If you talk to most of my fellow micks, they’ll whinge and moan about Yanks ‘pretending’ to be Irish. They’ll take offence to it, like Irishness is little more than a fashion accessory to foreigners. They’ll say that such Yanks are annoying and will scold them online for saying “I’m Irish” when they’re several generations deep into being American.
Fuck all that noise. If someone wants to be associated with my wee island (and it is mine), I get a warm feeling in my chest like an internal hug. I don’t care if the person has never had a single ancestor so much as set foot on Ireland, if they nevertheless wanna be Irish I’m thrilled to hear it. It makes me less self-conscious about my shite accent, it makes me feel like I could have friends in other countries before I even meet them. It’s like a cheat code whereby I’m granted, up front and gratis, 30% of the required ‘social ingratiation’ mileage you usually need to put in before you start getting somewhere with a new friendship. There is literally no downside to it that I can see, and certainly no downside that has ever presented itself to me. The only way I could feel negatively about it is if I already have a casual hatred of Americans, which I don’t.
If you don’t believe that the cunty “ur not irish m8” attitude is borne of hatred for Americans, show me the reams of similarly-scolded Australians claiming Irishness. Show me the Iraqi with an Irish grandfather being told to shut the fuck up for claiming Irishness. Show me the hoards of Englishmen, even, being told the same. I have only ever seen or heard it directed at Americans.
The Australia example is much more powerful because it’s one of the two places Irish people tend to go when they leave the British Isles, the other being the USA. We have been going to Oz in droves - voluntarily or not - for about as long as the USA has existed, so we claim a huge portion of the populace. The USA is still a brand-new country, in the grand scheme of history, so there’re legit reasons for people to still feel like their families’ previous countries are the more defining ones for their identity. There’s nothing wrong with that. Unless you’re American, apparently.
In closing, let me talk directly to my fellow spud-botherers: please shut the fuck up. I assure you, between the scolding Irishman and the Irish-loving Yank who never shuts up about it, you are the annoying cunt in this scenario. You make Irish people sound like völkisch wankers obsessed with the purity of their genes and the ethnic make-up of their country. Spend less time gatekeeping national identity and more time on avoiding heart disease, ya greasy hoors.
Although I agree with you I feel this is a truly unpopular opinion. No one gate keeps quite like a European.
Lol, so true.
The best skewering of this arrogance I’ve ever heard/read, is a rant by Charlie (to Emily/Miss Barham) in “The Americanization of Emily”:
You American-haters bore me to tears, Miss Barham. I’ve dealt with Europeans all my life. I know all about us parvenus from the States who come over here and race around your old cathedral towns with our cameras and Coca-Cola bottles… Brawl in your pubs, paw your women, and act like we own the world. We over-tip. We talk too loud. We think we can buy anything with a Hershey bar. I’ve had Germans and Italians tell me how politically ingenuous we are. And perhaps so. But we haven’t managed a Hitler or Mussolini yet. I’ve had Frenchmen call me a savage because I only took half an hour for lunch. Hell, Miss Barham, the only reason the French take two hours for lunch is because the service in their restaurants is lousy. The most tedious lot are you British. We crass Americans didn’t introduce war into your little island. This war, Miss Barham, to which we Americans are so insensitive, is the result of 2,000 years of European greed, barbarism, superstition, and stupidity. Don’t blame it on our Coca-Cola bottles. Europe was a going brothel long before we came to town
The incessant hubris of OECD members (even American expats!) is tiresome. Britain, France and Spain royally fucked the rest of the world for a few hundred years - they should be continually apologizing for the shit show we have today because of them.
But we haven’t managed a Hitler or Mussolini yet.
Well…funny you should mention that…
No one gate keeps quite like a European.
This is why I find rioplatense people trying to claim to be european because 3 generations ago, their ancestors were in italy, spain or both.
yeah, countries that barely count as european, and your ass has been born in LATAM. STFU.
I love how you prove the point you were quoting. It’s very tidy.
You just ticked all the boxes for weirdo race supremacist.
Now look here I’ll have you know that my husband is exactly one generation too far separated to benefit.
If you don’t believe that the cunty “ur not irish m8” attitude is borne of hatred for Americans… Show me the hoards of Englishmen, even, being told the same.
Wait… the Irish hate Americans more than the English now? Daaaamn. I mean, not like we don’t deserve it, but so do they.
my shite accent
Americans fucking love an accent, especially English or Irish. You don’t have to worry about that, we’d eat it up. (Sorry for assuming gender and sexuality but) men would want to be your friend and women would want to be with you. You’d do great here.
It’s just that I find the heritage fetishism some Americans spew is a bit weird and overdramatized.
One of the problems in the US is a lack of temporal density. It hasn’t been here long enough to really have all that history. The people search for an identity elsewhere.
America is a nation of immigrants, from everywhere. In most countries, most people can trace the majority of their heritage to the region they were born in, back for hundreds of years.
I’m an American, I have one grandparent who I can trace back to the colonies. The other three lead to different countries within 150 years. Both of my paternal grandparents were immigrants, my wife is an immigrant. This isn’t uncommon at all in America, and the “heritage fetishism” just strikes me as an acknowledgement of this. People want to learn about their roots.
The Irish stuff specifically is a bit weird though.
My parents referred to my siblings and I as “ketchup kids” because we were a little bit of everything mixed together at some point, so even being as fully American melting pot as possible, there’s a heritage identity there. It’s just something we tend to be conscious of.
My step dad is Irish and was adopted here when he was 4, but that’s the only person in my family with a direct single ethnic lineage for at least two generations.
There’s definitely some heritage fetishism in the US especially around various holidays Americans associate with different cultures, but like OP said, the US is a relatively new and young nation in the grand scheme nations. Our national mythology is all about the different immigrants that came here and left their mark on the culture. As immigrants came over most of us had to hold onto the old country ties and connections, it’s why so many cities have a Chinatown or a Little Italy, and these places took traditions we had from the home country and adapted them to what was available.
We all have a general implicit understanding that were all Americans, but the lineage we trace our families back to is why we say “I’m (Heritage XYZ)”
As for a lot of the really weird stuff especially around holidays (Cinco de Mayo, St. Patrick’s day, etc) that’s mainly just an excuse to get drunk and party and is definitely pushed on by the entertainment and hospitality industries to make more money.
I’m German (via my great-great-great-grandmother) so things like that don’t bother me
The what’s your ancestry conversations white people have with each other are annoying. You ever hear a white person try to have this conversation with an African-American? I have. Yeah it was extremely cringe. Then there’s the claiming to be such percentage native. Somehow it’s always Cherokee. This shit kills me.
Try living in the US; you’ll change your tune. Piss boiled; take your upvote.
Tldr: thinking out loud about my relationship with Poland in a way that might be a cognate to how others feel about Ireland
Yeah, we Americans have an odd relationship with the countries our ancestors come from. My dad’s grandparents were all from the region now known as Poland. He was always fond of Polish foods, I think because that’s what he grew up with. His niece wore a borrowed traditional Polish dress for her confirmation. My aunts knit and are into Polish patterns. Lots of Polish love on that side of the family.
My mom’s family has been in Appalachia since the 1800s. That side brings in Hatfield and McCoy blood and carries on those traditions by being a disfunctional mess. I don’t associate with that side.
Given the choice, it feels better to lean into Polish stuff. Pierogi and cabbage+anything is a comfort food. Makes me feel closer to my dad. So, for me, it’s not about the country Poland. It’s about distancing myself from my asshole mom’s family and embracing my dad’s relatives.
I’ve never seen Australian do that like Americans do. We’re a multi-cultural country, they’re a melting-pot country. They stripped away all their culture to fit the soup, so they’re desperate to reclaim a connection to their heritage.
My parents are from Ireland, whenever someone asks where I’m from I’d say I’m Irish, but I’d never think of myself as Irish if that makes sense?
Honestly I don’t give a shit if Americans do it, but when they do shit like this I can’t help but cringe.
The one that fucks me off is when people are like “Sorry about that, us russians are hot blooded.” Or “I cant help myself around the ladies, its the latin blood” You’re both 3 generations deep, one of you is a sexist pig and the other is just an angry cunt.
Or people act like insert culture here has some mystical connection to food. You see it all the time on bullshit cooking shows “I’m blank so food is very important to me” or that because their great grandmother was Italian they have some innate gift for cooking pasta… like in the village of 200 families she was from there isnt a chance that your nonna was the worst cook in town.
Your second paragraph may as well be a quote from Anthony bourdain
I miss Anthony.
Upvoted as unpopular.
I feel like Americans handle heritage in a really weird way, as if it was the main (sometimes, sole) component of identity. In a way that I don’t see people in other places doing - not even places with heavy immigration, such as here in the Southern Cone.
Often putting those people into boxes. And expecting them to behave as someone who belongs to that box.
We are the only ones who put people into boxes……lol. I don’t think so. We also look at heritage in a specific at because we’re a country of immigrants with so many different backgrounds. So many of us search for history and belonging that we see in every other country.
We are the only ones who put people into boxes……lol. I don’t think so.
Please do not put words into my mouth. In no moment I said or even implied that only Americans put people into boxes.
Don’t you worry your accent is great and your whiskey is great but your beer is mid.
Okay this is extremely off topic and I’m sorry in advance.
so there’re legit reasons
I’m not looking it up but I’m pretty sure this is grammatically correct. But it feels so wrong. And yet I’m pretty sure I’ve said it a million times, just never read it.
You shouldn’t’ve mentioned it
There are legit reasons to mention it
Come to Newfoundland. As the one comedian says
Usually I have to dial the accent down a bit and try to talk like an American to be understood. There, I had to dial it UP.
I bet the accent’s not the only thing true to Kilkenny!
You stay where your too, I’ll come were yer at.
They’ve got one in Honolulu. They’ve got one in Moscow, too. There are four of them in Sydney, and a couple in Kathmandu. … Wherever you go around the world you’ll find an Irish Pub.
Go on and get fucked with your use of a term used to subjugate and lay claim to our lands and people.
No one cares about people claiming ancestry, people get annoyed when they act like it is a characteristic or set of stats you inherit.
As an ignorant person to this particular debate. What term are you referring to?
British Isles was a term pushed by the UK in order to aid their claim to our lands. We are no more part of the british isles than we are the south eatern icelandic archipelago.
micks
I got to go to Ireland last year. It was great. Everyone was lovely.
Except for the tiny roads, flanked by by penny walls with no shoulders, and traffic going 80kmh. That i didn’t love.
Everything else was awesome, though.
5 million odd people in Ireland but over 10 million Irish passport holders in the world.
More to do with Brexit I think
