“I think they’re both genocidal freaks.”

“Who are they genociding?”

“The Palestinians”

“So you think Kamala is worse than Cheeto head?”

It’s a smart play, really. You can’t deny genocide if you literally don’t comment on it or care about the core of my opinion (frustrating an oppressor is… le good! There are conditions where it would be unreasonable to condemn someone for violent resistance. The damage done to the oppressor in pursuit of the cessation of their subjugation is almost certainly irrelevant).

The other problem is actual genocide doesn’t bother a lot of people.

That’s because the entire West is and for centuries was founded upon and sustained itself upon the shoulders of genocide. It is literally baked into western civilization and in particular the US.

Biden himself helped spread a myth about genocide being committed in China.

In a vacuum, idfk. You probably could make some kind of argument regarding the very rapid industrial expansion of the Chinese bureaucracy into Xinjiang and the callousness with which state officials imposed national policy over the heads of locals.

But when Uighur=Genocide but Hamas=Had-it-Coming, what the fuck is any sane leftist supposed to say about China? We went from pointing to rapid urbanization of the western frontier and saying “This is a ruthless land grab by an imperial power!” to covering our eyes in Rafa and Beirut and Isfahan while shouting “Israel has a right to exist, okay!”

The other problem is actual genocide doesn’t bother a lot of people.

Genocide is just another political team sport. When the Bad Guys are doing genocide, its not bad because its the obliteration of whole population centers. Its bad because those populations were on Your Team and They’re Scoring Points Against You every time a swath of humanity gets culled like so much wheat caught in a combine. Israelis rant about Oct 7th because they’re upset Palestine put points on the board. That’s all.

It’s the same shit with Cuba and Venezuela and Haiti back on our side of the planet. The inhumanity is just Good Ethnicity scoring points on Bad Ethnicity. Its a big fucking game and we’re all just cheering for our side.

Yeah I remember using that as a rhetorical tool to get people to understand why the answer doesn’t “always lie in the middle;” as the “middle” of “no slavery” and “full slavery to whoever we want” is “slavery for some,” which is still untenable — and same goes for genocide or any number of other terrible things. Now I get browbeaten by democrat-voters about how “not supporting some genocide is supporting full genocide!!!” While the democrats do full genocide anyway, too. But just leak “news stories” about how biden is grumbling and frustrated with Netanyahu, while going around congress to funnel guns and bombs to them as fast as possible

They love calling things genocide because they have this idea in their head that word means you can’t disagree with them. They see how holocaust deniers are rightfully reviled, and their lib brains come to the conclusion that all accusations using the word genocide are somehow indisputable by nature

The libs fully realize that their lifestyles are dependent on crushing any opposition to empire,

maybe some in political power but the average american doesn’t know anything about any systems or their place in them

food comes from the grocery store.

Edit: oh yeah, Sudan too. Only brought up as a “whataboutism” whenever people talk about Palestine. Like they actually give a shit about African genocide.

The response should be “Oh, do you want to discuss the OTHER massive human tragedy that’s being underwritten with US financing and weapons?”

They only care about genocide when they’re told to by talking heads on tv. They’re against Russia “genociding Ukraine” and “Uyghur genocide.” There was also that brief bit during SOSCuba when people were saying that Cuba was committing genocide.

To libs genocide is just something bad people/bad country does. I don’t think they actually care about genocide on any of those cases. Its justca way to say “(State Department designated enemy) bad.” I can’t imagine believing that a genocide was actually being conducted in a the world’s largest manufacturer and only ever using it as some sort of rhetocical point. Why aren’t they trying to BDS China? It’s because they don’t actually care.

except that getting your balls crushed hurts. The only “hurt” inflicted on comfy liberals during the trump era was the incessant media coverage reminding them they are in the bad place now becuz of trump.

It’s such a fucking obvious lie that democrats are meaningfully better

Normal people will find out soon how bad the lies have been, and how bad Biden is. This will have an effect on a pretty substantial number of people.

Genuine question, what do you think the result of this will be? Because my outlook is not optimistic, to say the least. “Normal” people are simply libs waiting to be scratched, here.

but regular people, generic liberal apolitical randos, actually genuinely believe Biden is trying. They genuinely believe Harris is trying

If they do- I mean honestly, there’s that saying, “too dumb to live…”

Hell, this isn’t even the first (or second, or third) genocide the west has inflicted onto the Islamic world in the last decade, just the most explicit and total in its eradication. Western alleged ignorance (as someone living in and raised in the west) strikes me as exactly akin to, say, Nazi German citizenry’s ignorance, if not perhaps/probably even more blatant.

It’s a professed ignorance and “innocence,” sure. But it’s the kind that requires an immense and hateful (subconscious, if we’re being optimistic) bias, as well as the mental equivalent of plugging their ears and covering their eyes to ignore reality.

yeah honestly the defeatism and erasure is driving me up the wall. We’ve had unprecedented actions and growth of said actions every few years by the masses who are the ones who make history; from the mobilization and then radicalizations of disaffected left-liberals after the Bernie failure, to the George Floyd uprising and its aftershocks, and now these sustained anti-zionist protests calling to free Palestine that never would have happened like this a decade ago; while communists and socialist-unionists like IWW are and have been out there every day doing work organizing workplaces, including the PSL getting near nationwide ballot access and more coverage than the active corporate censorship of them when mentioning 3rd parties would have liked; and every socialist gun club from JBGC to SRA to MRA has seen swelling in numbers for the past 8 years. CPUSA grew so much that fed-opportunist-revisionist-national couldn’t manage its rank-and-file and had to purge a huge amount of branches of real communists around the country who were banding together to petition national against electoralism-for-genociders and for recognition of the colonial question — and are now free from that dead-end controlled organization who siphons people on name recognition alone. People are being increasingly screwed over and have been increasingly sympathetic to socialism. The degree to which it has become easier for me to express communist views and be heard compared to years ago (even early as pre-2016) is night and day. And there’s still work to be done.

Communism faces more undermining and damage from defeatists who think online doom-saying and bourgeois-media-landscapes are real reality and then project that outward to people who need to be inspired rather than deflated, than from the liberals and reactionaries themselves. Everyone who is able needs to join an org, and if one can’t, the least one can do is inspire and not erase your comrades who’ve been in the struggle for years as “no real leftist movement exists” or belittle and sap energy from mass movements with essentializing opportunist “it’s hopeless its all liberals and they all want genocide fascist victory is inevitable and we must flee or die;” which also ignores that everyone other than people raised by Marxists will start as liberals in the USA by default; and many of the people who came out in the Floyd uprisings and now against genocide were and are libs, or vague ‘leftists’ without political education and organization who just need onboarded, so liberals with socialist sympathies.

Ironically it’s a symptom of unpurged Liberalism for the socialists here who started out as Liberals to not have the long-term continuity of memory of one’s own transformation to do this derision of liberals as a ‘lost cause’ for bringing to our side. Imagine if others who affected their own political transformations said the same, where would they be? It’s naked opportunism at best; because most of the masses are liberals; even the “apolitical” disaffected workers are mostly liberals who have withdrawn from political activism because that’s the default of our western societies. Communists don’t fall from the sky, they are made by us leading by example proving demonstrating we are fighting and we are right and we are right to fight, as their own lived experiences and worsening conditions make it impossible to deny or ignore any longer. And as empire and climate collapses, this will only rapidly accelerate.

We need to be realistic and materialist with how we can best utilize our energy in the face of great odds against us (as has always been the case in every revolutionary movement) and not direct it uselessly toward petty bourgeois contrarians with no interest in the truth let alone organizing with us; but that being realistic goes both ways. Writing off the masses, who are the people who make history, and so the people that communists need to figure out how to lead; and writing off the people doing the work now and every day as ‘not going to make a difference’ rather than helping and joining them, is actively counter-revolutionary, and it is also not materialist; as capitalist crises will continue to get worse for working masses, that “centrist” position will vanish, and it is our job to lean the scales our way for the working masses and have the roads forward already opened for them and our slogans exposing the points-of-attack on the capitalist and imperialist contradictions burning in their minds from having already been hearing them.

I think the chuds are closer to believing that capitalism is their enemy than the die-hard liberals. Liberals believe the whole “it’s complicated” thing and they’re easy to keep confused. I agree that a lot are close. One of the biggest lib friends I have doesn’t accept a lot of my revolutionary thought, but he opposes the genocide and calls it what it is.

Chuds run on emotion. I’m never going to get them to read theory, but they know they’re getting a raw deal. The deal is going to keep getting worse, and, at least out here in SoCal, the scapegoat group thing only goes so far.

Polarization is clarifying. Anyone watching this happen and staying a lib is putting themselves on the side of fascism.

Well, not actually care. They will talk a big game, though. That’s for sure.