• pjwestin@lemmy.world
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    23 hours ago

    So your argument is, then, that progressives decided that fascism was preferable to a moderate liberal?

    No, it’s that centrists decided that losing to facism was preferable to winning with progressivism.

    As a progressive, I doubt that.

    As a progressive, I doubt that.

    • PugJesus@lemmy.world
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      23 hours ago

      No, it’s that centrists decided that losing to facism was preferable to winning with progressivism.

      Your argument is that progressives chose to sit out and not vote over voting for a corporate Dem against fascism, because the Dem wasn’t progressive enough for them.

      Please, inform me as to how that argument implies something other than “progressives decided that fascism was preferable to a moderate liberal”

      As a progressive, I doubt that.

      Of course, no one who is threatened by the approach of literal fucking fascism in this country is a TRUE progressive.

      • pjwestin@lemmy.world
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        23 hours ago

        Your argument is that progressives chose to sit out and not vote over voting for a corporate Dem against fascism, because the Dem wasn’t progressive enough for them.

        No, it’s that it created an insurmountable enthusiasm gap. I thought that was clear because those were the words I used, but I guess not. Democrats thought they could just keep talking about project 2025 and it would be motivating enough for people to go out and vote for a candidate and platform they didn’t care about. As I said, that was a bad fucking bet.

        Of course, no one who is threatened by the approach of literal fucking fascism in this country is a TRUE progressive.

        No, but someone who exclusively punches left doesn’t strike me as being particularly left.

        • PugJesus@lemmy.world
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          23 hours ago

          No, it’s that it created an insurmountable enthusiasm gap.

          Yes, you’re saying progressives stayed home because voting for a moderate Dem against fascism wasn’t EXCITING enough for them.

          So literally what I accused you of saying, thanks for agreeing with me.

          No, but someone who exclusively punches left doesn’t strike me as being particularly left.

          I’m sorry, I’ll stop attacking the people who, like you, are making apologia for letting fascism take over one of the most powerful countries in the world because they weren’t ‘enthused’ enough.

          I’ll be sure to be properly contrite for shaming you when I’m in line for the death camps.

          • pjwestin@lemmy.world
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            22 hours ago

            Yes, you’re saying progressives stayed home because voting for a moderate Dem against fascism wasn’t EXCITING enough for them.

            I’m saying that candidates that don’t generate enthusiasm don’t win. For someone who’s constantly pontificating like they’re the only one in the world that understands realpolitik, that seems to be a real blind spot for you.

            I’m sorry, I’ll stop attacking the people who, like you, are making apologia for letting fascism take over one of the most powerful countries in the world because they weren’t ‘enthused’ enough.

            Buddy, that’s you. You’re the one looking for anyone to blame other than the party that blew $1.6 billion on their worst defeat since 2004.

            • PugJesus@lemmy.world
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              22 hours ago

              I’m saying that candidates that don’t generate enthusiasm don’t win.

              Yes, you’re saying that, according to you, the loss was caused by progressives not being enthused enough because they weren’t pandered to. Exactly what I said you were saying. You continually reaffirm this and then act like you’re contradicting me, and I can’t tell if you genuinely don’t understand, or if you’re just afraid to confront the fact that your own argument places the blame for fascism on the people you were just trying to defend.

              For someone who’s constantly pontificating like they’re the only one in the world that understands realpolitik, that seems to be a real blind spot for you.

              How? I’m not the one saying progressives caused this loss.

              Buddy, that’s you. You’re the one looking for anyone to blame other than the party that blew $1.6 billion on their worst defeat since 2004.

              I blame the Dem party, absolutely. It’s just that the Dem elite being guilty as fuck doesn’t fucking absolve all the fascist cunts who voted for fascism or stood by as fascism swept into power.

              Wear your brownshirt proudly. You earned it.

              • pjwestin@lemmy.world
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                22 hours ago

                Yes, you’re saying that, according to you, the loss was caused by progressives not being enthused enough because they weren’t pandered to.

                I don’t know what to tell you, dude. You don’t turn out groups you don’t campaign for. Harris didn’t campaign for progressives and the working class, she didn’t turn out progressives or the working class. Hillary didn’t visit Michigan or Wisconsin, she didn’t win Michigan or Wisconsin. It’s just reality, I’m sorry you don’t like it.

                I blame the Dem party, absolutely

                Citation needed.

                Yes, you’re saying that, according to you, the loss was caused by progressives not being enthused enough because they weren’t pandered to.

                I voted for her you chud.

                • PugJesus@lemmy.world
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                  22 hours ago

                  I don’t know what to tell you, dude. You don’t turn out groups you don’t campaign for.

                  So you agree with my characterization of your argument, and you’ve spent the past five comments or so flailing around because… it sounds bad when it’s said by someone else? Fuck’s sake.

                  I voted for her you chud.

                  Is that supposed to make your argument less absurd? I assure you, it doesn’t.

                  • pjwestin@lemmy.world
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                    22 hours ago

                    So you agree with my characterization of your argument, and you’ve spent the past five comments or so flailing around because… it sounds bad when it’s said by someone else?

                    …no, dude, we’re not saying the same thing. You really need this explained? You’re saying, “pRoGrEsSiVeS DiDn’T sToP fAsCiSm BeCaUsE tHeY’Re eNtiTlEd,” and I’m saying no one, in the history of elections, turned out groups they didn’t campaign for or motivate. The Harris campaign thought they could get around a complete lack of a progressive message by saying, “Project 2025,” and scaring progressive groups into voting for them, and it didn’t work.

                    Is that supposed to make your argument less absurd?

                    No, it’s supposed to point out that it’s fucking stupid it is to call someone a Nazi because they didn’t vote for your candidate, especially when they voted for your terrible fucking candidate.