cross-posted from: https://lemmy.blahaj.zone/post/7477620
Transitive defederation – defederating from instances that federate with Threads as well as defederating from Threads – isn’t likely to be an all-or-nothing thing in the free fediverses. Tradeoffs are different for different people and instances. This is one of the strengths of the fediverse, so however much transitive defederation there winds up being, I see it as overall as a positive thing – although also messy and complicated.
The recommendation here is for instances to consider #TransitiveDefederation: discuss, and decide what to do. I’ve also got some thoughts on how to have the discussion – and the strategic aspects.
(Part 7 of Strategies for the free fediverses )
im not going to get into this, again, as im sick of asking the same thing and no one ever having a valid response so ill just state it.
theres no technical reason to think meta can overtake the ap protocol and substantially alter it in any appreciable way. that they have a federating server in threads is not some crazy threat unless your own shit becomes dependent on that federation. if it does, its on the instance owner not threads.
as it is, there is zero reason to not federate with threads other than substantial resource use (flooding) and righteous indignation.
i run a public instance, and as soon as threads interferes with it, i will nip that shit in the bud. until then, i plan on providing an offramp for those trapped in metas walled garden.
I don’t federate with any instance that openly houses hate groups. Threads houses hate groups.
There’s a reason for you.
It may not be enough of a reason for you, but that’s a whole different thing to there being “zero reason not to federate”
you got the righteous indignation part down pat.
its work to block instances. im not going to operate like that. im treating AP like email. i dont block facebooks SMTP, i dont block Nestle email… im not going to block their AP.
i am providing assistance to humans wanting to leave the walled garden. you are not capable of that, apparently.
but you do you. thats what its all about.
edit: btw none of this is technical in nature. its just political. i stand by the fact there is no technical reason to not federate.
This is minimising a problem you’d rather not think about or address “too much”. For many it’s a real problem, both morally or in the abstract, and practically.
Here’s a good article outlining an “anti-threads” position (https://erinkissane.com/untangling-threads) that may answer both the “righteous indignation” point and some of your “technical” points too.
All of which gets to arguing that, yes, as my initial reply to you stated, there are “existent” problems and preemptively acting can make sense.
You want to be an off-ramp, and have your finger on the defed button … that’s cool (genuinely)! But dismissing urgency as illogical or something is, I think, out of line.
Your arguments strike me as either dismissive (“zero reason … righteous indignation”), straw man (“resource use”, “overtake the ap protocol”) or excuses, frankly (“It’s work to block instances” … threads is like one instance).
The fact that you equate vulnerable communities blocking instances that house hate movements that target them with righteous indignation is genuinely scary…
I’m not sure I understand your issue with the term here. “Righteous indignation” word for word means “indignation that’s justified”, so I don’t want to jump to conclusions, and I’m thinking I may be having yet another of my English second language speaker moments.
Indignation implies that it’s about being offended or upset.
The specific term you used usually carries an implication of pettiness, and of making a big deal out of nothing. The “righteous” part is normally meant in an ironic or sarcastic way.
I’m not the same person you were initially talking to. I’m not sure calling it indignation is necessarily dismissive - indignation can perfectly be justified. I’m really surprised it carries this subtext. I can’t seem to find any reference or definifion supporting neither this nor the expression itself though, but I may be looking in the wrong place…
I think it’s another one of those things where words and phrases change meaning over time.
Righteous is equal to justifiable. Indignant is equal to showing anger.
Logically, it should mean justifiably angry. Often times, people will just ignore and skip over the first word and will only properly read “indignant”.
I think it’s similar to when people say words like “irregardless”. They use it to mean “regardless”. If you break the word down, the double negative makes it a positive. It looks like it should read as being the same as “regarding”, but people had other ideas lol
Another fun one: “eggcorn” has been added to some dictionaries as a synonym for “acorn”.
That’s what I meant. I’m perfectly open to believe it, but it’s also the very first time I hear « righteous indignation » carries this particular pejorative subtext, and I can’t seem to find a source substantiating the idea that it means petty anger.
What can a hate group do when Meta’s federated to an instance with vulnerable people in it, that they can’t do when Meta’s not federated with that instance?
Yeah people never explain that. As if people get stopped by this. It just makes the tech behind the federation actually useless just for some imaginary hypothetical threat that it wouldn’t stop anyways!
will hate groups spend extra time making fediverse account when previously didn’t
So there’s a difficulty barrier. They will have access to comments. What is the attack they would then perform?
is worse than having access to comments