You’re hillarious, here’s a refresher of your own escaping https://lemmy.ml/comment/15056594

What’s “deflecting” about giving you very simple, clear historical evidence your argument is invalid?

You’d do anything not to accept the fact, that your argument is absolute bullshit, wouldn’t you?

Poles raided Moscow, and set their Czar btw, going straight through current day Belarus. So did the French reach it. So attempted the Germans. The argument of Ukraine being needed for that has no basis neither in history nor modern warfare.

If they won why is there fighting still going? And if it’s still going on now and drains Russian resources and bleeds the country (as NATO intends) then why would it stop? It would seem Russia only keeps stepping deeper into NATOs trap, whether it “won” or not? Can you please check what percentage of it’s GDP Europe spends militarizing vs the “winning” Russia? If I recall correctly Russian economic might could be matched by just Germany and Poland, and entire EU would be something like 3-4 times more easily? So if the European states alone want to fight it, they can do it indefinitely from Russian perspective.
As for Ukrainians, so happens I’ve been working with refugees, my team has been in touch with a few thousand of them, and majority of the team itself is Ukrainian or Belorussian. To put it mildly - you’re out of touch with reality. You understand very little of the hatred towards Russia that it has developed. And there are new generations growing up already, who’d been thought by Russia that neither election or just accepting Russian rule is not an option if they want to survive, the only option is force. There’s only that many watniks and North Koreans one can spend and still have a population that can recover. And if these are bleeding out against mostly 1980’s NATO equipment and modernized soviet era tanks, this would not work out better against less corrupt and much better armed states willing to train new generations of fighters willing to fight till their land is reclaimed? If you believed what you’re saying you’d understand there’s no chance for Russia to actually win.

Raczej głównie tankie więc Chiny, Rosja ale jak się okazuje też Serbia i Słowenia (bo skorumpowany jakoby “socjalistyczny” pro Chińsko/Rosyjski rzad). Na pewno racjonalna dyskusja nie ma sensu, bo po prostu ignoruje wszystko co mu nie pasuje i gra na obrażaniu/wytrącenia interlokutora z równowagi.

Z bardziej komicznych argumentów; “NATO sponsoruje nazistów w Ukrainie!” “ok, ale jest masa dowodów, że Rosja sponsoruje nazistów we Francji, Niemczech, Austrii i USA” “BRONIĄ SIĘ!” i tak w kółko. NATO w Ukrainie to strategiczne zagrożenie dla Rosji, ale w Finlandii już nie bo tam są lasy i zimno i nie da się walczyć, a przez Ukrainę jest dostęp do Rosji i to zagrożenie. Wskazanie 3 rosyjskich inwazji na Finlandię w XX w. zignorowane, 2 skutecznych inwazji które doszły do Moskwy idąc przez Białoruś i tego, że Niemcy próbowali 3 osiami, z których tylko jedna szła przez Ukrainę - jak grochem o ścianę. Ogólnie mam nadzieję, że mu płacą, bo jeśli nie to jest to bardzo przykry przypadek.

Mam też pewnie podejrzenia, co tego tego czyj to jest alias, ale póki nie złapię jakichś dowodów nie będę się outować.

Było to wrzucić zanim wszedłem w 70-komentarzową dyskusję z jednym z czołowych pro-ruskich fanatyków na lemmyml xD

Out of 2 forces that reached Moscow, which one went through Ukraine?

I’m not acting for some abstract morals, but against pointless death, imperialist rule and growth of feudal states. Russia as it is personifies most of that.

Russia can stop the war anytime by going back to it’s internationally recognized borders. And nothing says “russia won” like a film studio donating it’s antique tanks to MOD, and the state having to rely on rapists and murderers to win meters of terrain 1000 days into their 2-3 day operation. You’re beyond delusional. You’re cheering a idiot who just destroyed the demography of his already falling dystopian state for the sake of militarizing the rest of Europe against it.
And even if he won, one thing you will see is a campaign of terror directed at Russia by the Ukrainian and broader Slav underground by which the Chechen one was only symbolic.

https://gcaptain.com/first-panamax-containership-sprints-across-arctic-reaching-china-in-just-three-weeks/

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2024/11/18/russia-vetoes-sudan-ceasefire-resolution-at-un-security-council nato threathening the Sudani border of Russia as well? All Russia has to do to stop a war is getting the fuck out of Ukraine, and the killing stops.

Ever heard of north passage opening? Basically main economic oportunity for Russia other then its raw materials?

Out of 2 forces that reached Moscow, which one went through Ukraine?

BTW another pro-peace undertaking of Russia: https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2024/11/18/russia-vetoes-sudan-ceasefire-resolution-at-un-security-council

Oh but oil prices are the single most important factor to US policy, so any country that can influence them is a threat obviously? Just as much as possible Ukrainian NATO border is, but Finish NATO border is not, you know, it’s all logical!

Yeah, nazis growing to power has never lead to any deaths. You serious?

Even if NATO did that it’s Russian soldiers bombarding cities, and and Russian soldiers in Ukraine. You want to stop wars, everything that needs to be done is them going back to their country. Oh, and maybe, just maybe, the “sickos” simply know what Russian occupation of their countries looked like, some first hand? You ever consider that, or is there simply one side who has any rights?

Yeah, absolutely no invasions going over these forests whatsoever, apart for say these;

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finnish_War
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winter_War
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heimosodat

But I guess it’s only an invasion and imperialism if it happens to Russia?

Oh, and most effective ones against Russia itself? Never bothered with Ukraine;
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_invasion_of_Russia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polish–Russian_War_(1609–1618)

Even for nazis Ukraine was one of three axis of attack, but they never reached as far as the earlier two, partially due to the massive distances over the steppes.

So the fuck you talking about? Especially claiming to know any of the history of the region? Kiev Rus? Yeah, Moscow basically did not exist when it was at it’s height of power ffs. If you bothered to learn any history every surrounding country, including China, considers them a imperialist dangerous neighbor willing to invade given any chance, and always working toward that. With the small difference China is probably already marking Siberia as it’s territory nowdays.

And obviously you’re pretending that neither has the technology changed, and obviously 1000km of steppe is the best possible approach, since aircraft, drones, satellites and tactical missiles of nukes are not an option… This NATO bullshit was clearly checked when Scandinavians joined, Královec by the Baltic is now surrounded by it, borders extended in a tarain much harder to secure, a key new possible lifeline for Russian economy is threatened by Finish and Norwegian proximity, but no, somehow Ukraine would be a threat, and that’s why the fighting focuses not on a direction of capital, but on the resource rich areas. How can you be so blind?

I don’t trust any government, but even less so the less there are checks and feedback loops that limit their control. From my understanding of the Chinese system these are severely limited there, and from what I’m seeing about the Slovak one it’s simply corrupt in the CEE traditional way and leaning on authoritarian. My point is just that relations between small and massive states will never be equal, and if one goes ‘leeroy jenkins’ at it - it’s either painfully stupid or the effect of corruption. Another such case would be Ireland basically writing away all their gas/oil fields rights to Shell, and acting like a tax heaven for whatever IT multinational.

Ok, so how come Finland in NATO is not a problem?

If someones argument justifies pretty much any invasion, including some of the most egregious and vile wars in history there might be something wrong with the argument, or holding such an opinion.

Let’s say they do. How is that worse, or equal, to clearly sponsoring them it at least 4 much larger European countries?

Dunno, maybe cooperation with neighboring countries and only together setting joint deals with disproportionately larger countries? It’s just as absurd as Poland’s last government single-handedly attempting massive tread deals with USA. Each time smaller European countries attempt that they end up on a leash.