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- cross-posted to:
- [email protected]
US medical professionals will conduct a formal analysis of presumed remains, the coast guard said.
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We get it. They died. It’s tragic but this coverage is unnecessary and gratuitous.
It’s tragic
It’s probably sad for the people who are connected, but it’s not really all that tragic. Some people died doing something extremely risky.
@DerisionConsulting “it’s not really all that tragic”
It’s actually the classical definition of tragedy - an awful result that comes from the protagonist’s hubris
I find the 19yo kid’s death tragic. He was probably coerced into going. Everyone else, I quite agree with you.
I read somewhere that his dad (the second richest man on the sub, pakistani oligarch family member) pushed him to go because “it’s fathers day, we have to”.
It’s tragic that the 19 year old died, and I hope that his family can eventually cope with the fact that he got coerced into death by his own dad.
It has since been reported that Suleman Dawood was actually very excited about going on the sub, and had been previously disappointed when he couldn’t go the first time the dive was scheduled because he was only 17, so his mother was going to go instead. That dive was cancelled, he turned 18, and you know the rest.
Oh my goddamn give it a fucking break already. You can say the same about any other son who spent time with his dad when he probably didn’t want to. The fact that they were rich doesn’t make it evil for a father to want to spend time with his son. It’s not like he knew they were going to die; he didn’t intentionally drag his son along to his death.
Goddamn, I’ve never been more disgusted with the “good guys.” Coerced into death, are you fucking serious? Can we just investigate and analyze this empirically without making up reasons to hate the people involved? They’re dead, dude. Let it be.
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the sub’s builder and promoter set himself up for this.
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i’m not celebrating any of this. people died.
we have to recognize the guy behind this was a billionaire moron. he was obsessed with innovation over safety.
…Then why are you talking to me? I’m referring to the people who are blatantly and shamelessly celebrating this. If you are not doing that, then you’re not one of the people I’m talking about; my comment wasn’t about you.
I know he fucked up, he fucked up in just about every way you can fuck up, and he did it knowingly, willingly even. I fully support the investigation and exposure of every single thing that went wrong and why; that is how we learn from these things. We can do that while still showing basic decency and respect for the dead.
Right?! There’s innumerable dead adrenaline junkies maimed and killed all the time doing something that has a high mortality rate, by design!
Everyone’s just on pins and needles about this particular one because he’s among the global oppressor class.
But just like so many self-serving cultural views our oligarchs have pushed on us, a peasant with a death wish is crazy, a wealthy person with a death wish is eccentric.
I think it’s the presumption of godhood that so many of these alarmingly wealthy individuals have that makes stories like these so morbidly fascinating.
I can feel badly for them, each in their own way… but some small black-hearted part of me is just happy that for once, the asshole making the poor decisions suffered for them.
I mean, I can’t really tell you why, but I’m fascinated by this incident, so I’m interested in the stories that come out with new information.
probably because the ceo is an arrogant idiot
*was
we’re all learning more and more about noted shithead, Stockton Rush.
Mr. Rush is behind the whole debacle. I am concerned that he duped others and took their money, and people died.
And what part of this particular piece of journalism do you feel assists us in that endeavor?
nothing and everything. the whole story is ghoulish and macabre. that isn’t the fault of journalism.
The facts aren’t inherently ghoulish. The media attention to every macabre detail and society’s hunger for such trivialities is.
Nothing in this story or series of details helps to further the case of negligence. It serves only to feed the rage and satiate morbid curiosity.
Well said. Speaking ill of the dead says more about the speaker than the departed. It’s disgusting, and it’s extremely disappointing how many find it acceptable to say terrible things about someone just because they were rich.
Death is the equalizer. No matter who are in life, we all die the same. Those rich people didn’t get to take their money with them, they’re just dead. It’s like gloating to someone you just beat in a race. It’s over, and they lost. Show some goddamn respect.
the guy, Stockton Rush, was himself a ghoul.
In email messages seen by the BBC, Mr Rush had previously dismissed safety worries from one expert, saying he was “tired of industry players who try to use a safety argument to stop innovation”.
Seems as though he thought he was fighting against the stifling of innovation. In reality it seems he truly was unsafe and definitely should have had better oversight.
To be fair, though, it wasn’t the safety issues that got him, it was all that water.
To be fair, though, it wasn’t the water that got him, it was all that pressure. Lots of commas
The pressure is why I’m wondering what was survived. I mean, fire pistons are a thing- and that’s a far smaller pressure differential. They were probably flash-steamed before they ever knew what happened.
the forces involved in an implosion are significantly worse than the average person thinks. if they find anything that isn’t raspberry jam I’ll be very surprised.
Imo, closer to bacon jam. Yes. That’s a thing.
Peanut Butter Bacon Jam, Peanut Butter Bacon Jam, Peanut Butter Bacon Jam, Peanut Butter Bacon Jam.
theres probably tiny bits of remains left that didnt get blasted out in a crease or crevasse.
Deregulation WHEEEEEEEEE!!!
Never was any regulation. It operated only in international waters.
Just pointing out that perhaps the larger philosophy of broad deregulation maybe isn’t such a great idea
But that’s not the case here.
There isn’t any regulation of commercial submersibles like there is for ground or air. Anywhere around the world. So the “de” of deregulation is not applicable.
Should there be regulation? Yeah absolutely, if submersibles are going to be a thing. But that’s just called regulation.
i think they are trying to say this is a perfect example of where things will head if we continue with deregulating industry as republicans think we should. where your boss can say “fuck safety i wanna make more money and if a few people are killed or injured well thats the cost of doing business.”
Bingo. I’ve been to lots of countries with far fewer safety regulations than the US, and can we please stop fetishizing the cheapening of human life and well-being for profit in the US? Please? We came out of that phase in our development for good reasons.
What I’m hearing is we need a data center on a boat to make Netflix great again
Innovation does not equal cutting corners just to increase your bottom line
Exactly this. The reality is his submersible was dangerously unsafe, it’s a bit of a misconception that it was a ticking time bomb because of fatigue- that is a thing related to metallic (crystalline )structures and stress cycles-as a composite, CF doesn’t have that.
What Cameron was getting at is that with titanium and steel, it’s can be modeled very easily- and because steel has a relatively high tolerance before fatiguenstarts… they literally can engineer around it and make parts that effectively don’t have fatigue (unlike aluminum, where every elastic bend degrades it’s structure.)
The problem with composites is that they are very difficult to model. You degrade the polymer (that is epoxy) and it weakens the hull. You drop the sub on the deck, get a delaminated bit. Whatever, once there’s damage to the structure it’s done for.
CF bikes for example, used in professional bike racing are retired after a crash because there’s no way to examine delaminating off the edge, which makes them extremely dangerous to ride,
The kind of people unwilling to have 3rd party certification to do much as validate your pressure hill is thick enough is unlikely to scrap an entire custom pressure hill because some idiot screwed the monitor into it. (Or dropped it. Or noticed that there was some delam around the hatch or whatever else.)
Yes I saw in another video that monitor stands were attached to the wall somehow. Screws straight into the carbon fiber doesn’t sound ideal, although I think they had some sort of internal cage structure, so it probably wasn’t that bad.
If I were building a submersible, I’d have an internal fairing to allow mounting things like that, yes.
But then I’d also have included seats, and used viewport domes rated for the pressure depth…. And have someone not me give the sub a certification- because I recognize that I’m human and sometimes make mistakes.
screwing into cf might be fine if youre putting wider fenders on your car or whatever, but that sounds scary af if youre in a submersible.
It looked like a second layer, something with a bunch of tiny holes in it.
But… but… muh profits
And now that bottom line has been increased… to a large portion of the bottom of the ocean.
Why would anyone in their right mind think that safety precautions are in place to stop innovation?
I’m still holding out for a miracle. Maybe they’re just curled up in one of the corners, all safe and snug.
Yup, no shortage of oxygen, H2O after all
Typical media hype. Figures they’d ignore basic science for a few clicks.
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Oh my God who cares. Why are we expending literally any effort on this. Oh yeah. Cuz they were rich.
It may seem grotesque or insensitive but this may actually be pretty interesting scientifically. I don’t think there’s been any recorded deaths from a sub imploding at this depth.
And carbon fiber is still a relatively new material. Finding out how it failed might mean learning new ways to make it stronger.
They also need to analyze it to figure out why it failed to see if they can press any charges against the company.
Rich people die all the time, in hospitals. Nobody pays much attention.
The reason an imploding sub is getting attention is that sub implosions don’t happen every day. There were no millionaires aboard the Kursk, but everybody was talking about it after it imploded.
Tragedies on private subs are even more rare. When non-millionaire Kim Wall was murdered aboard the Nautilus, it got plenty of attention even though plenty of other people were murdered that day.
peers inside
Oof, Billionaire dust, don’t breath this.
Billionaire Dust! Captured from The Deep! Distilled and Trapped in a Powerful Tincture! Does not contain urine.
Get your titanic billionaire dust speck with certificate of authenticity! Only $99.95!
It’s what any proud capitalist would want, to have their remains monetized and sold off piece by piece and circulated like the currency they dedicated their life to hoarding, just like the Ferengi do from star trek!
oh dang are the Ferengi this dumb? I canna think they were but dam I forgot how.
They were. There was a DS9 episode where quark was sure he was goong to die and was pre-selling his body to collectors.
They were a critique of modern capitalists just as the Klingons were of the soviets. Unfortunately modern capitalism has become such a cartoon of insatiable greed, it’s become difficult to satirize.
thanks i never watched all of DS9
Ferengi capitalists never started major wars. They were better than. Pillars of the community. Earth capitalists were violent and British thugs…
Eh they didn’t drink jt in a tincture. Its the cremains sold as a collectible.
Which kinda makes sense. Given their culture.
I’m relieved to hear that an evolved human future doesn’t include conspiracy theorists on the radio shilling life elongation and dick pills
How do you know they don’t? ST universe was always pretty sterile. It would be like trying to define broader human culture from looking at Sunday school- of course no one is talking about any of that…
i’ve been to sunday school and bible camp. first of all, weird. that was weird. that was less weird than Unitarian Universalist church camp. the sterility of Star Trek was refreshing
Probably more like gelatinous ooze.
I don’t think they made it.
Did they check for a pulse?
I don’t think they had much in the way of catering on board. Peanuts might qualify but I’m not sure.
I want to know what they mean by presumed remains, I thought for sure they would be vaporized when the implosion happened. Like, is this a bone fragment or something? Surely there’s nothing identifiably human right?
Probably not a lot of examples of a composite pressure vessels imploding with humans inside, so even the expert speculation may be flawed for some unknown reason.
It meat that has gone through a hull implosion.
It could be human, it could be half a can of Spam… Would be hard to tell the difference without a DNA test.
It meat
Resisting the urge to post the expected comment here.
DKIM or SPF?
I know enough to understand that that should be really funny, but not enough to understand exactly why.
They’re tools used to detect / protect against spam.
Yes, that’s what I was plenty aware of. I failed to make the connection between spam (unsolicited email) and SPAM (the Hormel potted meat prduct), which was mentioned in the parent comment.
I’m just not always on my toes, it seems. I appreciate your apt hint.
Edit: Oh, I know why I didn’t connect. I was thinking of those as ways to verify a sender’s identity. By that operation, a consequence is that spam is prevented, but I was only focusing on the primary function.
Hehe. It was pretty obscure.
I guess the eels have left the hovercraft.
That’s been my thought as well. What, exactly, would there be? Are we talking about a whole human body? A fragment like a torso, leg, arm, etc.? My understanding was also that the occupants were vaporized during the implosion.
Bone splinters embedded in something, is all I can imagine staying recognizable.
It’s the ocean depths, not the surface of the sun.
Gas is compressible. So if you stepped into the water without any protection at extreme depth, every gas-containing part of your body would be crushed. That includes your nose, mouth, ears, throat, lungs, bowels, and most of the bones of your face.
Liquids are not very compressible. So the liquid parts of your body, like your eyes, brains, blood, and limbs, would not be affected very much. Maybe they would shrink almost imperceptibly. The same is true of the bones not in your face.
The final result would be a an oddly-smushed looking corpse, not a cloud of vapor.
Incidentally, this is why deep sea divers can swim at depth. They breathe very high pressure gas into their gas-containing parts, which thus remain inflated despite the pressure of the water.
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This may be the most wild of all, damn
