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Every analysis of war between NATO and Russia and/or China will fundamentally result in a NATO loss because those countries would not be the ones trying to conquer people on the other side of the planet.
By the time they get involves fully this shit may well turn into a nuclear confrontation. No one wins those
The planet Earth will. Eventually. Maybe a better species will rise to the top next time.
Yeah any catastrophe like climate change etc… The earth will survive. The current inhabitants on the other hand…
corrected: right now NATO is losing a war with Russia
They are already fighting a war and losing. If european states mobilize now they will collapse more than they are doing now.
I think so as well, the public in Europe does not want to fight Russia and the economic situation just keeps getting worse which is delegitimizing the liberal regimes.
And every time they yell about the threat of Russia everyone has to wonder “haven’t they’ve been telling me Ukraine killed all of them every month for the past two years”.
Like, how are Europeans getting poorer and poorer while Russia keeps getting stronger in the middle of a war they supposedly lost within the first week?
Russia exists in a quantum superposition state of being both strong and weak depending on which narrative is needed at the time.
“Winning a war” with Russia from the NATO perspective is a task that would require every NATO member to engage in a total war that would wipe out a large portion of Eastern Europe.
There are NATO members who would balk at this immediately such as Turkey. There are NATO members who would be blood thirsty and balk at this once the war started, and Russia became a real threat (rather than imagined) inside their borders, which is almost every Eastern European and Nordic Country.
I cannot see Norway going to war with it’s neighbor at the behest of America.
As a Norwegian, Norway is the 6th biggest weapon producer in the world, and supplies a third of all NATO ammunitions, from bullets to grenades to shells.
Our weapons industry alone makes us a critical target in any eventual war. And with american interference, Norway is absolutely guaranteed to be levelled to the ground.
We are so incredibly fucked, yet the average norwegian is too fucking propagandised to see it. I often hear “duuh, we’ll fight them in the mountains”
Like, motherfucker, the russians aren’t coming for our nature scenery.
The nazis burned down all of northern Norway when they retreated from Russian attacks.
Yanks will flatten the entire country to deny land to the russians.
We are absolutely fucked.
We are so incredibly fucked, yet the average norwegian is too fucking propagandised to see it. I often hear “duuh, we’ll fight them in the mountains”
Every Nord and Finn thinks they can be Simo Hayha but the majority live in completely urbanized environments and haven’t had to deal with the harsh realities of country life. But, yeah, you’ll survive the mountains buddy.
The “international” community keeps pointing out how underdeveloped Russia is, as if having labor aristocracy soldiers is better than having ones that had to chop wood at grandma’s house to keep the temps above 40 because grandma refused to leave her village.
The “rich countries” have a really fucking warped view of war.
Yeah, Russia couldn’t even defeat Ukraine who has zero F-35s in service. And the US alone has 700+ F-35 state-of-the-art stealth bombers with the radar cross section of a SMALL BIRD.
Ukraine looks pretty defeated to me. The difference is that Russia isn’t indiscriminately destroying every living think in Ukraine, they could have certainly leveled Kyiv in the first week if they were using US tactics.
Their war doctrine is also fundamentally different. Their goal is to grind down the AFU into collapse. At that point there won’t be a critical mass of people left in Ukraine who are willing to fight. And this necessarily takes time to do. US likes to do flashy shock and awe but then they have no plan for how to actually control the country after, hence why all their occupations end in utter disaster.
strategically the US benefits by creating chaos and disaster, particularly in the mid east. it allows easier control of petroresources through divide and conquer. america doesn’t suffer from being next to an open geopolitical wound - other nations do. I don’t think it’s accurate to describe previous US occupations as disasters, at least not strategically.
russia is in a different position - they have invaded a country right next door to them. it is in their strategic interest not to make ukraine a failed state. they still might, but their strategic interests are different.
It’s true the incentives for the US are different, and a lot of people line their pockets from the forever wars. They’re disasters for US as a country, but not for the oligarchs responsible for creating these disasters.
They aren’t disasters in the short term, but long term every one of those has resulted in a huge wave of service members that come back heavily radicalized or very mentally ill or both, not to mention the anti Americanism that becomes mandatory in whatever political organism takes control after the US has to retreat.
Yeah but all that chaos is good for the GDP so they love that shit.
Not only do you have to cut that number in half and then by 75% for what would actually be war ready at any given moment. The F-35 is not a bomber, it’s a multi-role combat aircraft, and a stealth strike fighter, which means they’re a one and done type of air to surface attack. JDAMs, JSTOWs, Paveways, and some laser guided Cluster Munitions that can fit on the F-35 can be intercepted with easier than the plane itself which is a choice. JDAMs and JSTOWs cannot aimed while in flight, they’re pre-aimed. So if you have mobile air defense it’s pointless. The laser guided stuff is very slow. In practice F-35s would be used to maintain air superiority to protect MQ-9 Reapers from air to air interception. Reapers are extremely vulnerable to SAM missiles, the Houthis have taken them down.
The reason that America is mad about Iskander is because mid-range ballistic missiles and cruise missiles which Russia has spent more time developing are emerging as a way to breach air defenses in modern warfare as well as loitering drones. America doesn’t have enough cheap swarm tech ready to go because we get milked by the MIC so we don’t have anything to pad out missile barrages to attempt to get enemies to make unforced errors in targetting. That’s precisely how Russia is getting past the magical Patriots impervious air defense shield in Ukraine.
America would have trouble maintaining NATO bases in Europe as a springboard because Russia would throw meat at every country it was at war with. Also Putin would 100% pull the trigger on launching ICBMs with MIRVs if an overwhelming conventional force was at his doorstep.
Beyond that the trick to defeating Americans is to take out their range extension which at “bombing Russia distances” is typically gigantic refueling planes. Russia or China out of all countries would be best equipped for this task.
And just like a small bird, they often suddenly stop flying
Small birds are much better at landing, though.
7/10 but I want to see how they perform in the synchronized diving
Oh yeah the Ghost of Kievyviv personally killed every Russian pilot ever
Ukraine has no air force left, it’s been reduced to begging for cast-off early gen 4 fighters from around the world just to maintain some semblance of an air force. It was clear from the outset how crippled their airforce was: when Russia outran their supply lines and ended up stuck in some huge hundred mile long convoy, there were exactly zero air attacks on it, even though a pair of Su-25s would have fucking mulched that line
What are you even talking about
I wonder how they match up against the su 35/57
F-35’s only real advantage is the stealth. Other than that, with only a single engine they are completely outmatched by Su-35/57. If they are exposed by powerful ground-based radars, then they’re practically sitting ducks.
The Su-57M with the new Russian made Saturn AL-51F-1 engines (to be deployed in 2025) will have the capacity to super-cruise at Mach 2. The F-35 cannot super-cruise and can only exceed Mach 1 for a limited time with afterburner.
At twice the speed and twice the range of F-35s, once detected, the Su-57Ms will be able to close in on the F-35s at 700km/h! If it gets to this point, there is nothing the F-35s can do against the Russian planes - they have to stay invisible throughout.
Sheesh and the f 35 range is already insane. Thats crazy.
and the ability to kamakazi into the ground
“right now” lol. in a few months they will not even be able to start one,
I’m all for avoiding a nuclear holocaust, so I definitely hope there will be an outbreak of common sense in the west.
only thing people in the west will universally be vaxxed for
😬
So perhaps this is the time to have an honest conversation about the future of NATO, and to ask two questions. How do we return to the sustainable peace in Europe that all sides to the conflict seek? Is NATO the primary obstacle to this sustainable peace?
I fucking wish but I see absolutely no path to this.
I kind of think there is a path there and ironically Trump is helping midwife the process. NATO can only exist if Europe is convinced that the US will back them. Trump is openly hostile towards the EU, he’s gonna tariff the fuck out of them, and start doing all kinds of economic coercion. Meanwhile, the Atlanticist politics in Europe are already collapsing. We see huge opposition growing in France, Germany, Romania, Czech Republic, Slovakia, Hungary, etc. I expect that these two factors combined will ultimately result in NATO falling apart, and Europe creating a new security architecture with Russia. The reality is that most people in Europe do not want to fight Russia, and once Ukraine gig is up the whole EU project will come crashing down.
