• Diabolo96@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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    17 days ago

    I I genuinely wonder what would change? What’s worse than denying and backing the genocide with weapons, soldiers and money under Biden? What worse could Trump do?

    • Lauchs@lemmy.world
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      17 days ago

      The West Bank, where roughly half of Palestineans live was more or less left alone as one of yhr administrations red lines (also, Iran’s oil/nuclear facilities.)

      With trump incoming, it seems Israel feels they have a green light to expand in the West Bank.

      • NoneOfUrBusiness@fedia.io
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        17 days ago

        Israel have been aggressively expanding in the West Bank since October 7, and intensified their campaign at around the same time they started the war with Lebanon. There are no red lines.

        • Lauchs@lemmy.world
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          17 days ago

          What new settlements happened thete in the last year? You are conflating an increase in tensions and conflict with expansion.

            • mightyfoolish@lemmy.world
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              17 days ago

              You are arguing with absolute liars. It’s like people only thinking this mess accelerated under Biden (who is the most paid politician by AIPAC) is just a coincidence. As if Israel hasn’t been expanding into some of the most important Palestinian cities while the world focuses on Gaza.

              It’s the same people who say what can Biden possibly do while funding their military operations. Trump sees the praise Biden is getting from Congress and actually thinks Biden must have been doing something right. Yet, somehow there was a good choice for people who want to see Palestine prosper (Those who pretend that Harris would do better because she doesn’t shout her plans out like some cliché comic book villain).

              But let’s call Trump a huge liar and let’s take his word at face value when it’s convenient for us. I’m sure the Democrats who never learn a thing will be excited to lose the next election as well. Obviously, Trump won’t be a good president but Democrats lost because they were seen as slightly less evil but with no charisma.

              It’s not us, everyone else is just stupid. - Democrats

            • Lauchs@lemmy.world
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              16 days ago

              From the article:

              In the past year, about 4,555 Palestinians have been displaced in the West Bank after Israeli forces demolished their homes.

              Now, I’m no mathematician but surely you understand that’s orders of magnitude fewer than have been displaced in Gaza, right? Please?

              • NoneOfUrBusiness@fedia.io
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                16 days ago

                Yes, because violence in the West Bank has always been lower-level than the violence in Gaza. I’m not sure what point you’re trying to make is.

                • Lauchs@lemmy.world
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                  16 days ago

                  Always does not mean “since I started paying attention” but regardless…

                  Anyway, you’re so close! Let’s tey the socratic method, given that the West Bank has been an Israeli target for years, why do you think the violence has been at such a lower level than Gaza since the rapes and murders of Oct 7th?

                  And why did that coincidentally change days after the election, with Smoterich now directing “the start of professional work to prepare the necessary infrastructure to apply Israeli sovereignty over Judea and Samaria.”

                  If you’re ruling out Biden etc, was it just a wild miracle of timing?

                  • NoneOfUrBusiness@fedia.io
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                    16 days ago

                    Always does not mean “since I started paying attention” but regardless…

                    Huh? Are we even talking about the same conflict? This has been the case since 2005 when Israel disengaged from Gaza.

                    why do you think the violence has been at such a lower level than Gaza since the rapes and murders of Oct 7th?

                    Uh… Because there’s no resistance worth mentioning in the West Bank? They don’t need to do much for their colonial project in the West Bank, but if settlers tried entering Gaza they’d just be shot.

                    And why did that coincidentally change days after the election, with Smoterich now directing “the start of professional work to prepare the necessary infrastructure to apply Israeli sovereignty over Judea and Samaria.”

                    It didn’t change, but that aside he might’ve felt emboldened to say it out loud, but we still don’t know if the rest of the Israeli government will allow that. In case they do anytime soon, the only conclusion would be that there were plans for such an action from before the election.

      • Diabolo96@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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        17 days ago

        Thank god that the Palestinian that got their land stolen and are living like second grade citizen under apartheid are no touch. All thanks to daddy US !. You and I both know the red line is to not bomb their own Israeli settlers, right? They always had the green light… nothing really changed.

          • Diabolo96@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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            16 days ago

            If you deny that they’re living under apartheid, the term used by south Africa itself to describe the palestinian situation, then there’s need to discuss any further.

            • Lauchs@lemmy.world
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              16 days ago

              With all respect, I had to chuckle at this as it reminded myself of me, a quarter century-ish ago, when after having watched Colin Powell give his speech to the UN about weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, I confidently supported it. Then, a kind socials studies teacher pointed out the retrospectively obvious, just because a government says it, doesn’t make it true. But he did so without making me feel belittled or dumb so I’ll try to pass on the favour.

              I’d think of it though like when trump as President says there was massive electoral fraud, when Hungary/Belarus argues for denazifying Ukraine etc. Just because a government is saying something does not make it true.

              In the case of South Africa, context is huge, so let me share that with you.

              Since actual Apartheid, South Africa’s been ruled for 30 uninterrupted years by the ANC, which wins largely on the basis of being A) Mandela’s party and B) the symbol of anti-colonialism etc. In the last 15 or so years though, progress has pretty much stopped (the stats on indoor plumbing, electricity, youth unemployment etc are heart breaking) and they’ve started bleeding support especially to harder, more populist, vehemently anti white parties (the two main rivals argue for seizing any white farms) on the one side and the technocratic but “whitey” party, the DA on the other side. Coming into this year, the polls and election results were the worst that the ANC has ever suffered, leading to a humiliating, first ever, coalition government with the ANC and the DA.

              Amidst this backdrop, Gaza happened. I cannot imagine an easier symbol of the ANC’s anti-colonial roots than lobbying a very anti colonial case at the ICJ. All the benefits of identity politics and symbolism with almost zero cost. Especially when you consider the ANC almost certainly expected they were going to have to form an unpopular coalition government and to avoid burning the country down, would do so with whitey’s colonial party. (And yes, Ramaphosa absolutely touted and campaigned on his government’s cases at the ICJ.)

              Edit: Sorry, Ramaphosa is the president of South Africa and leader of the ANC. Also, even without the domestic backdrop, you might consider their BRICS membership and what that entails.

    • AA5B@lemmy.world
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      16 days ago

      The current issues will end, Biden was at least making noises to get it to stop, Biden was trying to prevent the regional war Iran has been working on, and there were decent indications there would be recovery funding.

      Trump indicated none of that and all signs point to encouraging more atrocity

      • Diabolo96@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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        16 days ago

        Trying to stop a genocide is trying to start a regional war ? You guys have an extremely skewed view of the world.