Very much this. The atmosphere here doesn’t feel any different than it did back on reddit, for better or worse. I feel like there was a time when reddit was less pessimistic, but there’s been at least a little of that vibe for a long time.
Agreed. What I’m really curious about, though, is how the atmosphere here is gonna change as thrediverse culture starts diverging from reddit. Are we going to stay depressed, are we going to gradually trend more optimistic, or will something completely different and unpredictable happen?
Yup, when I’ve been in real depressive moods I’ve read stuff on that site, and man it’s as depressing and pessimistic as you can imagine. The worst are those who almost cheer for the world to collapse.
Not just that, it’s like they are actively trying to find ways to make it worse and somehow complain about what is happening at the same time as they put down any one or anything that provides change and hope.
Yeah, we know it’s shit but you don’t have to actively make it shitter
The difference should be that here, we should be more of a “things do suck, but we should still do all we can to make it not suck as much.” instead of reddit’s “there is nothing we can do” attitude.
It’s not just here, it’s people in general. I find that most people are pretty pessimistic about the future or they don’t care at all. That second group is generally the group that’s not (or barely) on the internet
And then they wonder why progress isn’t being made when they just don’t give a shit or do anything to enact change if it isn’t “good enough”. Real progress historically has been something humanity has to work for even if it involves clawing our way to a better world one painful inch at a time. This kind of pessimism is basically an excuse to pretend to care but not actually have to do anything to fix stuff because “what’s the point?” 🙄
I renovated a house from the ‘70s last year. We now have triple glazing instead of single panes, the roof and side of the house are inslutated, we got solar panels, water-saving showers, a greener water heater (would’ve loved to move away from gas, but my budget only stretches so far and the asbestos roof will have to be replaced in a couple of years), and soon the driveway will have its’ non-porous gravel replaced with pavers designed to let water through.
Global warming won’t be fixed by that, but if we all start making greener choices when we can I have hopes we can avert the worst.
That’s the general outlook as it seems. I find it extremely disconcerting…
Because although it looks bleak at a glance, things could be A LOT worse and things are getting better. It’s just that we get flooded with so much negativity throughout all sorts of phases in our daily lives…
Eh that’s some good point you highlight. Personally I find Lemmy to be much smarter on average than reddit, so I don’t know what to think about the pessimism that also exists.
Yeah but seems that no one gives a fuck. US and China are still the greatest polluters and don’t seem to care, Europe besides still seeming to want to do something, is not ready to press this both especially now with the Ukraine war so, yeah, we are pretty fucked up.
The US passed the largest climate bill in human history last fall, Europe is now getting a plurality of its energy from carbon-free sources (and growing rapidly), and China’s continuing to make progress too. And the reason that’s all happening is because of all the people who care, who’ve been pushing for change this past decade.
It’s not enough, but it’s a huge step in the right direction-- and it’s proof we can accomplish even more if we keep standing together.
Germany is building coal plants, pretty much the rest of Europe is transitioning away from fossil fuels at a breakneck pace.
(And to be fair, Germany’s also investing heavily in clean energy and has made huge progress on that front. They just made the incredibly stupid decision to shut down their remaining nuclear plants before they had enough clean energy sources to make up for the power difference, which is why they’re temporarily using coal as a stopgap.)
Just checked: Apparently the last one got finished 2020, an 1GW block in Datteln.
The newest list I could find is from the BUND, 2016, the Datteln one is the only one that got built. If there were more projects the BUND would definitely have kept updating that list, they’re tree-huggers, of course they would.
And frankly speaking a certain number of new plants were sensible even with the end of the technology already being a decided thing: Old ones are way less efficient than new ones so it’s better to have the last ones to shut down be highly efficient ones, producing more energy for the CO2 they emit.
Exactly - and Datteln 4 was started in 2007. It was even projected to have the first commercial Carbon Capture System…selling it to Canada though, seemed the wiser idea to some. The canadians sold the license to use the technology to Australia and made a fortune.
My bad, I mixed it up with them increasing coal consumption / expanding existing coal mines. The overall point stands though that even as stupid as shutting down all the nuclear plants was, Germany’s still on a good path long-term when it comes to fighting climate change-- and the rest of Europe is making impressive progress, too.
Germany “making progress in investing in clean energy” is the understatement of the milennium. Without the cash injection brought about by the German feed-in tariffs wind and solar still would be completely uncompetitive instead of (in many circumstances) cheaper than fossil and nuclear.
And, then, well, we had 16 years of a conservative government trying their darnest to fuck up the transition.
And, then, well, we had 16 years of a conservative government trying their darnest to fuck up the transition.
That is not true. Read up on what actually happened. The EEG was thought up by Hermann Scheer and Hans-Josef Fell. SPD and Grüne. The EEG failed miserably, when the “AufglMechV” came in to effect and pulled fossile fuel prices up like crazy. Because that meant the “Merit-Order-Effect” came in to play, meaning the falling use of fossile fuels ment that the EEG-Umlage spiked like crazy. The issue with that was that the power net back then was a lot more fragile than it is now (and it still is fragile), meaning fossile fuels provided “Grundlast” and between 2010 and 2013 the EEG was not enough. That on the other hand meant that the projections for the manufacturers of wind turbines looked very bleak and most of them folded and gave up, before they had massive losses. The fact that the European Union Emissions Trading System also “backfired” due to the crash in 2008 and took until 2017 to actually get on track made things even worse, behause that meant that instead of prices for burning fossile fuels getting higher - they got lower and renewables got more expensive.
The issue stays with the EEG, because it had a fatal and fundamental design flaw that made acceptance in the general public extremely hard: The basic main part of the EEG had to be shouldered by the “normal” population. And these were already estimated in 2010 at over 2200 billion euros in additional costs. Everything that happened every since 2013 didn’t make that situation any better.
The only thing that the black-yellow coalition really screwed up completely was the extension of the exemptions from the EEG. But by that point, things already were in Motion anyway. The whole thing has been a clusterfuck of monumental proportions, where so many things have gone wrong at so many corners, so many people and so many decisions are to blame, to simply break it down to one government is WAY too simplistic and only makes things worse - and actually helps the AfD and their stupid rethorics
The only thing that the black-yellow coalition really screwed up completely was the extension of the exemptions from the EEG.
And allowing Bavaria to de facto outlaw wind energy. And not building nearly enough transportation capacity, especially north-south. Killing the domestic solar industry (though that’s more of a “we don’t need to jobs” issue, China is producing plenty of panels). Not doing nearly enough on the consumption side, *broadly gestures at the state of rail infrastructure*. Allowing coal plants to operate way longer than necessary. The list is quite long indeed, following the general scheme of “let’s listen to BMW and huff truck exhaust instead of listening to MunichRe telling us about god’s next great flood and them being unable to back the damages”.
The AusglMechV came 10 years after the EEG was passed, and yes legislation often needs adjustment it just so happened that it was passed by Red-Green and adjusted by Black-Yellow because that’s who was in government when it was done.
What I was specifically talking about was the EEG pushing enough money into the industry to get it up and running, bringing down the price in terms of Euro/MW drastically. It’s no coincidence that what 15 years or so into the EEG you saw windmills sprouting in countries without comparable laws: They had become price-competitive.
The basic main part of the EEG had to be shouldered by the “normal” population.
Electricity being expensive for the consumer was part of the plan to induce demand for more efficient fridges etc. Yeah the Greens aren’t a particularly left party they don’t care about chips falling where they happen to fall. A PDS/Green government wouldn’t have used market regulation but direct state action and spent probably about as much, just from more equitable sources.
Forget it again, because it’s utter BS. Germany hasn’t built a new coal plant since 2007. Datteln 4 was also planned to have a CCS (Carbon Capture System) - there where however massive protests against CCS in 2009 and in 2011 there was a new law…but it was too late and the CCS technology was bought by Canada. Austria outlawed CO2 Storage completely.
that doesn’t seem right at all? I mean progress is slow because things in Europe and the US are much less centralized. But just gaving a look and compare between Europe and the US, and other countries should make you understand that things are just better. Granted not good enough but nothing is gonna happen instantly. China is another thing.
That’s not nearly enough or fast enough though, the planet is dying now
I hear you but we can still celebrate progress. It’s really disheartening if you shit on every time somebody does something in the positive direction
Seriously, a big thing I’ve noticed here is that the general vibe of Lemmy seems morose and pessimistic as fuck.
Because most lemmy users used to be redditors, and redditors are morose and pessimistic as fuck.
Hey I was morose and pessimistic long before reddit and will be so long after thank you very much!!!
Very much this. The atmosphere here doesn’t feel any different than it did back on reddit, for better or worse. I feel like there was a time when reddit was less pessimistic, but there’s been at least a little of that vibe for a long time.
Agreed. What I’m really curious about, though, is how the atmosphere here is gonna change as thrediverse culture starts diverging from reddit. Are we going to stay depressed, are we going to gradually trend more optimistic, or will something completely different and unpredictable happen?
Not even remotely as bad as the pessimism on Reddit
Have a look at r/collapse to see how pessimist reddit csn be
Yup, when I’ve been in real depressive moods I’ve read stuff on that site, and man it’s as depressing and pessimistic as you can imagine. The worst are those who almost cheer for the world to collapse.
Not just that, it’s like they are actively trying to find ways to make it worse and somehow complain about what is happening at the same time as they put down any one or anything that provides change and hope.
Yeah, we know it’s shit but you don’t have to actively make it shitter
The difference should be that here, we should be more of a “things do suck, but we should still do all we can to make it not suck as much.” instead of reddit’s “there is nothing we can do” attitude.
Indeed. Defeatism serves the fossil industry and is probably funded by it.
It’s not just here, it’s people in general. I find that most people are pretty pessimistic about the future or they don’t care at all. That second group is generally the group that’s not (or barely) on the internet
And then they wonder why progress isn’t being made when they just don’t give a shit or do anything to enact change if it isn’t “good enough”. Real progress historically has been something humanity has to work for even if it involves clawing our way to a better world one painful inch at a time. This kind of pessimism is basically an excuse to pretend to care but not actually have to do anything to fix stuff because “what’s the point?” 🙄
I renovated a house from the ‘70s last year. We now have triple glazing instead of single panes, the roof and side of the house are inslutated, we got solar panels, water-saving showers, a greener water heater (would’ve loved to move away from gas, but my budget only stretches so far and the asbestos roof will have to be replaced in a couple of years), and soon the driveway will have its’ non-porous gravel replaced with pavers designed to let water through.
Global warming won’t be fixed by that, but if we all start making greener choices when we can I have hopes we can avert the worst.
That’s the general outlook as it seems. I find it extremely disconcerting… Because although it looks bleak at a glance, things could be A LOT worse and things are getting better. It’s just that we get flooded with so much negativity throughout all sorts of phases in our daily lives…
Eh that’s some good point you highlight. Personally I find Lemmy to be much smarter on average than reddit, so I don’t know what to think about the pessimism that also exists.
Yeah but seems that no one gives a fuck. US and China are still the greatest polluters and don’t seem to care, Europe besides still seeming to want to do something, is not ready to press this both especially now with the Ukraine war so, yeah, we are pretty fucked up.
The US passed the largest climate bill in human history last fall, Europe is now getting a plurality of its energy from carbon-free sources (and growing rapidly), and China’s continuing to make progress too. And the reason that’s all happening is because of all the people who care, who’ve been pushing for change this past decade.
It’s not enough, but it’s a huge step in the right direction-- and it’s proof we can accomplish even more if we keep standing together.
Europe is building coal plants rn
Germany is building coal plants, pretty much the rest of Europe is transitioning away from fossil fuels at a breakneck pace.
(And to be fair, Germany’s also investing heavily in clean energy and has made huge progress on that front. They just made the incredibly stupid decision to shut down their remaining nuclear plants before they had enough clean energy sources to make up for the power difference, which is why they’re temporarily using coal as a stopgap.)
Germany is not building new coal plants, ffs. Stop this bullshit and inform yourself before that.
Just checked: Apparently the last one got finished 2020, an 1GW block in Datteln.
The newest list I could find is from the BUND, 2016, the Datteln one is the only one that got built. If there were more projects the BUND would definitely have kept updating that list, they’re tree-huggers, of course they would.
And frankly speaking a certain number of new plants were sensible even with the end of the technology already being a decided thing: Old ones are way less efficient than new ones so it’s better to have the last ones to shut down be highly efficient ones, producing more energy for the CO2 they emit.
Exactly - and Datteln 4 was started in 2007. It was even projected to have the first commercial Carbon Capture System…selling it to Canada though, seemed the wiser idea to some. The canadians sold the license to use the technology to Australia and made a fortune.
My bad, I mixed it up with them increasing coal consumption / expanding existing coal mines. The overall point stands though that even as stupid as shutting down all the nuclear plants was, Germany’s still on a good path long-term when it comes to fighting climate change-- and the rest of Europe is making impressive progress, too.
Germany “making progress in investing in clean energy” is the understatement of the milennium. Without the cash injection brought about by the German feed-in tariffs wind and solar still would be completely uncompetitive instead of (in many circumstances) cheaper than fossil and nuclear.
And, then, well, we had 16 years of a conservative government trying their darnest to fuck up the transition.
That is not true. Read up on what actually happened. The EEG was thought up by Hermann Scheer and Hans-Josef Fell. SPD and Grüne. The EEG failed miserably, when the “AufglMechV” came in to effect and pulled fossile fuel prices up like crazy. Because that meant the “Merit-Order-Effect” came in to play, meaning the falling use of fossile fuels ment that the EEG-Umlage spiked like crazy. The issue with that was that the power net back then was a lot more fragile than it is now (and it still is fragile), meaning fossile fuels provided “Grundlast” and between 2010 and 2013 the EEG was not enough. That on the other hand meant that the projections for the manufacturers of wind turbines looked very bleak and most of them folded and gave up, before they had massive losses. The fact that the European Union Emissions Trading System also “backfired” due to the crash in 2008 and took until 2017 to actually get on track made things even worse, behause that meant that instead of prices for burning fossile fuels getting higher - they got lower and renewables got more expensive.
The issue stays with the EEG, because it had a fatal and fundamental design flaw that made acceptance in the general public extremely hard: The basic main part of the EEG had to be shouldered by the “normal” population. And these were already estimated in 2010 at over 2200 billion euros in additional costs. Everything that happened every since 2013 didn’t make that situation any better. The only thing that the black-yellow coalition really screwed up completely was the extension of the exemptions from the EEG. But by that point, things already were in Motion anyway. The whole thing has been a clusterfuck of monumental proportions, where so many things have gone wrong at so many corners, so many people and so many decisions are to blame, to simply break it down to one government is WAY too simplistic and only makes things worse - and actually helps the AfD and their stupid rethorics
And allowing Bavaria to de facto outlaw wind energy. And not building nearly enough transportation capacity, especially north-south. Killing the domestic solar industry (though that’s more of a “we don’t need to jobs” issue, China is producing plenty of panels). Not doing nearly enough on the consumption side, *broadly gestures at the state of rail infrastructure*. Allowing coal plants to operate way longer than necessary. The list is quite long indeed, following the general scheme of “let’s listen to BMW and huff truck exhaust instead of listening to MunichRe telling us about god’s next great flood and them being unable to back the damages”.
The AusglMechV came 10 years after the EEG was passed, and yes legislation often needs adjustment it just so happened that it was passed by Red-Green and adjusted by Black-Yellow because that’s who was in government when it was done.
What I was specifically talking about was the EEG pushing enough money into the industry to get it up and running, bringing down the price in terms of Euro/MW drastically. It’s no coincidence that what 15 years or so into the EEG you saw windmills sprouting in countries without comparable laws: They had become price-competitive.
Electricity being expensive for the consumer was part of the plan to induce demand for more efficient fridges etc. Yeah the Greens aren’t a particularly left party they don’t care about chips falling where they happen to fall. A PDS/Green government wouldn’t have used market regulation but direct state action and spent probably about as much, just from more equitable sources.
I just forgot this, this is just the top of the cake
Forget it again, because it’s utter BS. Germany hasn’t built a new coal plant since 2007. Datteln 4 was also planned to have a CCS (Carbon Capture System) - there where however massive protests against CCS in 2009 and in 2011 there was a new law…but it was too late and the CCS technology was bought by Canada. Austria outlawed CO2 Storage completely.
that doesn’t seem right at all? I mean progress is slow because things in Europe and the US are much less centralized. But just gaving a look and compare between Europe and the US, and other countries should make you understand that things are just better. Granted not good enough but nothing is gonna happen instantly. China is another thing.
It’s still better than nothing.