Why don’t black people organize? Are they stupid? Is there a lore reason for it?
Someone came in with a rookie question and there’s some great answers with a lot of upvotes. I’ve heard the deprogram subreddit can be chaos, but this isn’t one of those cases.
It’s also reflected in Top 40 hiphop. They had Tupac in the 90s talking about Lenin and hiphop was not as commodified for white consumption. I like Kendrick but I’m not so sure he’s as revolutionary as hiphop used to be.
For every comment correctly identifying the true cause being LEADERS ARE BEING MURDERED BY THE STATE, you got dummies talking about how it’s because Kendrick isn’t revolutionary enough
It’s that, but it’s also that relative to the 80’s and 90’s, America has gotten less racist (actually and symbolically). It’s a very low bar, but it’s always shocking looking at media from those times and seeing the shit people used to not even bat an eyelid at on TV. A time before widespread bodycam use (yes, I know, there’s still a lot of dodgy bodycam business), before every citizen had a camera in their pocket, before the news would spread like wildfire on the internet, or a video of some professor saying the N word, or whatever.
America is an incredibly racist place, and the system - laws, media, whatever - has undoubtedly done their best to dismantle black radicalism, but America has also got to a point where it is less justifiable than it was to have an armed militia in the name of civil rights. The police are bad now, but they used to be magnitudes worse.
It’s the same reason we don’t have radicalism in general anymore - the usual factors like repression and surveillance, but also because many of us have our needs just about sated, and have the illusion of free speech. Conditions necessitate militia style resistance - the conditions currently do not necessitate such a thing (to the wider population).
As soon as the imperial profit tap runs dry, living conditions will go down, people rise up - as soon as the state represses them as severely as they used to, the time of militias will be born again.
There’s just a barrier for entry here where white leftists are only familiar with the surface level history (the rap beefs, which albums Fantano told them to like, etc) without knowing the ties between hip hop and the Black radical tradition and how the CIA killed Tupac. Due to the subreddit’s demographics it’s gonna be hard for that part of the history to reach the top and people remain in the surface level, incapable of synthesizing a coherent theory.
They should’ve made the connection that Tupac had familial ties to the BPP, was part of the YCL, and was probably assassinated by the FBI.
that sub is definitely overall a net positive but i dont think anyone there reads theory. back in cth days we would bully people who didnt read theory. deprogram just bullies liberals on twitter
deprogram is definitely too relaxed. I’ve also noticed a marked decrease in quality from hakim since joining as well. They all need to be more strict and teach more theory.
It’s an entertainment podcast
People should listen to audiobooks or perhaps college level, organized discussions (David Harvey has lectures and short Q&A about Capital going chapter by chapter, for example) if they want theory (in an audio format)
But that said, I do sort of agree that they should try harder to at least get people to seek out theory by giving more tastes of it dispersed throughout the podcast. Hakim usually is the best at it. He talks about something then says “Read Whatever by Whoever for more.” It just seems like between his “real job” and sort of realizing what people (their audience) want isn’t to be told to read books… yeah, he’s like “fuck it. Just subscribe, I guess.”
The sad fact is if you had a heavy, heavy theory oriented podcast. Like it’s basically just a review and highlighting of main points from a book, chapter by chapter. Very few people are going to listen to it. Some will, for sure. But let’s be realistic. I think all you can really do is what Hakim used to do more of which is shoutout books for people to go read. If it piqued someone’s interest they will go read. Of course the bottleneck or whatever here is the host(s) have to be incredibly well-read themselves. Hakim can rattle off a billion books because he’s clearly a theory nerd and has read, perhaps, too many books. That already places him in like the 0.01% of podcasters by education level (self or otherwise).
I guess what I’m getting at here is the same cliche. “Podcasts are slop content. Don’t expect anything. The best they can do is shame listeners into reading maybe one book.”
This especially, with regards to how Hexbear often criticizes Breadtubers or whomever, seem to expect these creators to drop everything and start making hyper-specific reviews of obscure theory or something that’ll accrue generously 1k views and be absorbed by absolutely nobody. Unfortunately I think Social media isn’t going to serve the cause in any meaningful way since it’s largely devoted by their owners to avoid that kind of thing, since people click on the digestible videos that interest them.
I just don’t want Guerrilla History to be the only podcast where people actually read and recommend shit to read. Outside of a select few, the vast majority of podcasts is just slop and Youtubers are even worse because it’s slop that you can’t even enjoy while commuting to work.
Yea I think the best we can hope for from “slop” is for it to funnel people into the leftist pipeline. If it’s not entertaining people won’t watch it, and I get that because sometimes you’re not in the mood to watch or read some theoretical work.
Right wing slop already serves this purpose, with the people who consume it not even aware it’s right wing
Unfortunately the benefit the right wing has is the more people consume slop and get pissed at manufactured controversies they create, the more it just swirls in a vortex of “shit” for everyone else. Notice that approximately zero American conservatives who aren’t capitalists (so “working class” non-business owners) seem to give a flying shit now days about anything that isn’t a “culture war” talking point. Or a derivative of one. There’s no like “serious” discussion on how to solve inflation or their wages becoming more and more dogshit over time. “Trump said tariffs will fix it! Yep! That’ll fix it. And he said we’re deporting the “illegals!” And making being trans illegal! Hell yeah!”
They’ve managed to just create this stew of shit where they create a “controversy” based on, I dunno, some sort of perceived “degeneration” of invented societal norms from the past, say “Yeah, we’re banning that. Also, taxes. Those are bad. When has the government helped you anyway? Also, the government is full of trans people. They want to tax you. Ban it all, right?”
It doesn’t matter because these people just want a distraction and someone to blame. The right wing slop bucket has endless opportunities to feed them “enemies.” Then their leaders, Trump, or whoever (he’s not unique. Maybe especially skilled at selling the bullshit though) come and say “I agree with you, long time listeners of SlopCast!” He feeds them the sloppiest slop, fucks something they probably rely on without knowing it (or will one day), and they’re just left smiling and giggling covered in shit. Like little hoglets.
The democrats have basically defined themselves as “We are the half measure party to republican full measures!” Aka, losers if you’re in the slop realm. Losers if you’re on the left. The only people who like the dems are those adjacent to slop world, suburban moms basically, who consume it but don’t like how it tastes. “Let’s kill… only half the immigrants?” is the conclusion they reach.
It’s rather unfortunate that “left wing” slop basically just distracts, for the most part. While right wing slop is actually required for their entire operation. The left relies on people organizing en masse and having leaders from within the working class that represent their fellow workers and are educated on class struggle. Podcasts probably aren’t pushing much there. The right relies on the spread of bullshit. 100 loud mouths spouting the dumbest shit you can imagine at people who sort of know everything is getting shittier and shittier and really want an enemy to blame… that’s ripe for the right wing to pluck. The left could, in theory, capitalize on the opportunity, and I think to an extent some are doing so currently. The question has long been floating in the ether though “What are the limits of radicalization via podcast/online content consumption generally?” So far, it seems to be extremely limited in reach. The people who consume the content often already agree with the host. It also sort of instills a feeling of “having done something” when you listen to someone else break down a situation. You feel like you addressed it. The anger starts to dissipate. That anger is essential to getting people to do stuff though. Something the right understands and exploits constantly.
Anyway, none of this is really unique. Just sort of observing stuff others have as well.
I think that the three of them attracted a much younger audience than they were aiming for, and they’ve kinda started trying to make things easier for that audience to understand (although that’s not exactly an excuse for Hakim who makes very historically-oriented stuff).
Yeah thats where im more critical, Hakim definitely doesn’t have the same well-read punch he used to
Hakim’s quality definitely went downhill. When was the last time he released a book recommendation video? I also don’t like how his newer videos are just him recycling his older videos that he has hidden(?). I feel like the newer recycled videos has less info compared with the original older videos, but I don’t have them to compare.
its also very like… idk… drama seeking vibe? Like he wants to ‘own the libs’ and not just make communist content. I definitely prefer his older vibe.
Gotta remember that random redditor might be 12 years old and just learned about the BPP yesterday.
In a way maybe it’s a testament to the deprogram podcast for reaching people who clearly haven’t done much homework but are curious.
I’m being very generous with these interpretations of course. That is such a dweeb ass question to ask.
yeah it’s phrased ignorantly and people are reacting to that appropriately but it is good to ask why there hasn’t been anything quite like the bpp since then and the answer is mostly the government killing people who would build it.
Yeah for real. Like all the BLM protestor organisers who shot themselves in the back and set their cars on fire after they died, they stand as a stark reminder that this oppression is current and active and until a certain tipping point is reached or a critical mass of people ready to die on their feet find each other, of course people are going to keep their heads down and focus on survival and providing for their families.
Plus like, the entire legal landscape changed in response to the BPP in its most active areas and presumably where a lot of the surviving family members are still based. You can’t just march around with guns and stand off with the police anymore unless you’re a psyop org. You’d just get massacred and the majority of the population would see it as a reasonable response. Fuck that, I can’t imagine the frustration felt by the people who would join a modern BPP movement but instead have to operate quietly in their neighbourhood self defense efforts.
Like I’m white and not from America, I can’t put myself in those shoes, but I can only imagine how incredibly miserable it would be to stay actively engaged with politics while living with the legacy of the earlier movements being so brutally repressed. The experiment was tried and it unfortunately failed, at least twice now, so any new movement has to be something new and adapted to the current material conditions etc.
wtf do you mean why don’t Black people organize? All the groups I’ve organized with, pro-Palestinian groups, tenant unions, SRA, have ALL had an over representation of Black people compared to local demographics.
Lots of good answers in the thread.
Alot highly upvoted bad ones too
Not beating the cracker allegations
the original OP claims to be Indian (I think believably)
ah ok
The actual top answers to the questions seem to be reasonable tbh. IDK what you’re getting at here.
The near 300 plus upvotes, also the comments under the comment you linked are dogshit culturalist nonsense
That is seriously the problem. All black American idols are just capitalist scum, and consumer fetishism runs rampant in all poor communities, but particularly black ones. People like Killer Mike and JayZ are hailed as heroes for buying properties in their hoods just to charge exorbitant rent, further gentrifying their own community. Jayz literally rapped about doing just that and people love it.
Rappers run black communities and black people are the most consumer obsessed demographic in America; stunning analysis, total mirror to reality and not the most white-brained reductive Bill Maher level take
We’re five years out from the 2020 rebellions and “leftists” are still spitting out these condescending takes, incredible
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What can we discern from that absent the original post?
Why are we “absenting” the original post? 300 dipshits on a leftist sub upvoted a nasty post about black people, we’re not dealing with rocket science here and it certainly doesn’t require excuses
More importantly though, you are taking a minority of the comments in the thread, with 1/10th of the number of upvotes as the top comment
Yeah just a dozen highly upvoted comments in a leftist sub claiming the reason Black people aren’t radical or revolutionary is because of their consumer spending habits and too much “middle class” hip hop culture, no biggie, just normal things leftists assert for totally normal reasons
and it’s going to experience stray idiots wandering in & saying dumb shit from time to time.
Good thing I didn’t post about a random stray comment but instead a thread with hundreds of upvotes
And yes it’s awesome plenty of folks saw thru the bullshit and responded appropriately, but it didn’t stop the post from blowing up and a dozen comments about bad hip hop influence springing out of the ground, hence the title “r/Deprogram having a normal one” raise your standards
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Come on, you don’t see that tier of racist crap everywhere. The mods are free to actually remove the comments. I appreciate that it’s never gonna be as good as Hexbear where we have a lot more control over site culture, but if your subreddit has hundreds of people hanging around that are happy with upvoting comments that are saying that Black people are sheep that follow rappers like drones you’ve done something wrong.
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They’re also bad when it comes to the usage of a certain ableist slur. Reporting it to the mods does nothing, and you’ll just get downvoted to hell if you try to call them out on it.
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What have conservatives been losing their shit about the past ten years