A Third Woman Died Under Texas’ Abortion Ban. Doctors Are Avoiding D&Cs and Reaching for Riskier Miscarriage Treatments.
www.propublica.org
Thirty-five-year-old Porsha Ngumezi’s case raises questions about how abortion bans are pressuring doctors to avoid standard care even in straightforward miscarriages.
  • JakenVeina@lemm.ee
    112·
    22 days ago

    It doesn’t. Life is a continuum, it doesn’t care what artificial labels we try to put on things. A fertilized egg is just as alive as an unfertilized one, or a sperm cell, by any scientific definition of life, highlights how useless it is to try and use that definition to argue about abortion.

    • realcaseyrollins
      316·
      22 days ago

      A fertilized egg is just as alive as an unfertilized one

      Source?

      • JakenVeina@lemm.ee
        91·
        22 days ago

        From the National Institute for Health

        In biology, it is generally agreed that organisms that possess the following seven characteristics are animate or living beings and thus possess life: the ability to respire, grow, excrete, reproduce, metabolize, move, and be responsive to the environment

        The article as a whole elaborates that even trying to pin down a single definiton of life is a bit of a fool’s errand, much less trying to use such a definition to support arguments about when life starts or stops.

        From the Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy (which actually is just re-quoting an entirely different article, one of many discussed within)

        We propose to define living systems as those that are: (1) composed of bounded micro-environments in thermodynamic equilibrium with their surroundings; (2) capable of transforming energy to maintain their low-entropy states; and (3) able to replicate structurally distinct copies of themselves from an instructional code perpetuated indefinitely through time despite the demise of the individual carrier through which it is transmitted.

        From a University of Minnesota Introduction to Biology course

        All groups of living organisms share several key characteristics or functions: order, sensitivity or response to stimuli, reproduction, adaptation, growth and development, regulation, homeostasis, and energy processing. When viewed together, these characteristics serve to define life.

        In short, there really isn’t any unified definition of life. Comparing different definitions, there’s common themes that emerge, but nothing that supports saying conception is when it starts. If you’re going to use that definition, you can’t support it by saying that “science” defines it that way.

        • realcaseyrollins
          48·
          22 days ago

          I guess my thing is those descriptors don’t apply to unfertilized embryos.

        • jimbolauski@lemm.ee
          310·
          22 days ago

          The definitions you provided exclude both egg and sperm from being classified as a living organism. They can not reproduce or replicate themselves.

          • JakenVeina@lemm.ee
            5·
            21 days ago

            Considering those quotes talk about defining “living systems” or “groups of organisms”, as opposed to individual cells (and again, elaborated on even moreso within the full linked articles), I’m gonna have to say “no, they’re not really excluded at all.” Their entire purpose is to meet up and initiate replication. An egg and sperm cell are each one small part of a much larger system of ongoing life. The same can be said for a fertilized egg, an embryo, and so on for most stages of development in a womb.

            If you want to insist on a definition that says egg and sperm cells aren’t alive, or aren’t an organism, you’re gonna have a hard time saying that a fertilized egg or an embryo are. They don’t replicate on their own, either, not without a very specific environment and set of stimuli.

            Also, sperm cells DO replicate, to an extent. They undergo forms of mitosis and meiosis, during their growth. And an egg cell absolutely replicates. Like any other type of cell replication, it needs certain stimuli to initiate it. I.E. it needs to be fertilized.

            • jimbolauski@lemm.ee
              25·
              21 days ago

              If you want to insist on a definition that says egg and sperm cells aren’t alive, or aren’t an organism, you’re gonna have a hard time saying that a fertilized egg or an embryo are. They don’t replicate on their own, either, not without a very specific environment and set of stimuli.

              An embryo goes from a single cell to multiple genetically identical cells, that is replication. Sperm cells do not replicate into more identical sperm cells, eggs do not replicate into more identical eggs.

              Also, sperm cells DO replicate, to an extent. They undergo forms of mitosis and meiosis, during their growth. And an egg cell absolutely replicates. Like any other type of cell replication, it needs certain stimuli to initiate it. I.E. it needs to be fertilized.

              I would argue that the mitosis process sperm cells undergo splits the cell into two genetically different cells and the genetic difference ia not a mutation so it’s not replication. Egg cells don’t replicate they don’t copy their DNA, they fuse with sperm at which time they become an embryo and start to replicate.

            • jimbolauski@lemm.ee
              14·
              22 days ago

              Yes an embryo does replicate. How do you think an embryo goes from one cell to multiple cells?

              • BeardedBlaze@lemmy.world
                4·
                21 days ago

                Thru cell division. Didn’t know you were referring to DNA replication, which was not mentioned anywhere in the articles you replied to.

                • jimbolauski@lemm.ee
                  13·
                  21 days ago

                  You should probably read the articles before you comment on what’s in them. It may also help to know what replication means.

                  “Any system capable of replication and mutation is alive” to Schulze-Makuch et al. 2002:

                  (3) able to replicate structurally distinct copies of themselves from an instructional code perpetuated indefinitely through time despite the demise of the individual carrier through which it is transmitted.

                  Forterre, Patrick, 2006a, “Three RNA cells for ribosomal lineages and three DNA viruses to replicate their genomes: a hypothesis for the origin of cellular domain,” Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences, 103(10): 3669–3674.