(CW: chapters 4 and 5 contain explicit discussions of sexual assault)

Hello comrades, it’s time for our third discussion thread for The Will to Change, covering Chapters 4 (Stopping Male Violence) and 5 (Male Sexual Being). Thanks to everyone who participated the last few weeks, I’m looking forward to hearing everyone’s thoughts again. And if you’re just joining the book club this week, welcome!

I’ll be sharing my full thoughts later as there’s quite a lot of unpack in these chapters.

In Ch.4 hooks delves into how patriarchal repression of men’s emotional worlds most often manifests as violence and rage, especially against women and children, and how patriarchy conditions both young boys and young girls to perpetuate the cycle. Ch.5 explores how patriarchal attitudes extend to the bedroom and twist our popular conceptions of sexuality, sexual fulfillment, and physical and emotional satisfaction.

If you haven’t read the book yet but would like to, its available free on the Internet Archive in text form, as well as an audiobook on Youtube with content warnings at the start of each chapter, courtesy of the Anarchist Audio Library, and as an audiobook on our very own TankieTube! (note: the YT version is missing the Preface but the Tankietube version has it)

As always let me know if you’d like to be added to the ping list!

Our next discussion will be on Chapters 6 (Work: What’s Love Got To Do With It?) and 7 (Feminist Manhood), beginning on 12/18.

edit: the previous post didn’t have the proper links to the pdf book and audiobooks, sorry for that

  • dumples@midwest.socialEnglish
    11·
    7 days ago

    I feel like chapter 5 (Male Sexual Beings) did not ring as true as some of the others. There were some parts that I thought were spot on but overall I found it kind of sex and pornography negative. I feel like this might be because when the book was written (2004) there was as much kink, queer, women centric and feminist pornography as there are now. I think there have been lots of progress in this area over the last 20 years but this isn’t mainstream, especially for most cis, white straight men. The kink and / or queer sexuality (they are so blurred now) is a lot more egalitarian and feminist and includes an acceptance of domination in sexuality. bell hooks doesn’t talk about how this can be done safely and healthily but consenting adults for a short period during a pre-negotiated scene. The need to dominate and be dominated can be done safely sexually if people agree to it. The desires aren’t bad or evil but can be used to do actions that are.

    I do find her last passage enlightening:

    Sex was, and is, presented as the road to real intimacy, complete closeness, as the arena in which it is okay to openly love, to be tender and vulnerable and yet remain safe, to not feel so deeply alone. Sex is the one place sensuality seems to be permissible, where we can be gentle with our own bodies and allow ourselves our overflowing passion.

    This is true and I think is important to note about male sexuality. The current emphasis is not on pleasure, gentleness or closeness but rather on act of getting sex. Gentleness and sensuality is not acceptable for male sex and I think male desires are limited in the patriarchy. There are sets of bodies that we are suppose to find attractive and sex acts that are acceptable for Men.

    I wish there was more talk about how male sexuality is so phallic-centric with PIV for procreation as the only “real” sex. The emphasis on ejaculation as the best and only part that is enjoyable is very prominent and hides the fact that sex can be so much more and longer than just that 1 second. The rest of the male body is ignored even though it can be a source of pleasure the same as a woman’s body. It has taken me years to be gentle with the rest of myself and to understand what I actually like

    The dive into sexuality as well was illuminating, from the depictions of lust out of a desire for love and the almost “taboo” nature of discussing love helps me contextualize my own desires. I’m curious to see if Hooks dives further into incels as well. The depictions of sexual assault were deeply uncomfortable, as well.

    • AcidSmiley [she/her]@hexbear.netEnglish
      2·
      2 days ago

      I’m largely in the same boat as you here. I can’t say much about porn, as i simply do not care about the subject one way or another, but it was once more very apparent to me how expressly cis, heterosexual, mono, allo and vanilla hooks’ perspective is. There’s no queering of any kind in it. In earlier chapters that was interesting, sometimes even necessary to fill in the blanks of other feminist theory, but it kinda rubs me the wrong way when straight people make sweeping statements about gay sexuality.

      Like you, i was often reminded of sex-negative seperatist radfems that view all penetrative sex and all kink as patriarchal acts of violence. She doesn’t go all in on that in the way that Ur-TERFs like Sheila Jeffreys do, but it feels kinda problematic that she foregos her usual distancing from that crowd as soon as queerness enters the picture. That part just hasn’t aged well.

      That does not mean i disagree with her general assumptions about patriarchal sexuality, i’m fully on board with that and yes, i do extend that to some gay men. I’ve had too many moments on the dancefloor were my friends and me played “spot the aggressively horny bro before he starts hitting on us” to not have a personal vendetta with patriarchal male sexuality. The thing is, as a queer poly kinkster, alternatives to patriarchal sexuality are something that i live daily, and the kind of emotionally open, non-opressive, non-prescriptive sexuality that she demands is something that already exists. And you don’t have to be a lesbian to experience it, but you do have to at least talk to people who are part of communities that practice a reflected, open, consent-centric way of talking about sex and relationships.

      • dumples@midwest.socialEnglish
        2·
        2 days ago

        I’ve had too many moments on the dancefloor were my friends and me played “spot the aggressively horny bro before he starts hitting on us” to not have a personal vendetta with patriarchal male sexuality.

        We’ve all seen this guy and hate this guy. They are usually the same guy who calls all women “bitches” and claims that women don’t like sex. No dude you are the problem and its guys like you that are stopping women / everyone from being / feeling safe enough to express themselves. As you mentioned there are alternatives to patriarchal sexuality out there already where women can feel safe enough to be their true selves.

        And you don’t have to be a lesbian to experience it, but you do have to at least talk to people who are part of communities that practice a reflected, open, consent-centric way of talking about sex and relationships.

        The great news for anyone who is interested is that the sex positive consent-centric community is out there in all kinky, queer spaces and they have been learning and sharing together for decades. (This is because the patriarchy have been calling them all perverts and deviants for decades so they have had to build a community outside of it for a long while) The advice you will hear there is almost identical to what most sex positive therapists would give because they are sharing the best evidence based practices. Hot and Unbothered, The New Topping Book and The New Bottoming Book are all good suggestions if anyone is interested.

        If anyone wants some queer / feminist / women centric porn I would recommend Erika Lust, Crashpad Series and ForPlay Films. Dipsea is your best source for audio erotica.