I don’t think the writers intended the Trill to be a an allegory for being trans. It was probably just supposed to be a cool sci fi stand in for being different. You can only show current, real life discrimination being non existent in the Federation in so many ways before you have to make up new things.
But it also doesn’t change anything. Trans allegory or not, it’s yet another instance showing how Star Fleet and the Federation value everybody, no matter if they’re different or how they’re different. Fuck the transphobes.
There’s that DS9 episode where Jadzia risks exile from Trill society to revisit an old relationship, and, if not necessarily trans, it reads pretty obviously as a queer allegory.
That’s the episode. It got a fair bit of press when it aired due to the “lesbian kiss”, which probably sounds ridiculous now, but that was like…wow, literally two generations ago. It was a wild time, it was just a year earlier that the U.S. military released its official policy on sexual orientation, which basically amounted to pretending that nobody is gay. On a personal note, I remember crying like a baby at the end of this episode when I first saw it and not understanding why it affected me so deeply. And holy crap, I’m now realizing it was my subconscious screaming “That’s you, dummy!!”
Oh, queer, sure. Star Trek has had plenty of queer relationships; she wasn’t the first. Trans is a whole different thing, though; queer is who you’re attracted to; trans is a self-identity topic. Trans says nothing about who you’re attracted to; you can be a gay trans person, a hetero trans person, a bi or asexual trans person. Trans(sexual) is about what plumbing you feel you should have, not whether you’re hetero or homo.
That’s how I feel, but I don’t think it takes away from people who see the situation as similar to being trans.
And also, just in general, it’s so easy to treat trans people with respect. It’s very easy, and if you do make a mistake on their pronouns or accidentally deadname someone, I’ve never ever had them take it offensively, just apologize and we move on.
That’s how I feel, but I don’t think it takes away from people who see the situation as similar to being trans.
I was speaking more about the intention of the writers at the time they made the character. Seeing it as an allegory for being trans is still 100% valid despite it probably not being the intentions of the writers.
I edited my comment to make that more clear.
And also, just in general, it’s so easy to treat trans people with respect. It’s very easy, and if you do make a mistake on their pronouns or accidentally deadname someone, I’ve never ever had them take it offensively, just apologize and we move on.
I don’t even think it’s symbolism from the Klingon’s perspective. It’s a bit different with the Trill extra personality there, but the objection is the actual point. That’s still Dax in there, even though they look different now.
A term of endearment they share, not seen as an insult, and all the more silly that the Dax symbiote is now hosted by a body younger than Sisko. It works well.
The reason people view Dax as a trans is that they were at times male and at times female. That is not symbolic of being trans, it is just being trans.
However, despite exploring what it means to be a trill passing through generations of hosts, the changing gender aspect of it never comes up. If Kurzon was a women, I doubt we would be talking about Dax as a trans stand-in, but I can’t think of a single plot point or character development that would meaningfully change.
Normally I’m a believer in death of the author, so I won’t be offended if anyone wants to completly ignore thus section, but in the DS9 documentary, they have a section on LGBT representation, and their big example for it was Jadzia. However, that was not for being trans, it was for being in a gay relationship.
Dax is the “soul”, Jadzia or Curzon are the bodies. Thus it seems that the gender of Jadzia Dax / Curzon Dax is entirely defined (or perhaps not defined at all?) by the body Dax is residing in. Whereas trans people in real world believe in a gendered soul that is independent of the body they are in… right?
But it’s not like I oppose some other interpretation of it.
Do the symbiots even have genders? How do they reproduce?
The first name comes from the host; the second name is the symbiot. Like, Jadzia was “Jadzia” before being joined, and was still called “Jadzia” after; she was just “Jadzia Dax” after joining. Curzon was the male host.
Do you think the Trill were a metaphor for trans people? Really? Given the symbiot factor, it seems a stretch.
It’s meant to be a stretch. Star trek has always done sci-fi twists on modern day problems. It’s meant to be “Why is it not weird for this sci-fi thing to happen, but weird when it happens in our every day life.”
Terry Farrell also knew full well when she joined that she would be playing a non-binary role through the show, and did so proudly. They also pretty much call it out directly in “Rejoined” when Dax comes in contact with her previous lover.
NOOO BUT SHE ISN’T TRANS SHE’S A TRILL WHICH IS DIFFERENT BECAUSE IT’S STILL DAX JUST FROM…
I don’t think the writers intended the Trill to be a an allegory for being trans. It was probably just supposed to be a cool sci fi stand in for being different. You can only show current, real life discrimination being non existent in the Federation in so many ways before you have to make up new things.
But it also doesn’t change anything. Trans allegory or not, it’s yet another instance showing how Star Fleet and the Federation value everybody, no matter if they’re different or how they’re different. Fuck the transphobes.
There’s that DS9 episode where Jadzia risks exile from Trill society to revisit an old relationship, and, if not necessarily trans, it reads pretty obviously as a queer allegory.
I still wouldn’t say that one reads as a trans allegory. The conflict arises from failing to meet social expectations, not from changes in gender.
But yeah, it definitely reads as a queer allegory.
What episode?
I think they are talking about “Rejoined” s4e5? https://m.imdb.com/title/tt0708588/?ref_=tt_mv_close
That’s the episode. It got a fair bit of press when it aired due to the “lesbian kiss”, which probably sounds ridiculous now, but that was like…wow, literally two generations ago. It was a wild time, it was just a year earlier that the U.S. military released its official policy on sexual orientation, which basically amounted to pretending that nobody is gay. On a personal note, I remember crying like a baby at the end of this episode when I first saw it and not understanding why it affected me so deeply. And holy crap, I’m now realizing it was my subconscious screaming “That’s you, dummy!!”
Oh, queer, sure. Star Trek has had plenty of queer relationships; she wasn’t the first. Trans is a whole different thing, though; queer is who you’re attracted to; trans is a self-identity topic. Trans says nothing about who you’re attracted to; you can be a gay trans person, a hetero trans person, a bi or asexual trans person. Trans(sexual) is about what plumbing you feel you should have, not whether you’re hetero or homo.
That’s how I feel, but I don’t think it takes away from people who see the situation as similar to being trans.
And also, just in general, it’s so easy to treat trans people with respect. It’s very easy, and if you do make a mistake on their pronouns or accidentally deadname someone, I’ve never ever had them take it offensively, just apologize and we move on.
I was speaking more about the intention of the writers at the time they made the character. Seeing it as an allegory for being trans is still 100% valid despite it probably not being the intentions of the writers.
I edited my comment to make that more clear.
Agreed
I think I read that the way you intended with your clarification, and it makes sense and I agree with you
I don’t even think it’s symbolism from the Klingon’s perspective. It’s a bit different with the Trill extra personality there, but the objection is the actual point. That’s still Dax in there, even though they look different now.
Sisko still calls her Old Man though. Somewhat ironically, but consistently.
Yeah, but less in a pronoun sense and more in a nickname. She never asked him to stop, if she did I’m guessing he would have stopped immediately
A term of endearment they share, not seen as an insult, and all the more silly that the Dax symbiote is now hosted by a body younger than Sisko. It works well.
It’s an honor to be given a nickname by The Sisko.
He calls Mirror O’Brian “Smiley”, and that’s also considered a term of endearment even though it was used as an insult by Mirror Sisko.
And he calls Picard “Wife-killer”, which Picard has never verbally objected to. :)
Its not symbolism.
The reason people view Dax as a trans is that they were at times male and at times female. That is not symbolic of being trans, it is just being trans.
However, despite exploring what it means to be a trill passing through generations of hosts, the changing gender aspect of it never comes up. If Kurzon was a women, I doubt we would be talking about Dax as a trans stand-in, but I can’t think of a single plot point or character development that would meaningfully change.
Normally I’m a believer in death of the author, so I won’t be offended if anyone wants to completly ignore thus section, but in the DS9 documentary, they have a section on LGBT representation, and their big example for it was Jadzia. However, that was not for being trans, it was for being in a gay relationship.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ya8WTQc93yI&t=5467s
Dax is the “soul”, Jadzia or Curzon are the bodies. Thus it seems that the gender of Jadzia Dax / Curzon Dax is entirely defined (or perhaps not defined at all?) by the body Dax is residing in. Whereas trans people in real world believe in a gendered soul that is independent of the body they are in… right?
But it’s not like I oppose some other interpretation of it.
Do the symbiots even have genders? How do they reproduce?
The first name comes from the host; the second name is the symbiot. Like, Jadzia was “Jadzia” before being joined, and was still called “Jadzia” after; she was just “Jadzia Dax” after joining. Curzon was the male host.
Do you think the Trill were a metaphor for trans people? Really? Given the symbiot factor, it seems a stretch.
It’s meant to be a stretch. Star trek has always done sci-fi twists on modern day problems. It’s meant to be “Why is it not weird for this sci-fi thing to happen, but weird when it happens in our every day life.”
Terry Farrell also knew full well when she joined that she would be playing a non-binary role through the show, and did so proudly. They also pretty much call it out directly in “Rejoined” when Dax comes in contact with her previous lover.