The devices those users paid for? That should be illegal.
I’m pretty sure this won’t fly in court because this is a significant change to a product long after the product was purchased, which could potentially fly in the face of false advertising laws, since this “feature” was not advertised, and they’re not being denied access to a product they purchased. It’s clearly coercive.
However, this is the USA and stupider shit has happened. Judges here love to gargle corporate balls. See: Clearance Thomas.
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Oh, to be fair, I stole that from someone else. Similar story, don’t know if it was on purpose or on accident (didn’t ask). It’s fucking gold. Anyway, it was a random reddit comment deep in a thread, sorry I can’t credit them since I don’t recall their name.
Props for not claiming it anyways
“Roger Rodger”
“we’ve got clearance Clarence”
“What’s our vector victor?”From the movie airplane.
Also how would they prove the owner even saw the notice they supposedly agreed to? This is probably them testing the waters for something worse.
We have a couple of Rokus, but I haven’t seen the prompt yet. I’m thinking my 8 year old clicked through it. I wonder what situation that creates.
You didn’t consent and your child can’t.
In general, those terms and conditions are not enforceable, but that’s not why they exist. Roku knows that if they are challenged, they will probably not win in court, but it creates that first hurdle. It costs money to go to court and hire lawyers to make those arguments. And Roku is willing to pay more for lawyers, so maybe they do win. So for you, the little guy, how much can you afford to spend on a case where you might lose?
Same.
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The point is that few have the money to prove this.
When are we gonna finally nail companies for using underhanded and coercive tactics with consumers?
Oh, never? Okay then.
When we make lobbying illegal in
this countrythe United StatesEurope is doing it. Look at Apple vs Spotify, as well as Apple forced to open their app stores to 3rd parties. Those are consumer oriented laws. In the USA, lobbying prevent those from happening.
And until the EU starts playing hardball, they’ll continue to engage in malicious compliance (literally how they’ve responded to the DMA so far). Time will tell if the EU actually has the balls for this.
The DMA took effect since yesterday I think and the fine for it was like up to 20% of global revenue if I remember correctly. The EU has enforced GDPR very well so far so I don’t doubt them enforcing this.
Tbh I don’t see why we would need much balls for this. There are plenty of alternatives in case Apple or whoever decides to pull out. Besides slight inconvenience there’s not that much reason to keep dancing to the fiddle of foreign companies.
US: best we can do is a other corporate tax cut
Tbf Biden is currently campaigning on raising corporate taxes and the top tax bracket. To actually get anything done though, Democrats would have to take back the house.
Not a lawyer, but 99.9999% sure this violates the CFAA. Correct me if I’m wrong? Would t even matter if they included it in EULA or something, ‘no reasonable person…’
This has class action lawsuit written all over it.
There will certainly be many lawsuits about it, no doubt. They e shot themselves in the foot for no reason here. What a dumb move.
There should be a law that any change of T&C after the purchase of a product gives the customer the option to refuse the terms and get a full refund of that product, no matter how old it is.
I have a smart light switch I can’t use anymore because they updated the app to force you to make an account to use it and I refused since it worked fine for the last 3 years without them needing to sell my data.
If the firmware on the switch hasn’t been updated to not function with old versions of the app why not just snag an old APK and use the old app version?
At least as long as you own the thing, worth a shot
I do believe it was. It was a TP Link smart switch and it routinely needed updates or else it wouldn’t work. The app was finicky as hell before and I don’t really care anymore for it since it’s main use was to turn on the bedroom lights automatically. But now I work 2nd shift so the sun is up anyway when I wake up. It works as a normal switch now.
Easier to replace the light switch at that point
It’s… really not that hard.
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Uninstall the new app, download the old app from https://www.apkmirror.com/ (which is basically an archive of most apps downloadable from Google Play).
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Use an app like APK signer to change the app’s “signature” so it doesn’t automatically update.
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Install it.
It takes like 10 minutes at most.
I did exactly this with the Discord app last year when they suddenly changed the app’s entire layout.
I love discord’s new layout, did you give it a chance?
What I’m talking about was when they changed the Android app to behave more like the iOS app. It was a buggy mess when it first launched. It’s much better now, though. I’ve since updated my app to the current version.
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Especially for physical goods.
Well, my next tv won’t have a Roku in it. I was just about to buy one, and if anyone here has any advice on a dumb TV with no built-in smart features, I would really appreciate some suggestions. They’re surprisingly difficult to find nowadays. I’m looking for some thing 43 inches or smaller, 4K or 1080, and nothing special. Preferably very cheap.(I’m poor)
Maybe just buy a monitor, particularly if you only need streaming.
I use my “smart” tv as a monitor to stream. It has never connected to the internet and it does not pester me.
This is the real answer. If you don’t have any benefit from connecting it to the Internet, don’t. Use a separate device for streaming, if you have to. I guess Apple TV or NVIDIA Shield, or Chromecast? I need to look into the benefits, but I don’t want to support Roku anymore…
This may be the best advice, esp since I only need small and dumb.
Smart TVs are usually sold at a loss because they expect to make the money back through ads, so if you never connect one to the internet in the first place, you get a cheap decent TV and you cost these cockroaches money
I have heard that you can’t just choose to not connect it, you actually have to route it to a dead end like a pihole. Supposedly some of these smart TVs will make you think you were allowed to bypass completely but have just connected to the nearest unsecured network.
Not an issue for people who have no neighbors, but people who live in a suburb or city?
I’m not sure about generally, but on Roku specifically, the first step is to kick it off your network. I Mac address banned mine because it was connected to wireless. Then I could use the menus. I used them to factory reset the TV. During the reset process you hit “do this later” on anything that is trying to get you to connect to the Internet. Afterwards, you’ve got a plain dumb TV.
Thank you so much for this walk through.
I’ve heard that too. I’ve also verified that the only unsecured network in range is my own mobile hotspot, and never once seen my TV (or anyone else’s in my apartment building) connect to it. We really need to stop saying that this is a thing that’s happening when the only evidence for it is “someone somewhere said it once”
Well, if its that simple I won’t have to worry when I upgrade next year.
Definitely not at a loss. Just with a smaller margin.
My setup is a Samsung that doesn’t have WiFi setup. It supports HDMI CEC, as does my game console and streaming box, so I basically never touch the TV remote. It’s effectively a dumb monitor.
I mostly stream via my Xbox and AppleTV since they’re performant systems.
It’s effectively a dumb monitor.
I may be old-fashioned but that’s the only thing a TV is supposed to be. You choose how to use it by its periphery.
I know smart TVs get a lot of shit here, but I get the desire to have one remote, no need to configure a universal remote, and no need to manage inputs.
Personally, I think HDMI CEC is the best way to simplify remotes and input management, but I can understand why my folks would not even want to think about external devices and would want to buy one rectangle that has all the things in it already, including an app for their cable channels.
It’s an appealing user experience proposition, but it’s often executed poorly, and creates more e-waste.
Most LGs can be set up without internet at all.
My fucking Samsung Refrigerator refused to cool until I paired it to a mobile app. It wasn’t even one of those fancy tablet screen ones. It beeped at me for hours until I had the time to figure out wtf was wrong with it.
That’s insane. I know it’s a ball ache to move them but I’d have taken that thing right back and gotten a refund.
Yeah, I would have to if I had chosen it, but it was probably the cheapest stainless steel they carried in that size. Landlord replacement when the last fridge crapped out
He can pair it to the phone app or whatever on his device then; his fridge, his problem.
Scepter seems to be the well recommended budget option
How are they with longevity? Like, if they only last 2-3 years, is there a reliable date I can know they’ll die on? That’s good to know.
Like, a lot of TCLs have a hard 3-year life. It’s good to know what you’re buying.
I have a Sceptre tv. I use it as a TV and computer monitor. I don’t remember exactly when I bought it, but it has been at least several years-maybe a decade, and it works great.
The only issue is I think I damaged the screen slightly a year or two ago while cleaning. Most of the time the damage isn’t visible and is very small, so I don’t worry about it. Well…and I had to replace the remote once as some buttons stopped working properly. Otherwise I have been using it without problem.
Rtings is a good site for tv reviews across a wide range of price levels. I’ve used several their reviews to make purchases and have been satisfied thus far.
Wonder what their top dumb TV is besides their top budget models:
Hmm, even their monitor TVs seem to all be smart whether $300 or $1000.
Any TV is dumb, if you don’t connect it to the net
Unfortunately I’ve seen a few recent TVs that constantly pester you to connect it to the internet. TV makers are trying to crush that.
Commercial display TVs. They are dumb TVs with modern displays.
I tried to find one without Smart TV features and they do exist, just not at the mid tier and above and not from any mainline brands. Good news is, at the low tier you might have some luck. I’m personally getting an LG, but I heard WebOS is easy to root so I won’t have those Roku problems.
Shit happened to me yesterday. Pissed me off. Bought this TV years ago and suddenly I can’t use it until I accept their new arbitration shit. I’m building a stream box and disabling the internet on this thing. I’m sick of ads anyway.
Do it, its worth the effort
Build a Plex/Jellyfin server while you’re at it
I have no idea how US contract law works. Even if you agree to something that says “we can alter the deal at any time”, when a change happens to the deal, don’t both sides have to benefit, rather than “agree to this change so that you can keep the same thing you had before”?
I honestly think a lot of these terms of service agreements are legally unenforceable, but they don’t get contested in court very often.
Like if they say “you consented to the arbitration agreement” I could just argue I never physically signed anything and it was actually my 5 year old who agreed so he could watch TV.
But don’t you see, the consumer surely benefits. After agreeing they get to continue using their tv under our new and wonderful terms of service. /s
Hadn’t actually thought about this but it’s a good point, they are varying the T&Cs with no consideration here.
When are the users taking them to court. These guys aren’t Nintendo so I expect them to have to fuck themselves.
I expect them to have to fuck themselves
Damn I love that for some reason. Thanks for a giggle
if we could afford to sue them, we would.
My kid consented. I think. Can she make binding contracts that she doesn’t tell me about because she’s looking for Blues Clues, or am I responsible for every OK she checks when I’m not present?
I let my cat step on the remote. Fucker doesn’t pull his weight, so if the lawyers come after him he’s on his own.
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“Am I legally liable or is logic to be applied here”
Oh c’mon, apply some logic, you know logic won’t be applied, money will.
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So legally speaking, what happens if it was my 8 year old son, who clicks buttons with no regard for human life, that agreed to this BS TOS? How is that legally binding?
Yeah, this is really dumb. There’s no way they can prove the owner clicked on it and they can’t hold anyone else to the terms.
It isn’t, an 8 year old can’t be held to a contract like this. IANAL.
Yeah our special needs child didn’t have much to say about the new terms. He probably didn’t read the whole thing though
did you ASK him if he read the entire thing?
NO- you just assumed he didn’t. He’s probably up in his bedroom thinking about them terms right now
You know what. Pirate everything.
With jod as my witness, I will download a tv.
There is no doubt I would download a tv/car/house if I could.
My in-laws have all Roku tvs. I had to go over and “fix” the TV’s for them cause they didn’t understand what the hell this was. I straight up just gave them my modded Nvidia shields and bought myself some more. Fuck that shit. We need a better open source tv like interface. I’ve used plasma big screen but it’s not ready for normal people with not Linux but fixing experience.
What does a moded Nvidia shield give you? Is it rooted or something else. I’m curious because I have been looking at them as a replace for Chromecast android tv
Maybe modded is the wrong word. They’re rooted with a different launcher and my pihole does it’s best to block telemetry. Getting rid of the Google launcher with ads on it is a major improvement.
Ah, that’s awesome. If you have any howtos to share i would be ever so greatful.
I have pihole also doing its best to block everything it can
Thank you
You don’t need root to change the launcher? You can simply install launcher manager and the custom launcher (wolf or whatever), and set it through there.
I’m usually rooting all my android devices, but the shield is the first one where I didn’t see a need for it.
Enshittification continues. I used to evangelize roku bc I want a dumb TV. I guess that’s no longer valid.
Dude it’s a terms of service update, it’s not like watching ads on a subscription you already pay for.
The terms of service update made you sign away your rights to sue the company if they refused to honour the warranty, that’s what people are upset about
I know, I read it, and those words mean absolutely nothing. You and I will never be affected by it. It’s like a random passerby waving sage at you and telling you they’ve disturbed your aura.
I promise you practically every TOS you’ve ever blindly clicked through said something very similar.
You are downvoted, but you are right that at least some do this
ToS are generally not binding as it’s not expected for the average person to actually read through the dense language. There is precedent for this
Between this and Amazon’s recent nonsense with Firetv I think next time I’ll just buy a generic Android box or something, maybe even a mini PC.
I spend the last couple weeks looking Into modded boxes and anti ad options and I came to the conclusion that a mini pc with wireless keyboard and mouse is the way to go. No special nonsense required. It’s super easy to just find whatever I wanna watch online for free anyways and I don’t need any special program or knowledge.
Now my next issue is between finding a dumb TV or a solid affordable projector. I mostly use the TV for movie nights anyways, I game on my pc and watch most stuff on my pc too.
The main problem with a mini PC is a lot of streaming services won’t serve you 4k content. Not an issue if you get your content from other sources though.
😎😉
Yeah I’m leaning that direction but I’m also quite attracted to whatever the newest raspberry pi can do.
Mini PC might be easier but yeah I think either way a sbc will be my choice whether it’s a Ryzen sbc or something else like a raspberry pi I’m honestly not sure.
Can state for a fact it won’t be any amazon or roku device but that’s about all.
This is the best summary I could come up with:
Roku users around the country turned on their TVs this week to find an unpleasant surprise: The company required them to consent to new dispute resolution terms in order to access their device.
The terms, of course, include a forced arbitration agreement that prevents the user from suing or taking part in lawsuits against Roku.
This requires anyone with legal complaints to take them to Roku lawyers first, who will conduct a “Meet-and-Confer” call and then “make a fair, fact-based offer of resolution” that will no doubt be generous and thoughtful.
I try to opt out of these when I can, and after reading the terms (to which, of course, by “continuing to use” my TV, I had already agreed), I found that you could only do so by mailing a written notice to their lawyers — something I fully intended to do today.
Though in retrospect, I — and literally every single user of your company’s services — would have preferred a straightforward electronic opt-out instead of this dishonest ploy to increase friction and further coerce adoption of these terms.
Don’t delay; otherwise, when people sue them over how they held devices hostage in order to coerce them into consumer-hostile dispute resolution terms, you won’t be able to join in on the fun.
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