The ratio for those is favour of reversing Brexit is very close to two to one now.
Support for rejoin can be as high as it wants to be. The bottom line is that Sir Keir has ruled it out. It’s not happening. He doesn’t want to lose Labour Red Wall votes.
I think people have to be realistic about these things. If they want to rejoin, vote for a party that will take us back in or at least are receptive of the idea of applying. That’s not Labour yet people want to vote for them. Pick your priorities.
All well and good but with a FPTP system you cannot vote for what you want and expect to get it. If we had PR then that would be a different story.
Why Labour will never support pr.
As far as I am concerned, the next GE will be the last time I vote Labour unless they announce PR as part of their manifesto. I can understand Starmer dodging on this next innings, but failing adding it to the next GE after would just mean we are on a circle jerk. I still remember Blair said he would move to PR when he was in office.
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leave it to the UK to create a system somehow less functional than the electoral college here in the US. Huzzah to the special relationship.
FPTP is exactly as dumb as the US election system, because it’s the same thing the US has.
Do people in the usa get taught anything about how various different kinds of democracies work in their mandatory schooling?
It’s confusing to me, as even in isolated old Australia we learn about different kinds of voting systems and republics vs monarchies etc.
In my area Labour won by 2000 votes at 18500. Tories came next and LD were third at just over 2500. How can I vote tactically against Labour?
“Sir”
I am pro rejoin, but calling Keir sir in this statement is a bit too much unless you are being ironic. So you say dame priti also?
Also funnily enough my phone suggested that Keith as autocorrect for keir :)
Sir Keith. I like it!
Or just “Cheggers” to his mates
I like Starmzy
Reverse Brexit
It doesn’t work that way. They have to apply for membership and go through the standard process. It’s not like they can snap their fingers and become a core member once again, until the next populist leader starts threatening to leave.
No one has said otherwise.
I’m pretty sure the EU would welcome the U.K. back - not easily, of course, lots of stuff to negotiate and I should think the EU would ask for guarantees that we would pay into the budgets for the next 25 years, no matter what happens.
I’m sure they’d be happy to let us keep the pound and stay out of Schengen.
But timing matters … first there’s a constitutional debate that the EU would want to settle before letting the U.K. back in and if they move to more qualified majority voting, it might be that the U.K. wouldn’t want to join after all.
The whole “ever closer union” bit seems to have been ignored by Britain, even when they first joined. Did we think those words meant nothing?
Pay in at standard rate no no more Thatcher rebate. But yeah can see Schengen opt out allowed and “join euro” clause written in such a way that it is “desire” or deliberately unmeatable precondition
However think we could move to some Norway or swiss model
Yeah of course we’d have to apply for membership again who said otherwise? The problem with your straw man arguement is you’re the only one making it. Everyone else is off busy having a different conversation which is actually connected in some way with things that have been said.
Sorry I’m American, but wouldn’t reverse Brexit just be Brentry??
Bre-entry, because they’ve already entered once.
Breverse course and Bre-enter.
Bre-brentry? David Brentry?
Breturn
Breenter
Breturn?
Bruturn
No no, the reverse of Brexit is Tixerb.
Nope, it would be BRilliant.
Breunification
Can they actually reverse it? Will the EU take them back?
Not reverse it but reapply for membership, that will of course be subject to veto!
It will come with a lot of prerequisites that will make the deal the UK previously had look like they had won a golden ticket
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Countries only have to have “plans” to eventually adopt the Euro. There’s no timeline on it, so they could say they intend to adopt it in 100 years and that would technically satisfy the requirements.
Sweden has “been in the process” of adopting the Euro for nearly 30 years now.
we added a euro sign to our localized computer keyboards, that has to count for something…?
Hey if it’s good enough for the EU then it’s good enough for me!
I like the setting an example take.
I know we were a bit of a pain in the arse at times (though I’d say, no more than some other countries which doesn’t seem to generate the same press or vitriol), but the EU would, in an ideal world, like us back. The chances of that happening are slim enough, swapping the £ for the euro would absolutely torpedo it.
That would probably be a good metric of how serious the will is for us to return, if the demands include losing our currency that to me would demonstrate that the talks are poisoned to fail.
if the demands include losing our currency that to me would demonstrate that the talks are poisoned to fail.
You mean, if the UK is treated fairly (like other countries) that means you don’t like it?
I can see why the EU was ok with the UK leaving. They’re a pain to deal with. I think they should wait ten years until prices go up for all goods from the EU, US, China, etc. because the UK has no muscle to negotiate trade agreements.
Then the UK will beg to be let in.
Negotiating trade agreements isn’t exactly a strength of the EU. It doesn’t have deals with China, India or even the US, for example. But it’s not like Chinese products are really expensive without one. In fact, the benefits are generally in the other direction — opening export markets for our products and services.
That’s because the WTO makes bilateral agreements less useful than before. But EU countries are represented individually and dually by the EU in WTO proceedings.
It’s much better to have dozens of friends backing you up in a dispute. There is no benefit and a major drawback to leaving. No one will stick up for you.
I certainly agree there are no benefits, but the whole debate around trade agreements is overblown on both sides. The UK is a service economy, and even within the EU itself there isn’t a single market for lots of services. The idea that either EU membership or Brexit can deliver meaningful trade benefits outside Europe is largely nonsense.
No, if I meant to say that, I’d have said it. Stop inventing things I said.
We want you guys back.
Although you’re a bit in shambles right now, you’re still a weight in economy and military that adds to the EU. All the more once you’re in better times. The more similiarly aligned countries, the better so we can actually stand next to the titans of the USA and China that we couldn’t stand up to alone.
But yeah, I don’t think you get your extra benefits back.
Exactly. The EU would be mad to allow us to return with all the same, very-favourable terms we had before!
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The EU will take the UK back. It has been said by a few. The UK will still have to go through a process. It will not be quick. I would not be surprised if the EU makes the first demand for us to have a new referendum. Just so they know we are not wasting their time.
Not just wasting their time - Brexit cost the EU time and effort and money as well. They’re not going to bother if the UK isn’t sincere.
Yeah I can’t imagine them treating the UK with any special consideration in their favor this time
Another non-binding referendum, but this time they actually don’t take action based on the vote.
Brea Culpa! This time, Britain gets to take up the Euro!
That’s what I’ve been saying and always get people yelling at me. Ask two questions “do you want to rejoin the EU?” and “are you willing to adopt the Euro and Schengen zone?” will yield two drastically different results.
As an American, I’d happily adopt the Euro and join the Schengen zone.
Apparently, that’s not an option for us, though ;)
Not something that would bother me.
Don’t expect Britain to return to EU in the next 50 years or so.
Make it more like 10 to 20 years
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Hahaha, I can see you are a man of culture
My body is ready? Can’t see the image
It’s should render as an embedded image. What Lemmy app are you using to view the post?
I’m using Sync
Maybe raise a bug? Sounds like it doesn’t handle images in markdown correctly. Looking at the issue tracker there’s a bunch of outstanding bugs around images in general.
Issue tracker for the app Sync for Lemmy …
https://github.com/laurencedawson/sync-for-lemmy
I’m using either the web or Jerboa or Lift Off depending on my mood and they all display images correctly.
Good luck 🤞.
Quite a lot of people are on the fence though.
That’s 37% of leave voters not of all voters.
The poll, carried out by the Times, showed that 37% of Leave voters believe Brexit has a been a failure, with just 20% saying it a success and 35% sitting on the fence.
Since the leave vote was 52% that is roughly half so 18% overall.
I was more thinking about the line on Tory voters at the end. 38% against, 22% for, leaving 40% on the fence.
Although, typing it out I just realised I did the maths wrong in my head. I thought it was 50%. Either way, it’s still a large portion of people undecided.
Current Tory voting intention is as low as 24% with some polling.
I’m guessing a significant[1] proportion would change their mind, when they see the kind of punitive conditions[2] the EU would probably impose on rejoining.
[1] enough to change the result of the second referendum, so >10%.
[2] worse than the previous ones.
The reason we had such a deal was because we had restrictions for not being a member of the Schengen or the Euro zone. If we rejoined the EU then joining Schengen and the Euro would be a prerequisite. This is the same for all new members of the EU. There would be no punitive conditions as the EU is based on everyone being equal.
B-b-b-ut if I don’t get special treatment, I’m being punished!
Again no. Because the UK was not part of Schengen or in the Euro zone we could not take on the presidency. Since we will not be joining under those conditions this time then that will not apply. EU rules state all new members must be in Schengen, and must also promise to implement a currency change to the Euro. The is no time frame attached to implementing the Euro.
I thought the /s was clear.
It’s ok, I’m sure Austria and The Netherlands will have UK’s back and just veto their Schengen joining ad infinitum for no apparent reason. As for the Euro, the UK can just pull a Sweden or purposefully maintain a highly variable exchange rate so as not to fulfill the requirements for joining the Eurozone.
Alternatively, pull a Denmark and peg it to the Euro and do some voodoo with interest rates when it’s in danger of changing parity outside the agreed upon limits. (Not sure if this is what pre-Brexit UK did?)
There will be a few that will make rejoining awkward for the UK. Notable Greece and Spain.
I am fairly sure there are consequences to peeing around with defined limits while in the Euro.
I think you:
a) misunderstand the EU’s incentives here - if a genuine supermajority in the UK came back asking to be let in, EU leaders have an incentive to make that happen easily as a signal of the total failure of Brexit and hard-line euroscepticism - the optics of the UK returning would be so good for the EU; and
b) overestimate the ‘punitive’ measures the EU could take - worst we would get is the sort of arrangement other EU states have such as hypothetical future euro membership that neither the UK nor rest of EU would have any more desire to implement than is the case for (e.g.) Poland or Hungary; they wouldn’t even need us to join Schengen because that actually would create the Irish hard border that the EU negotiations were all about avoiding (since Ireland isn’t a Schengen state).
Isn’t Ireland not a Schengen state just because of the Common Travel Area with the UK?
Conditions wouldn’t be punitive (are you sure that’s what you meant?). They would be the same as for everyone else, with some wiggle room for negotiations of course.
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