Donald Trump has suggested large numbers of Palestinians should leave Gaza to “just clean out” the whole strip, after ordering the US military to restart shipments of 2,000lb bombs to Israel.
The US president said he wanted Gaza residents to move to neighbouring nations, and that they could be displaced “temporarily or could be long-term”, after a phone call with Jordan’s King Abdullah on Saturday.
“I said to him: I’d love you to take on more because I’m looking at the whole Gaza Strip right now and it’s a mess, it’s a real mess. I’d like him to take people,” Trump said, when asked about the call.
He also suggested Egypt as a destination for Gaza residents, and said he would raise the issue with President Abdel Fatah al-Sisi on Sunday.
Protest voters looking more and more stupid by the day. And will continue to do so every day for the next 4 years minimum.
Wonderful. Nothing like the US backing state sponsored terrorism. Not that it’s anything new…
WHERE ARE ALL THE GENOCIDE JOE BOTS AT??? Fucking idiots, I can’t believe people got swayed by such obvious propaganda into not voting.
And that’s why Kamala’s stance on Palestine never bothered me.
I knew that as bad as it was, Trump would be worse.
I was right.
Reeeeeeeeeally hard to stop my self from screaming “I fucking told you so” to all the idiots who insisted Trump would be better for the situation right now
This is literally the exact thing I’ve been trying to point out for months
Nobody I know thought Trump would be better for Gaza. Just that Genocide is the worst situation and it was already being ignored.
But now we get more death! Immigrants, trans people, FEMA, it’s like a Gatcha game of who else gets to suffer. We really taught them a lesson
The dem leadership knew the whole time exactly how to win the election but werent willing to pay the price in thwarting AIPAC to secure that win. All they had to do was recognize the genocide a few days before the election and follow existing laws on it, and acknowledge that many Americans are struggling. They chose to roll the dice instead.
I pointed this out to a dem apologist on bluesky and their response was that ending the genocide on its own wouldn’t have won the election.
Motherfucker, what?! Quite apart from the fact that ending a genocide shouldn’t be evaluated on how likely it is to win an election, it is the right thing to do and it would have helped.
But the dems decided that continuing the genocide was more important than improving their chances of beating Trump. Assuming they believe what we were told that Trump would be worse at the genocide, that means the dems decided to continue the genocide and also risk worse genocide. So they just chose genocide.
And now people are still trying to get up on their high horses about this shit.
Next time they say that stupid shit, share things like this with them:
https://www.dropsitenews.com/p/kamala-harris-gaza-israel-biden-election-poll
“I did not pull the lever in the trolly problem and it was the dems fault”
If you’re willing to let one group be subject to genocide, then all groups are eligible. You know how it goes, “first they came for[…]”
Are you suggesting we should just go for a speedrun through the list, then?
No, I’m saying that we shouldn’t be okay with giving up one group while trying to use the rest of the groups as a shield for excusing genocide.
But… I’m not okay with giving up one group, nor excusing genocide. We must be having two different discussions, because I got the impression you were advocating for simply rolling over and giving up.
What I was getting at is that participating in an immoral system, only inasmuch as wasting a little time to vote for a lesser evil, can help us achieve our aims when taking action outside the ballot box. It’s easier to fight genocide against one group than genocide against many groups, right?
Why have to bother yourself with harm reduction when you can choose to do nothing and passively allow things to get worse? That would be asking too much.
Maybe geopolitics is more complicated than the anti-Kamala protest voters have been lead to believe…
It certainly is. Unfortunately for all of us, it’s more complicated than the Dems and “lesser of two evil” voters (of which I was one) have been lead to believe as well.
Or they would have… you know… Won.
But hey, if we want to learn the wrong lesson from this again, far be it from me to stop us.
If your “complicated” world view means justifying genocide then it’s just a justification of murder.
Who did you vote for who wasn’t justifying a genocide?
Edit: Worth noting, 17 downvotes at this time, yet not a single reply with a candidate who wasn’t “justifying a genocide”.
Oh they both were, I’m just being real about what that means.
Gotcha, so you voted for one anyway?
I did
A lot of people here on lemmy believe fiercely that both sides were equally bad about it, and it is exactly that sentiment that led to 6.6 Million former DNC voters staying home while a fascist took power.
What pisses me off is even if they WERE equally bad about it, trump is clearly worse on a dozen other extremely important issues. So why throw away all of that for a single issue? If “genocide” is the thing, what about caring about Ukrainians? Central and South Americans and LGBT in the US? Poor, disabled people and veterans? Wildlife? Children who live near industry? Why throw all those people under the bus while getting someone who is the same or worse about Palestine? It makes no sense.
In the swing states the economy did actually poll higher among people who stayed home. Gaza polled highest nationwide but ultimately would not matter until Michigan. She lost because she let corporate advisors run 140+ different messages instead of focusing on the few issues that people cared about.
I haven’t seen polls specifically for people who stayed home, but anybody who voted Trump over the economy is just really really dumb.
The idea that republicans have ever been better economically is absurd. They tend to drive the country into the ground by letting rich people fuck everyone over, then there’s some sort of crisis and bailout, then we get Democrats who fix it while being blamed for the republican’s mishaps.
There was one that went around Lemmy for a minute.
Which could’ve been avoided if Harris had taken a stronger stance on Gaza.
Like what? Negotiating peace while keeping Israel as a strong militaristic ally in the middle east is the only option for the DNC. If I were running the show I would depose Netanyahu and reorganize Israel military, but if I ran for US president on that platform I’d get fuck all for votes just like Bernie Sanders did in the primaries.
Israel Militaristic ally is just another statement that hold no value at all.
US have multiple bases in Jordan with strong ties. Strong relationship with Egypt, Massive base in Qatar, strong ties to Saudi Arabia and United Arab Emirates.
Pretending US need Israel is just a lie. They can literally make it another state and it would be much better option for Palestinians than current situation.
That’s great but a single politician doesn’t get to make that choice for the US. That’s the idiotic thing of blaming all of this on Biden or Harris. Israel is supported financially and in anything they do by 95% of the US political establishment.
Egypt doesn’t even have a strong relationship with itself right now, and most of your list has closer relationships with Iran, Russia, and China. Hell, one of the most adversarial nation in the region, Iran, have been accused of being too friendly with the USA by Saudi Arabia leading to strained relationships.
Here is a picture of Jordan’s King Abdullah II visiting the Kremlin in person.
This is a proxy war. Nobody is really on anybody else’s side unless they’re surrounded by enemies and desperate for aid. Israel is that ally. Even Afghanistan turned out to be more against than they were with the USA.
I want it to change, I really do, I think there is an avenue for peace some day, but as it stands right now doing nothing will result in more bloodshed than propping up a bad ally and minimizing the harm they do.
Yeah, no what led to 13 million (not 6 million) former DNC voters staying home was:
- Being lied to & gaslit about Biden’s condition.
- Kamala hiding from interviews where she might get asked tough questions.
- Kamala sending out Mark Cuban to tell everyone how much she loved big corporations.
- Kamala claiming she couldn’t think of anything she’d do different than Biden, other than having a Republican in her cabinet… while parading around with Liz Cheney & praising Dick Cheney.
- Spending 2 billion on her campaign, giving a lot of it to right-wing networks for advertising despite them overwhelmingly supporting Trump & to people like Oprah & Al Sharpton to pretend that they were giving fair interviews.
- Attacking other progressive candidates, like when she endorsed & paid for the ads to go after Jill Stein.
So which of those is worth letting Trump get elected over?
2020 total votes for Biden 81,283,501
2024 total votes for Harris 75,017,613
So I was actually over, the real difference was 6.27 Million.
I said DNC voters, not Biden voters. Semantics though. The point is that “she makes me feel joyful” wasn’t enough for people to stomach genocide & neocons.
“I don’t want many many more women and children to burn to death trapped under rubble while their families watch” should have been more than enough for people to stomach another Harris administration.
Democrat: “Trump is killing more of you than Biden isn’t he?”
Palestinian: “No, there is a ceasefire now. We are safer than we were under Biden at the moment. We hope that Trump doesn’t help kill 70,000 of us like Biden did.”
Democrat: “No I said he’s killing more! You must be one of those Russian Palestinian Nazis!”
Palestinian: “Are you okay? Do you need a doctor?”
Democrat: “FU Palestinians! I hope he kills way more!”
Genocide is the worst situation
Very obviously a false dichotomy.
Do you think Palestinians wanted Trump to win?
They want peace. Harris made no move to say she would stop the genocide.
A lame deflection.
You talked about what they wanted. They do not care who the president of the United States is. They care about peace.
“Peace” isn’t really an objective given that you’d have Peace the day after you ground palestinians into the dust.
Netanyahu certainly cares who the president of the United States is, who do you think he wants to be president?
By you, yes. Palestinians knew they didn’t want Harris to win. Guess next time you’ll support their candidate, Jill Stein, if you actually care about what they want.
they didn’t want Harris to win.
Oh, silly me. So they wanted Trump to win?
No, Kamala & the establishment left wanted Trump to win. Palestinians wanted Jill Stein, an actual progressive that fought for them.
Trump is worse for saying the quiet part out loud, but the actions by all administrations since the establishment of israel show that this plan by israel is being followed regardless of what the president says out loud.
Because trump is more vocal, resistance and people could better predict what he could do and try to organize and find way to stop him even partially
I don’t think that matters. Israeli officials themselves have said their plans out loud. It’s already well known that they’re going for a full ethnic cleansing which includes genocide and mass relocation because they want all of Palestine and more (which they refer to as “Greater Israel”). There have been some actions taken, including by the ICC (which Biden wrote off as “outrageous”) and all those student protests which were forcibly silenced. Ultimately we need someone with power to do something. Trump certainly won’t do anything to stop it, in fact he openly encourages it. Sadly democrats won’t do anything either, even if they’re more silent on the subject or let a small handful of democrats speak out a bit (but not too much, or they get censured).
The US is the biggest power behind Israel and no one dares stand up to the US. If both of the biggest parties (and only ones that will ever get any power) agree to not do anything to stop it, then it will just continue getting worse and worse.
Yemen dared. Freedom fighter dares. But it is easy to call them terrorist while killing at least 100k mostly kids and children.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/israel-gaza-palestinians-concept-paper-1.7015576
The plan was always their. They would get away with it even if it was biden or harris would won
It was Israel’s plan yes, not official us policy like now.
What would you make think biden or harris would have blocked such a plan?
Maybe the fact that the Biden administration withheld 2000 lbs bombs from Israel and Biden repeatedly cussed Netanyahu out over the phone? Maybe because the genociders backed the Trump presidency fiercely?
Btw those held weapons shipments were happily continued by Trump earlier.
I mean the real question is, yes, genocide doesn’t stop either way. But which option lends itself to less oppression of minorities in the US itself? I mean if both sides genocide, but one genocidal side doesn’t want to fuck over trans people, but wouldn’t you choose the side that doesn’t fuck over trans people?
The trans bans are just a test as they work their way toward Hispanic, Muslim, and eventually everyone without a red hat on bans.
Because they already were. Only siths and maga deal in absolutes. Which are you?
They never was. Every time the US say to Israel to not do something Israel does it and then the US give them more bomb and aids and diplomatic protection.
The copium is thinking that Biden,harris and trump wouldn’t try to outcompete each other is supporting Isrsel
Can we keep this cringe Funkopop liberalism on Reddit please.
It’s called objectivity sweetie and I’m an anarchist ✌️
you shouldnt start calling people “sweetie” or this devolves into a slapfight.
That what you want? To shut conversation down? And for an “anarchist” you sure are bending over to DNC corporatist hierarchy. Little bit suspicious.
Maybe he is someone who saw this last loss coming and sees further losses coming unless the dems can start doing the right thing again and adopting an actual effing platform that people will vote for. Remember doing the right thing? When did you abandon the idea of pressuring our leaders to do the right thing?
Because it’s the cowards way out at the expense of the Palestinians. Doubt there’ll be much left by next cycle
Oh?
So you’re ready to disavow Bidens support for zionists and agree that it was and is wrong, and that we cant support anyone who does that anymore?Welcome to the new democratic party, brother. Grab a shovel, theres a lot of corrupt DNC trash to haul to the curb for garbage collection.
You think Joe Biden who said that he was a fervent Zionist and that nobody in US history been more of an ally to Israel than him, and Kamala Harris who basically said she’d do everything he would have done, we’re going to reign in Israel? Good Lord man there’s a difference between optimism and naivete and you have crossed it.
And yet, it got much worse almost instantly. Weird that.
Is there a difference?
Actually, yes. For the Palestinians anyway.
They can still argue that situation is better now but it depends upon a very specific meaning of “better” that doesn’t consider the Palestinian people’s welfare at all.
Saying, “I told you so” has zero effect. This people didn’t reason themselves into their positions and will refuse any reason that would cause them to change their minds.
It was clear months ago these were smart people. Their utter lack of doubt continues to be the reddest of flags.
Good point; The message may be undercut by the grammar. Effect is a noun/adjective. Affect is a verb/adverb.
Disregard if you were actually trying to state that the concept of the number zero goes out and affects people in some unspecified way whenever that statement is spoken.
How would Kamala have been better for Palestine?
This is the 7th time you’ve commented this extremely low effort comment making ZERO points at all.
You’re a real piece of shit. You genocided palestine. You bastard.
Biden and netanyahu genocided palestine. That is my point. How is this worse than that. You know I’m right so you don’t even have an argument.
He secured a ceasefire, which is more than Biden could do. But ultimately, is he better? I don’t think so. I’m not sure he’s any worse, either. I wish we had better options.
He did not secure a ceasefire.
Note that the ceasefire is literally identical to the one the US Department of State proposed the better part of a year ago. The ceasefire was enacted now, and not before, for reasons of political timing, nothing more. This falls in the same category as Nixon when when he pulled a very similar ploy with Vietnam.
He did not secure a ceasefire.
The ceasefire was enacted now, and not before, for reasons of political timing, nothing more.
Wait…so, who’s responsible for the ceasefire? If it was Biden, why did he choose to do it after Trump got elected? What kind of “political timing” is that?
I feel like you’re intentionally misunderstanding and missing the point of what I’m saying
It’s not intentional.
If it was enacted now because of Trump, then he is the reason it passed.
Ergo he secured it.
He may be a piece of shit with nothing material to add, but his endorsement did move this ceasefire forwards.
Also the same category as Reagan’s election and the embassy hostages + Iran contra affair. It’s part of the standard republican playbook now.
He’s certainly worse, Biden didn’t piss off Canada and Mexico immediately.
I can’t really speak on internal US policies, i.e. whether Biden’s inaction or Trump’s wild actions are overall worse for the nation but internationally, Trump is far far far worse.
It’s not even a competition.
I’m talking about Palestine only.
Okay?
Why didn’t you have an issue with it at any point in the past 15 months?
I did. I still do. What’s your point?
You sure? It sure seems like your first thought here is “how can I rub this in the faces of those i feel like blaming for this” judging by your comment. You seem to want to retroactively remove Biden and Harris’ culpability in bringing us to this point.
Hur dur genius nostradamus here.
Nobody who watched genocide joe support genocide for over a year had any hope for 2025 and beyond.
At least the Palestinians are safe and Israel is paying reparations to rebuild gaza…
OH WAIT THATS COMPLETELY UNTRUE AND YOU AIDED A GENOCIDE. CONGRATULATIONS, LIB.
Few people argued for Trump being better. Biden bombed Gaza to rubble. Trump comes in and does the paperwork. Biden is not absolved.
In no way shape or form am I defending Biden here. His position was indefensible.
Biden didn’t bomb Gaza genius.
I must have imagined those American bombs dropped by American made planes being sent by Biden.
He asked Netanyahu nicely to not carpet bomb Gaza with them. That absolves him of it all.
I must have missed the part where Biden was put in charge of Israel’s military. You .ml folks are simpletons. 🙄
Come on, don’t act like you don’t know what he mean. He just mean thst Biden he is responsible by giving arms and diplomatic protection so Israel can bomb gaza
I know what he means and he’s wrong and so are you. Israel bombed Gaza. Full stop. Biden never had the power to stop it. Want to be angry at someone, choose the military industrial complex at the heart of America’s economy. The president only works for them, no matter his name or party.
Yeah he have no power at all to the point of bypassing the congress to give melitary aid to israel.
If Israel relies on US weapons, then yes the US has the power to stop it, by not supplying the weapons.
We know the weapons are going to be used for genocide. Supplying them is as good as pulling the trigger ourselves.
No you don’t get it, the president directly controls everything including the price of eggs and petroleum.
(These .ml types are as disassociated with reality as the MAGATs)
Is Trump in charge of Israel’s military now because that’s the only way for your comment to make any sense.
No Netanyahu is n charge of Israel’s military. That is my point.
Cranakis,
https://www.axios.com/2024/05/13/us-presidents-red-lines-israel
Eisenhauer, GHW Bush, and Reagan all stopped Israel’s zionist violence dead cold with phone calls, in pretty much this exact same situation. Its well established history that you either aren’t aware of or wont acknowledge-- neither possibility reflecting well on you.
The US is in charge of Netanyahu.
They can’t recognize reality or their propaganda addled brains would drip out their noses.
Reading too many .ml comments is akin to eating a tub of lead based solder.
When I was younger I played Skyrim, it seemed very unrealistic that NPCs though the wind shot them with an arrow, but seeing you I think they had quite good AI actually
“Hur durr, I gottem.”
Native Americans suggest Americans should leave, “Just clean out “ the whole country, allow it to be rewilded and return to how it should be.
“Clean out”, what a wording. So they no longer have any problem saying they support genocide.
Here are my thoughts:
- Israel has been committing genocide in Gaza since day 1, they just pick up the pace sometimes
- Every US president this century has enabled this
- Biden and Harris were all on board with the current round of fast genocide and they should be remembered for it
- Trump pretends to be anti-war but emboldened this shit by moving the US embassy to Jerusalem in 2018 or 19
- Netanyahu wanted Trump to win, as evidenced by meeting him during the campaign last year
- Any ceasefire supposedly happening right now is entirely to give Trump good press. He’s going to give Israel even more support for their imperialist bullshit than Biden did and Harris would have
- Because Trump won, the federal government is going after immigrants, nonwhite people, LGBT people, etc, and is going to further tear the good parts of the government down
I’m pretty disillusioned with the Democrats between the imperialism and almost completely giving in to the fascist takeover, but I wouldn’t be looking to get out of the country if Harris had won, so thanks for that if you could have voted and didn’t.
edit: I voted Uncommitted in the primary, helped out at my local Gaza camp, and have gone to rallies and distributed books about Palestine, so I’m not just sitting here at my computer saying all this
Read THE SHOCK DOCTRINE. It was always gonna be this.
Oh so an actual genocide. Curious.
Continued genocide. As advertised.
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Do you believe what was happening up until now was not genocide? Because if you don’t then calling this an actual genocide makes it seem like you do.
Nonono, it’s only genocide if it comes from Republicans. Otherwise, it’s just sparkling ethnic cleansing.
Gaza would have had a chance… Now bye bye
How? Honest question.
USA withheld weapon shipments under Biden, and according to white house staff Biden would regularly cuss out Netanyahu over the phone for harming civillians.
Whether you believe it or not, the Biden admin was constantly trying to negotiate ceasefire, but when they presented their deal with hostage release as a bargaining tool in the UN it got vetoed by Russia and China.
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Harry Sission is that you? The same White House staff that told everyone how young & dynamic Biden was. LOL!
You mean the one UN ceasefire that was just to allow Israel to regroup and rearm not actually move towards peace? That was also what 5 ceasefire resolutions after all the ones USA vetoed?
not include provisions supporting ongoing diplomatic efforts to secure a ceasefire - an element of the U.S. resolution. Washington has been working with Qatar and Egypt to try to broker a deal.
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Now with U.S.-approved ethnic cleansing.
Implying it wasn’t already one?
Hey you’re cool with the current regime and like genocide! What’s it like being a genocide apologist?Edit: Taking potshots at people who I agree with and don’t deserve it is bad form.
In what way is saying it was already ethic cleansing and a genocide makes me a genocide apologist???
You know what? You’re right, I’m sorry. Taking out my frustrations with the current regime on the wrong target.
It’s okay. Completely understand. (and there’s actually someone in the comments who should take that advice)
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Gaza had a chance under Harris, yes Not anymore.
She campaigned on being exactly like Biden, how would they have a chance?
They had a chance under Biden. He was withholding large bombs and putting pressure on Netanyahu to end the conflict.
Now the bombs are being delivered and Trump is putting pressure on Netanyahu to finish the conflict.
Oh, yes. I’m sure that he would’ve succeeded eventually. Just give him another 4 years…
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Lol his one act of defiance was limiting the 2000lb bombs. Really worked hard there to stop it.
What pressure did Biden ever put on Israel?
jfc you’re really acting like massive explosive ordinance shipments being halted doesn’t have any impact so you can justify helping elect an actual genocidal fascist?
It’s like those fairy tales Zionists try to convince you about that every belief system should seek their own nation. It’s easy to come up with free land when you have zero value for the people living on it.
Oh sure, just take the Palestenians, and shove them somewhere else. Good, endless angry people consolidating on another territory.
He should give maralago to the Indian tribe that used to live there.
Great fucking job, bothsiders. Now you get Genocide++.
I really hope you’re happy that your conscience is clean now the guy who’s main spokesman said Gaza’s ‘waterfront property could be very valuable’ and who himself declared it ‘could be better than Monaco’, clearly with an eye towards beachfront real estate, has the power to make that happen for his own gain.
This was entirely predictable, and we told you this would happen. Trump told you so himself. The dems weren’t perfect by any stretch, but Kamala absolutely wasn’t looking at the situation as to how she could personally profit through real estate development if the Palestinians were just wiped off the map as quickly as possible. Trump likely had the choicest property mapped out, with property developers already submitting proposals.
If you abstained because of both-sides re Israel, fuck you. You at best were played and at worst helped to play others, and now we ALL get to suffer.
The dems weren’t perfect by any stretch
Totally.
Enthusiastically helping Israel stack bodies for four years was definitely imperfect.
Great fucking job, bothsiders. Now you get Genocide++.
Sound like you still haven’t acknowledged the ongoing genocide or understand what is going on in gaza. There’s no such thing as genocide or genocide++ the same way there’s no holocaust or holocaust++. People who chose not to support any scum with blood on their hands have no guilt, they did the correct thing. Assuming you supported the red and blue parties you have more guilt than everyone else, you gave your vote to murderers. Instead of telling you to go fuck off like you did i’m going encourage you to document yourself on what’s going on in gaza and how governments worldwide are allowing it to happen.
What was Biden or Kamala gonna do better than this?
All this finger wagging because people criticized democrats sending billions in weapons which were used in the genocide? Somehow it’s protestors fault in this scenario.
The degree to which you bend over backwards to support the legitimacy of a system where BOTH SIDES of the two-party system fully support israel is astonishing. You speak of others getting played, yet here you are getting played into thinking you can make a difference in a government that has fully supported israel since its establishment regardless of who is in power.
Genocide and Genocide++, if you admit those are the two major parties in the US then why do you blame people like me who voted third party?
600-900 aid trucks are entering Gaza every day and the bombs have stopped falling.
Trump talks shit a lot, but until he actually does something the situation now is far better than it was under Biden.
You’re kidding, right? You think that aid is because of trump, when you’re responding in an article that says his stated motives are the opposite of that?
Much of that aid was already secured before he took office. Shit takes time – especially in a war zone. Wait a month or so and get back to me on whether aid from the US continues. The US has been giving aid to many places that will continue for a short while until the new policies filter through.
Listen to what the new moron-in-chief says, and notice that some policies take a bit of time to take effect. Like the US economy, for instance. Large systems don’t turn on a dime.
Wait a month or so and get back to me on whether aid from the US continues.
They could have gotten that aid in any time they wanted. It doesn’t just take time, it takes political will. The trucks were already there and the aid was all ready to go, they just had to be let in the border by the Zionist entity. They needed a ceasefire.
I’ll definitely be watching what happens over the next weeks and months, but how about we actually do that instead of catastrophize every time the moron in chief says something stupid that he can’t enforce? Forcing Egypt and Jordan to take 1.5-2 million refugees is about as likely as Trump actually annexing Greenland. This shit isn’t happening.
The fascists have done an incredible job lulling people into a false sense of security with “Trump just says outrageous things to trigger the libs he’ll never actually do anything”.
Agreed 100%. If all Democrats do for the next four years is scream the sky is falling then they will lose even more voters in 2028. You don’t run a pro-genocide candidate & parade around with the Cheney’s if the sky is falling. That is called trying to lose.
Can you elaborate?
What about Trump’s arrival / Biden’s departure has enabled 900 aid trucks to start rolling into Gaza every day ?
Obvious propaganda is obvious. Maybe not to you I guess.
Why would a leftist Israeli newspaper promote Trumpian propaganda?
The ceasefire? Before that, basically no aid was coming in.
You mean the pointless political charade to try and make trump look good as he proceeds to further enable and promote the genocide?
It’s fascinating how the situation in Gaza is objectively better (for now), and you sound almost disappointed because it wasn’t Joe Biden who achieved it. (And in fact, Joe kept the genocide going until the very last day of his presidency.)
The ceasefire was agreed under Biden, before the inauguration… Biden is not good for Palestine, but Trump is not better.
Yeah, but it was pressure from Trump that achieved it, because when Israel told Biden to jump, he did as he was told.
Hence why he earned the moniker: Genocide Joe.
The genocide, at the moment, has entered a new phase without bombs or starvation. Let’s be clear: the genocide didn’t start on Oct 7th and it didn’t end with the ceasefire. Israel has always been a genocidal entity. We are just in a less violent phase.
But even if this ceasefire is political it’s hardly a “charade”. It’s a real ceasefire! It’s really saving people’s lives! Without it, I don’t believe Gaza would have survived the winter - too much sickness and starvation. People are living right now who would otherwise be dead.
Until Trump actually does something the situation is better now than it was under Biden.
Doubt it.
I guess it’s time for all the “protest voters” to either admit they never gave a shit about Palestine or admit they fell for Russian propaganda.
Of course that’s if they remember about Palestine. A shiny red ball might have rolled past and distracted them.
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You’re country is sending gopnik prisoners and NK detainees to die in the icy heart of Ukraine, prick.
Stop trolling
It’s time for people to understand that the blue and red party in america are the same shit and voting someone else or not supporting the government is the only way to make a change.
Voting for one of the clowns that got <1,000,000 votes isn’t going to accomplish anything.
Then don’t support the government and think about another solution.
I wonder if 1M other people just like you are saying that.
Even an extra million split between the greens, libertarians, socialist workers, etc isn’t significant compared to the 70+million that the Democrats and Republicans each get.
What was Biden or Kamala gonna do that woulda been better than this?
Presumably the same stuff they did for the last year?
Supplying the munitions for a genocidal carpet bombing campaign? That’s better?
You keep asking like you WANT to know, but that’s just you sealioning like a good .ml chud.
We all know what you’re doing and you’re detracting from any sentiment people outside your echochamber can form on your group.
Personally I don’t enjoy genocide supporters so I’m going to tell you to fuck all the way off. You could suck start a shotgun for all I care 💁
The genocide started 15 months ago and has been steadily supplied and defended by Biden/Harris
@generalemergency,
Dnc centrists who wouldnt let any possible supporters of Palestinians into the democratic party convention are the real unsung heros here, right?Do your posts like this one make you feel better about yourself? Thats why you’re posting isnt it. You told yourself you ‘held your nose’ while voting but you didnt really hold your nose at all. You were happy to drop every semblence of basic human morality and dignity in order to win-- and then you lost anyway.. Now you’re angry at those on your own side who didnt shit their own bed and roll around in it like you did.
To win at all in the future and reclaim the demographic losses, the dems need to admit that what was done in Plaestine was wrong. They need to admit Biden and Harris both were not doing their job and not representing the working class, but were simply chasing corporate and special interest campaign dollars. If the party can do that it might survive. Otherwise its probably dead, becuase No one thinks the democrats stand for anything, and the rage evident at the elites related to Luigi’s prosecution is increasingly the response toward out of touch dem leaders. No one supports corporatists so get your shit together.
It’s funny you think there will be legitimate elections in 4 years. I mean Republicans are already pushing ways to give Trump a third term. So like, congrats on having Gaza screwed even harder while simultaneously throwing away any semblance of democracy?
At least the corporate corrupt Dems gave a small window for changing things democratically while not screwing over Trans people in the USA as well.
By abstaining you allowed the greater evil to prevail, not prevented any evil from occuring.
By abstaining you allowed the greater evil to prevail
I’m heartened to hear that you at least understand that Biden/Harris was evil. Its a good start.
Actual leftists KNEW that already. Kamala, Biden, the majority of the DNC - they’re all corrupt corporatists.
But the situation the USA was in was one of minimizing overall damage. And with the corporatists, there was still a small chance of gaining some control from them peacefully via elections, if simply because more left leaning people can at least run under the Democrat moniker.
With the fascists, that opportunity is gone. By allowing them to win, not only do you worsen the genocide occuring in Israel (if not ensured Israel from achieving it entirely), but also just got killed a bunch of other people and hurt a huge amount of minorities in the USA as well.
Not voting didn’t stop the genocide and never would have, but it did guarantee that it gets worse while hurting other innocents outside of Palestine as well. If you didn’t vote for Kamala (which literally means “horrible” in Finnish), you’re a dumbass, because you allowed a greater evil to prevail. Especially since I know many of y’all abstainers are still paying taxes anyway and funding the genocides either way.
But the situation the USA was in was one of minimizing overall damage
thats logical in a narrow scoping, but I think its reasonable to also consider the longer term effects of the ‘left’ party in the US continuing a track of far right wing actions over time and how that changes the Democratic party and likely destroys it. No one will vote for republican-lite or fascist lite-- those platforms always lose. The DNC doesn’t understand that. Maybe occasionally a Dem leader goes off the rails and can be disavowed later, sure, but if the party stays evil for long enough, that option of disavowing the evildoers’ mistakes goes away and sticks to all dems. The voter losses across all demographics in the last elections show we are at the point of losing the voters and with that our ability to win in the future. For now its still an option to disavow and explicitly reject Biden/Harris’s actions, if we find the stones to throw the old pro-evil anti-lower and anti-middle class leadership out on their ass and admit they were wrong.
Sure the war crimes were destined to happen with either party after the election-- and I’d argue with similar severity. Both parties will let the zionists do whatever they want, whenever they want, to whomever they want. Both parties will also fund the zionists with weapons and money, and will run interference in the UN. But I’d rather they be done by the US republicans which gives us at least a chance to rescue the US Dems, which was badly in need of rescue. Rescue means disempowering the bad actors, which is now completed. Without a dethroning of centrism that evil direction was immutable due to the way funding steers political action in the US. So the dems had to lose the election to pure evil or face political dissolution as evil lite in the short-middle time frame. Yes, the cost is dire in terms of Trump being much worse with internal policy. The prognosis for the US is possibly fatal… We are on life support as a country of laws and as an entity on the world stage with global reserve currency dominance.
Before the election, both parties seemed inevitably doomed-- it was simply of whether it was in the very short term or in the short-medium term. Now the Dems might conceivably disavow their mistakes and correct themselves, after a trip to the woodshed for what we all should agree is a beating of the neolibs that needs to occur if we are to move forward.
Either way we have a lot to answer for as a people who perpetuate this political reality, which affects the world quite a bit. The concept of collective responsibility exists, even if Americans seldom talk about it or understand it.
Well, at least you can whine about how other people voted, and that’ll make you feel better, I guess.
Nah, but I can live with knowing I at least tried to stop literal Nazis from gaining absolute power.
Can you say the same?
(Uhh, my guy, he likes nazis…)
Do you think Musk wouldn’t pay Democrat to get what he wanted? He literally manage to get his wealth while 2 Democrat presidents held office.
I believe he just change teams because it was expected after Biden left the race.
I do believe he knew before it is official that Biden would drop and Trump assassination attempt and moment was clear that he will get the same votes as before so he diced to get favor early.
Some timeline:
Trump assassination attempt was on July 13, 2024
Public Musk endorsement was on the same day.
Biden left the race on July 21, 2024
I do believe that while he might not be publicly a Nazi he will get what he need throughout Democrat president based on his history.
That you still say he’s not publicly a Nazi says everything.
While worded clumsily, I believe they were trying to say “had a Democrat become president, he would continue ‘hiding his power level’”
Thanks for finishing the genocide, Biden was getting tired and your support for Trump is really gonna help israel out.
You were so worried looking at bed A you didn’t think you’d be forced into bed B
Watching you comment, I despair that dems didnt learn a damned thing from this election loss.
And what lesson would that be? Because I’ve seen that line of thinking parroted a suspicious amount lately and I’ve seen one person actually explain what they mean.
So enlighten me.
And what lesson would that be?
I’ll humor you, although I’m surprised you’ve not heard this yet:
What Dem leadership should have learned:
- Have to get back to operating from a platform, not vibes or cult of personality.
- No more genocide. Get back to leading from principle rather than realpolitik. Explicitely ditch the far right zionists-- we can make money elsewhere, and we are not a far right party.
- Be the party of the people. Lower and middle class votes are needed to win. Get back to expanding social programs.
- Stop insulting people. We don’t “go high when they go low”, we kick their ass wherever they are, but we don’t insult voters, and we also dont self-censor for comity’s sake.
- To move fwd and reunite the coalition that is the Dem party, we have to acknowledge that the party hasnt been doing what the people want, and was also engaging in a genocide. No more weasel words around that. Lets get it over with.
- Act like the party is a coalition, not a centrally controlled imperium. Stop kicking the left in the face.
- Dont look for votes form the right.
- Dont lionize bipartisanship as a goal unto itself.
- Create metrics for success and be accountable for them.
- Publish a long term plan for the party, and candidates who wont adhere to it shouldnt be in the party.
- Kick out the right wingers. When we get Bidens/Manchins/Liebermans not towing the line, remove them from their committees and dont fund their re-elections. No dems should be against the platform like Biden did for ~40 years being anti abortion. He should have been kicked to the curb decades ago.
- No more “seniority” in congressional leadership appointments. Go by merit and votes of the constituents.
- term limits for leadership appointments.
- A code of ethics. For starters, dems shouldnt ever be trading stocks the legislate on. It soils the image of the whole party when individuals are corrupt, and that needs to stop. Pelosi needs to go for her decades of insider trading. That never should have been permitted.
- Set a mandatory retirement age for Dems. 70 sounds reasonable. If you are a judge you leave after 70 as soon as a dem administration can appoint your successor. No more waiting for death/incapacity and hurting your party when you go out that way. Lets get these people thinking of the party over their own arrogance. It took everyone way too lont to admit Biden was not fit to run again. That was BS. Party members should have been able to question his competence earlier.
- No more telling states they cant vote in the primary like the dnc did with new hampshire.
- no more shenanigans during primaries like Hillary did with Bernie… They should be fair votes. No more effing superdelegates.
- no more locking constituents out of the convention. The DNC doesnt get to censure voters requests. Those corrupt sons of bitches need to admit they work for us.
It’s genuinely saddening to see you’re still here parroting these lines after the bots have long since packed up and gone home.
The party with the best option to beat trump is still walking around with no future because it has its head up its own arse. They cant admit that abandoning the working class and embracing zionist murder for some campaign cash is going to keep them from winning in the future. And Hasbara is still paying its trolls, clearly.
What makes you think bots left? They are probably low cost to run once theyve been set up. By bots maybe you mean the opinions you dont like dont post as much? Yeah everyone feels defeated and hopeless. Most of my friends wont read the news anymore. I dont blame them.
It’s very obvious to everyone that Palestinians are much worse off now.
Much worse off now? Since the ceasefire?
Ah yes. Silly me. I’m sure Palestinians are looking forward to living happily ever after under trumps protection. This whole “ethnic cleansing” thing is just the news media I’m sure.
No lets circle back to exactly what you said. How are they “much worse off”?
So, “silly you”, you admit what you said isnt true, right? The brutality you cited under trump is the same (or less) brutality Palestinians enjoyed under Biden? If you agree, then I agree with you.
Except to the Palestinians who aren’t being massacred like they were for the ceasefire. Pretty common for Democrats to say things like this though… what was it that Biden said, “You ain’t black unless you vote for me!”
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Dear me.
As a matter of fact, I’ve never been to Germany or anywhere in Europe for that matter.
I’m Australian, and just happen to be using a server with a .de TLD.
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Hah. We’ve never had “concentration camps”, that’s a specific term referring to a specific thing.
It’s true that Australia’s treatment of asylum seekers in recent decades has a lot to criticise.
I’m not really certain why you’re so fixated on my heritage and the associated ethical misadventures of my compatriots?
‘Why do you care that I’m a white south African from apartheid days when you’re accusing me of being racist? What does that matter?’
Dnc centrists who wouldnt let any possible supporters of Palestinians into the democratic party convention are the real unsung heros here, right?
The guy you’re responding to never said that. You’ve discredited your entire comment in the first sentence and there’s no reason to even bother reading the rest of whatever you wrote.
My dood, it is a two party system. Both parties sucked shit when it came to this issue, and the DNC lost votes due to this fact (as one side seems to like some genocide anyway). This issue across both awful parties is implied in the first post and is countered in the “discredited” comment, you know with the whole “held your nose” line. Guess you did not read that far…
You don’t have to agree with the statement, but if you read that “discredited” comment you would see both of you; Know the worse party of the two won, and more importantly one of you seems to have an idea on how not to have the same thing happen again.
My dood, when he opens with a flat out lie about what the guy he’s responding to said, I’m not going to bother reading the rest of it. I thought that I made that pretty clear. So trying to have a discussion about the rest of what he had to say isn’t going to be very productive.
Yes, it’s a two party system and both sucked on this issue. But one sucks a whole fucking lot more on it and also sucks on literally every other issue there is. And I’m not going to coddle a bunch of people who can’t see that.
My dood, I am telling you they did not open with a flat out lie about the comment they are replying to. They are making a point you don’t like, sure! But no where was there a lie about what people said, just inferences made.
Like cool, you dislike what was said, but spending more time defending your stance of not reading then just reading and downvoting is wild and silly.
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By your comment, should we assume you’re the ones who thought that a known racist and islamophobe with ties with Israel would be the best option for Palestinians?
Well, Palestine won’t exist in the next election cycle. What lies will you trust next?
I guess some people aren’t ready to admit their mistakes.
The irony of you losers high handing people. You lot lost this last election.
Who do you think you are? You’re right down here in the mud with the rest of us. The party brand is in absolute tatters and trust in it has never been lower. Heck of a job. And then you try to lecture people? Its absurd.
If you voted for genocide…that was a mistake.
I didn’t vote for genocide. What did you do?
Yes we get it, you just made sure the literal Nazis got power and gave Israel the means to 100% Speedrun the genocide.
I didn’t vote for genocide.
Do you feel ok about that in the context of what’s about to happen in Palestine?
Do I feel okay about voting for an anti-genocide candidate? Of course. Why wouldn’t I?
The question is: why are so many people okay voting for a pro-genocide candidate?
We shouldn’t even be having this conversation. No Democratic candidate should be supporting genocide. Ever. And nobody should be defending her!
Why wouldn’t I?
Because you’ve enabled Trump to grind palestinians into the dust.
Who do you think Palestinians wanted to win the election?
There’s a ceasefire right now because of Trump. How many Palestinians do you think died while the Biden admin was vetoing the UN security council to stop the genocide?
One of two people was going to win this election and unless you voted for the other one, you helped elect Trump.
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It wasn’t inaction. I voted for Jill Stein.
So you didn’t do anything to avoid a Trump presidency. That’s inaction.
Same here bro, an actual progressive candidate who had no problem saying no to genocide unlike most of the Democrats here. What did Kamala do? She endorsed a smear ad against her:
No, Kamala helped Trump:
https://www.dropsitenews.com/p/kamala-harris-gaza-israel-biden-election-poll
Those 29% are fucking idiots. Trump is making things worse exactly like everyone with an IQ above room temperature said he would.
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Undecided voter to Democrats… “Why do you support genocide?” Democrats, “Listen here you fucking idiot. I hope you get cancer for questioning us. Do as we say you fascist! You ain’t black if you don’t vote for us.”
We did it Patrick! We saved Palestine!
