Found at the DDR museum in Berlin. Apparently making childrens play with each other is communist propaganda.

Parenti quote.

  • 7bicycles [he/him]@hexbear.netEnglish
    81·
    21 days ago

    I’m genuinely pretty sure the DDR Museum in Berlin is run by socialists who want you to notice this, I swear to god that entire fucking place makes 0 sense otherwise. All the stations are like this, they’re describing something good that nominally west germany did or still does but then describe it as bad because the communists did it, it ends with you looking at ginormous flat which it tells you cost the equivalent of 50€ per month or something and that nobody but the the richest 5% of the country could afford in Berlin today, before letting you out via the gift store full of DDR nostalgia to buy. Even all the most unpolitical, co-worker-belief-system people I’ve went there with caught on to it.

    • normal_user [none/use name]@hexbear.netOPEnglish
      55·
      21 days ago

      Yes, i think there is a panel where it tells you that some worker for a 3 room apartment pays 10% of their salary. Then they show you a standard 3 room apartment and while going through it I was so surprised because I would never be able to afford anything even close to it.

      But all the museum is about how people where oppressed and poor !?

    • TechnoUnionTypeBeat [he/him, they/them]@hexbear.netEnglish
      27·
      21 days ago

      before letting you out via the gift store full of DDR nostalgia to buy

      Holy shit you’re not kidding

      I went to check their online shop and it is entirely the kind of merch you’d expect to see in a pro socialist shop: plenty of Hero of Labour merch, Marx and Lenin stuff, a faux DDR passport notebook, that kinda stuff. There’s a few things that border on either being actual anticommunism or possibly parody (like a sign saying “No Goods Today” in German), but none of it looks like it’s meant to be ironic

      Adding on as I look at more things: they sell a magnet celebrating the formation of the DDR (Republic Day, October 7th). I’m with you, there’s no way this place isn’t run by socialists

    • REgon [they/them]@hexbear.netEnglish
      14·
      20 days ago

      Example of the one thing the west is good at being used against it: Propaganda.

      You don’t say “we’re perfect.” You say “oh well sure we’ve got our flaws, but it’s nuanced and really the other guys aren’t even trying!”
      Now it’s just being deployed by socialists. They say “oh well the DDR wasn’t perfect, you couldn’t choose your own apartment (which cost 50 euro a month) and people had so much free time they fucked a lot, which isn’t very productive. Compare it to our modern system where we can’t fix our own things and we work so hard we’re too tired to fuck! We make so much stuff! Anyway if you wanna ironically buy a Lenin poster or this book going into more details, feel free to do so!”

  • mathemachristian [he/him]@hexbear.netEnglish
    47·
    21 days ago

    Yes hi I’m sending my kid to kindergarden in Germany right now. It’s the same thing under capitalism 😲

    Except there’s worse coverage, non-german citizens get discriminated by not getting the same coverage and it costs 250€/hour if you go out of pocket.

  • piccolo [any]@hexbear.netEnglish
    46·
    21 days ago

    Lol I was there recently and also noticed that. The whole museum was full of propaganda, but it was cool to see some of the exhibits, like the Trabant. Some “fun” anticommunist highlights included:

    • The dystopian evil jail cell run by the communist dictators (about the same size as the room I rent in [major city, imperial core country])
    • The dystopian evil kindergarten with a rigid schedule including play and nap time
    • The dystopian evil standard allocated apartment that EVERYONE had and there was NO individuality (much bigger than the room I rent, and for much less money)
    • The dystopian evil SEX that all the HORNY EAST GERMANS were having (the museum explained it as a result of there being nothing else to do, lol)
    • The dystopian evil DIY repair culture
    • The dystopian evil tired bureaucrats who looked more like people than Bond villains
    • The dystopian evil LGBTs who weren’t forbidden from existing by the state
    • The factory farming that happened under the DDR (which, like, as a vegan, sure, but it’s not like the Federal Republic or any Western country wasn’t doing this)
    • There was literally a panel saying that all Eastern bloc states weren’t allowed to deviate from the USSR’s policies or will, then gave an example of the DDR doing just that to resist Soviet reforms in '85

    And every single bullet point here made my blood boil (supposed to be a translation of some of the key terms, without propaganda):

    spoiler (sorry, I only photographed the English text)

    Anyways, I guess I funded anticommunist propaganda by visiting and also buying a DDR patch

    • UlyssesT [he/him]@hexbear.netEnglish
      15·
      20 days ago

      The dystopian evil kindergarten with a rigid schedule including play and nap time

      That alone would piss off “no veggies for dinner, no bedtimes” internet adults too.

    • REgon [they/them]@hexbear.netEnglish
      8·
      20 days ago

      The dystopian evil standard allocated apartment that EVERYONE had and there was NO individuality

      As opposed to the cheap dime-a-dozen housing that gets smacked up everywhere, rented for outrageous prices and god help you if you paint a cabinet or drill a hole in the wall - Goodbye deposit.

    • came_apart_at_Kmart [he/him, comrade/them]@hexbear.netEnglish
      301·
      21 days ago

      for real. I have some childless friends. which I should say I am also childless, but I like kids and used to teach kids from ages 10-17. my friends have never worked with kids and never interact with them, but they remember school as being mean to them and not letting them achieve their maximum individual potential, so they think kids should just have all this unstructured magic playtime to explore their own genius.

      I’m not saying we need to be shitty to them, but kids are crazy. they need to be constantly reminded not to cough in others’ faces, not to dig in their own assholes and then touch group food, not to act like goddam maniac when someone it’s someone else’s turn with a shared resource, and that it’s important to play in a group activity or accomplish a task with a partner and realize a shared vision.

      kids can be absolutely fuckin bonkers’ ass little terrorist monsters with no impulse control, and people who think they are magic enlightened angels should be forced to work with them for like one day.

        • Awoo [she/her]@hexbear.netEnglish
          17·
          21 days ago

          Rofl this is probably caused by the hilarious reactions she gets when she does this, either the elation adults show because it’s funny af or the shock and surprise being entertaining. Discouraging it is very difficult and a lot of kids do it for the same reasons - incorrect reactions from those around them end up reinforcing the behaviour.

          • UlyssesT [he/him]@hexbear.netEnglish
            10·
            20 days ago

            The son of one of my long-time friends likes to run around hitting random adults, myself included, just to see their reactions. burgerpain

        • Poogona [he/him]@hexbear.netEnglish
          11·
          21 days ago

          Okay this is a very earnest examination of a little joke I was making but I will say that I agree, it’s just that kids at like 5 simply can’t really conceive of a “social contract” for the most part

          There are some cool chimp studies though that showcase how infant humans and infant chimps, when presented with a little “play” involving a shape atop a hill that pushes another shape down whenever it climbs up, have very different priorities. When presented with physical toys that match the shapes from the play, infant humans usually chose the shape that was getting pushed down, while the infant chimps chose the “dominant” shape

          It’s not super conclusive tbh but it’s cute that kids seemingly want to console the bullied actor

        • REgon [they/them]@hexbear.netEnglish
          7·
          20 days ago

          I’ve worked with kids from the age of 2-9 and I gotta tell you, they are not conditioned to be selfish monsters. They are selfish. They’ve just barely learned that they themselves exist, expecting them to have empathy is a lot. They don’t learn how actions and consequences are related until very late.

          in fact i think it’s borderline reactionary. yeah kids are gross and selfish and shitty but who taught them to be that way?

          Honestly I think it’s the other view that’s reactionary. Kids are taught empathy. They do mean shit to each other all the tme. They’re selfish and mean. They are also so much more, but pretending like these other qualities aren’t inherent, just because they’re ugly… It’s pure ideology.
          The system we exist in then hits them with contradictions. They’re taught to care for others and share their stuff and be nice and then… Welcome to the world! You just got punked, sucker! Give me all your free time!

            • REgon [they/them]@hexbear.netEnglish
              3·
              20 days ago

              don’t really think that needs to be beat out of them

              I am not saying that. In fact I am saying the opposite “They’ve just barely learned that they themselves exist, expecting them to have empathy is a lot. They don’t learn how actions and consequences are related until very late.”
              Expecting them to behave any different isn’t reasonable. Expecting children to learn how to behave without guidance or help is also unreasonable.

              Like kids don’t need to be yelled at or implicitly threatened with a lack of love to understand that they did something wrong, we treat kids as way dumber than they actually are. but it doesn’t follow that we then have to literally and/or metaphorically beat morality into their heads instead of guiding them towards their own understanding

              Where did I say anything about any of this? I don’t think yelling at children does anything but create trauma. Studies indicate it’s basically as bad as beating them.

              But calling them inherently selfish and evil little monsters veers way too close to old reactionary rhetoric for it to be comfortable or OK

              I don’t know a lot about neuroscience, but I know some parts develop later than others. And again: “They’ve just barely learned that they themselves exist, expecting them to have empathy is a lot. They don’t learn how actions and consequences are related until very late”

                • REgon [they/them]@hexbear.netEnglish
                  3·
                  20 days ago

                  Oh yeah for sure, I think we approach the discourse from opposite ends in some ways and that’s where it’s at. Like I see a lot of… etherializing? of children. “Oooh they’re just inherently pure souls, all bad in this world is only because we don’t treat them kinder” which leads to a lot of bad shit too, like unschooling. And it’s frustrating after you’ve worked with them for some years. Watching a child not play with a bucket until another child asks them to pass it to them, to then start an argument, makes you realize they’re not divine beings.
                  Their brains are developing, there’s a lot of tools they don’t have. I can’t count the amount of times two kids have approached me because they’re in a fight and they just don’t have the toolkit to get out of it. Learning how to say “sorry” and emotionally investing into that sorry isn’t something we have from the get go. Until your brain reaches the needed point, you need someone else to step in and guide you along the path.

                  Edit: see this comment for more examples

      • UlyssesT [he/him]@hexbear.netEnglish
        10·
        20 days ago

        Teachers have to work with the students they are given, and those students can come from some rough conditions. The fact that many parents already see teachers as “glorified babysitters” (what glory?) means many parents outright expect teachers to pick up parenting duties, including teaching basic manners and decency, on top of everything else.

      • REgon [they/them]@hexbear.netEnglish
        10·
        20 days ago

        I’ve done improv and TTRPGs with large groups of 7-9 year olds. So many theater teachers love to talk about how “kids are just so creative” and “just go back to your childhood” and act all enlightened about how the system just pushes us into boxes.

        Kids fucking suck at improv. Their creativity is ass in any group project. They cannot relate to others and lack empathy. “I’M A BIG YELLOW ELEPHANT AND I AM BREATHING FIRE OUT MY ASS” okiedokie Philip, but actually it’s Lisa’s turn and we’ve already made characters. Michael is actually being burnt alive right now, so maybe instead of making it burn more, you think of a way you can help your good friend? Love the input though.

        Kids are put into boxes, but those boxes are titled things like “be nice” and “you are not the only person in the world”
        and “if you play the ‘kick each other over the shins game’ then at least one of you will cry. Which is okay, but you gotta be prepared for it”
        and “GODDAMMIT DO NOT CLIMB TREES WITH A BROKEN ELBOW!**"
        and "hey when your nose is broken, maybe don’t play dodgeball?        ”
        and “your friend didn’t punch you out of nowhere, he punched you because you kicked him and those things are related, but yes I agree getting punched isn’t nice, don’t you think getting kicked isn’t nice too?”
        and “Hey remember yesterday when you came up to me, crying, because your friends wouldn’t let you play with them? Well now Sophia, your friend, is telling me you won’t let her play with all of you. Do you think Sophia feels like you felt yesterday? Oh I’m sure this game can accomodate one more person, since it’s the same game you were playing yesterday when it could suddenly accommodate you”

        • came_apart_at_Kmart [he/him, comrade/them]@hexbear.netEnglish
          4·
          20 days ago

          one of the more amusing/instructive bits i remember picking up is how kids don’t expect the adults to communicate with each other outside of what they see. like the benefit of cooperation and communication hasn’t sunk in yet, so its a magic superweapon that can be used against them. the staff had this post meal meeting where the kids would have supervised play in a big field and we took about 20-30 minutes to identify the days issues like little douchey cliques to separate or who was acting shitty earlier in the day or who was having a hard time and needs a little extra, because they all floated between our tracks however they wanted.

          the troublemakers and bullies were always baffled that yes, everyone else knows what clever moves you were pulling before lunch. like the adults were some other species of humanoid with a hive mind.

  • Budwig_v_1337hoven [he/him]@hexbear.netEnglish
    28·
    21 days ago

    It kinda funny how the German is already heavily loaded and trying to make it a bad thing, but the English translation is reducing any amount of nuance the original text still had left in it, painting it as this devil institution brainwashing young people into becoming soulless borg commies.

    for example, the original last sentence reads like this, faithfully translated: “Socialist morals and a positive attitude to life in a community were more important learning goals than the development of individual skills.”

    Here’s the whole thing, trying to be as faithful and transliteral as I can be to the original:
    Kindergarten served not only for childcare, it was also the first educational institution, anyone born in the GDR would visit. Obviously, because of this, state leadership had an interest in providing wide coverage: places at a Kindergarten were available for way more than 90 percent of children. The daily schedule was precisely planned and applicable to everyone: they would play together, eat together and have naps together - under instruction [you could read this as “guidance” too, but the tone of the original is very clearly already trying to make the supervision part of childcare into an evil commie thing, so yea]. Socialist morals and a positive attitude to life in a community were more important learning goals than the development of individual skills.

    • viva_la_juche [they/them, any]@hexbear.netEnglish
      19·
      21 days ago

      It’s funny bc I have a very rudimentary knowledge of German that never progressed beyond pointing at things and saying “der kase, das madchen” or whatever and I was going back and forth like “this does not look like it’s lining exactly” lol

      • UlyssesT [he/him]@hexbear.netEnglish
        2·
        20 days ago

        Fortunately, yes. It was about how awful the school was, and Maggie going rogue in it.

        Randroids are all about pretenses of rebellion while reinforcing a corporate police state, much like the GOP in general.

  • Lussy [any, hy/hym]@hexbear.netEnglish
    25·
    21 days ago

    The ritual was subject to rigid planning, the couple would move together as a collective, respond to thrusts made by the other, and even drink each other’s bodily fluids through various means and orifices.