I bet half the people in here were liberals and believed the media narratives before they were radicalized and have forgotten. Thankfully there were people in their lives who radicalized them who didn’t have these kinds of rigid anti-social frameworks regarding tactics in mass politics and agitation/education. I bet half the people in hexbear and socialist orgs in general in the US voted for Democrats Obama-Clinton even after they’d begun heinous destruction of Libya and Syria and all the slavery and ethnic cleansings. I bet many voted against Trump for Clinton after Obama started with Saudi and others to committing the Yemen genocide and bombing of weddings and hospitals etc. because they also bought into “lesser evilism” or otherwise believed what the media told them, before their political development changed their perspectives; so also by this logic “cowardly little hearts dumb fucking crackers etc. etc. etc. barbara pit never forgive etc.etc.” Why would anyone be convinced by this attitude?

There is and has been and will be defections happening en masse from the democrats — since 2016 even, and exponentially now, as much as there has been any change from the status quo toward a further increase of ‘immediately en masse announcing unconditional support and attacking defectors’. And these defectors from the Democrats weren’t spurred by people on the left abusing them and saying they deserve death and we’ll never forgive them etc. Not a single one. IN FACT MANY ARE SPURRED THE OPPOSITE AND LEAVE THE DEMOCRATS BECAUSE OF THE DERANGED SHITLIB ABUSE OF CRITICS so you’re not helping by doing the same exact thing as the hardcore democrats just from another angle. Communists are able to be right because of their ability, with historical and dialectical materialist conceptions of history, economics, and class, to have coherent, incisive, structural critiques on systems and mass movements in their class representation; with which to drive and agitate along existing sharpening contradictions to create ruptures and breakthroughs and realignments in class society for the benefit of and/or for the political education of the working class; not because they can be the best at being spiteful or mean toward random liberal voters in a hegemonic liberal environment over not having already developed internationalist class consciousness good enough or media/propaganda awareness and criticality good enough, and by being driven to act in ineffective, destructive, or self-destructive ways by ignorant fear and shallow charlatanry by their politicians, media, and people around them like everyone is set up to do and driven to do from day 1.

Many of the relatively politically conscious democrat voters don’t even deny the atrocities and certainly aren’t cheering it; they just get duped into media narratives that Trump is so much worse on this as well as everything else and Trump is Hitler and etc. etc. and don’t realize how actively complicit, and compliciltly feckless, the Democrats are with all of these same terrible things; and are scared into helping Democrats as the structure is built to make them do as even many communists including in hexbear were duped into before as well. A lot of Democrat voters don’t even know much about realities beyond what the media tells them about, it’s just project 2025 and various whitewashes. Many don’t know the full truth of the border camp situation being just as bad or worse than under Trump until they are taught and showed that Biden deregulated the camps and allowed for and advertised with state money the private subcontracting of the concentration camps for private profit; while issuing executive orders to shut down the border entirely like Trump tried to do who was himself blocked by the courts because it was too extreme. Which is another point of agitation in the list of increasingly sharp and increasingly obvious contradictions between Democratic party’s stated goals and what the media states about their goals and purposes vs what they actually do, to continue railing against Democrats for and explaining to working class voters why starving them of margins will break the duopoly because of the Democrats’ structural inability to reorient to the left; wedging them apart into support for 3rd parties and radical organizing, which is happening and has been happening and will increase with every political actor who keeps perspective to do so.

“Never forgive” what does that even mean? Are you going to car bomb random people who have harris/walz stickers? Never try to radicalize anyone ever again if they voted Democrat? Beat people up for believing what their media told them about lesser evilism/Dems being the least bad option? Just give up? Or continue agitating and highlighting these contradictions, and in ways that aren’t unhinged and anti-social such that it’d even make other communists in real life organizing uncomfortable and doubtful of your political effectiveness if some of these comments were said toward random liberals of which you were probably one just a few years ago.

Many of the people who are duped into it aren’t even happy about what the Democrats do and even hate the Democrats and are ripe for agitation and education to continue in effectiveness. They’re just believing the narratives of the corporate owned media machine and status-quo-hegemonizing content algorithms about “lesser evilism.” Which is the point of attack to convince people otherwise, which you will never do with this “never forgive them throw them in the nazi pit US is doomed and nobody will ever change their political opinion” in these kinds of threads. They need to be taught and shown to realize they need to challenge the actual structures instead of just facilitating things becoming this way through being manipulated into “politics is avoiding maximal perceived harm with votes for who the media says is less evil” And if the Dems do lose, then you will see an upswell of politically active liberals too as happened with the first Trump win, which also will need education and onboarding and splitting away from opportunist or petty-bourgeois trends; by active communists who aren’t spitting on and threatening them because they might have voted for Democrats and making communists look (and be) terrible.

Like “not forgive them” what does that even mean? This is a counter-productive and insular anti-social focus getting this mad at random voters buying into the HEGEMONIC LIBERAL NARRATIVES EVERYONE IS DROWNING IN ALL THE TIME FROM BIRTH, EVEN US, AND ARE EVEN UNCONSCIOUSLY ALGORITHMICALLY FUNNELED INTO REINFORCING, rather than broadening your focus to actually undermine and change it — understanding that and picking your battles to be most effective in organizing mass politics to the ends of socialism and anti-imperialism by fomenting splits along critical lines to wedge misled people out of hollow faith in the duopoly which we’ve seen happening and happening more and more for the past 8 years and will continue to — but by the actions of those with more sense and perspective than the people in this thread and threads like it—imagine Claudia De La Cruz saying some of the wild and vile shit in these threads while she’s campaigning lmao; would never happen because she has perspective and political acumen from study and experience and is trying to build socialism rather than abuse and spite liberals for no purpose other than to pettily see them suffer for shit a lot of them straight up don’t even understand fully. Work all of this into the wider structural critiques highlighting and exposing the contradictions in the Democratic party’s stated goals and what the media says about their goals and purposes vs what they actually do, stand for, who finances them and who they work for, etc. with actual class analysis and materialist conception of the mass movements of society as they are in current reality; and continue organizing for and agitating along those contradictions to foment splits and defections further in the Democrat party into 3rd parties, without making the 3rd parties seem positively unhinged like some of these comments would do by association.

Add it as another essential and undeniable point to beat the drum against Democrat dead-endism and that not only is “lesser evil” counter-productive in that it makes society gradually more tolerant and compliant with increasing evil over time — but that has been the way of things for so long now the Democrats are effectively already equal evil; while uplifting the alternatives to give people, including those masses already holding their nose the past multiple elections and eager for an off-ramp, an actual platform they see to jump off onto. Join the PSL, agitate and educate among your friends and family and community for PSL (or Greens if you want). Draw independent coalition with these left 3rd parties where the interests align (Greens want to break the duopoly as much as the communists; or if they don’t, force them to show themselves opportunists afraid of power and so move their bases to the communists); and further drive the points that the Democrats must be starved of their margins in order to disrupt the duopoly because the duopoly framework benefits the Democrats by keeping a “more (openly) evil” opponent to fear-monger while not offering anything different and ratcheting everything to the right.