Personally, Gaza and his anti-railway workers union action was enough to destroy any credibility he had so far.

  • VILenin [he/him]@hexbear.netMEnglish
    171·
    5 months ago

    Taking out the trash, any genocide apologists come here to collect your ban-hammer

    Same goes for any defense of the genocidal US settler-colonial “republic” and its fascist representatives

    • SeventyTwoTrillion [he/him]@hexbear.netEnglish
      29·
      5 months ago

      it’s always very funny seeing their lists and comparing it to real life and realizing that, huh, things didn’t actually improve in that area despite Biden authorizing a 50% increase in peepee over an 18 month period to everybody with poopoo. actually if anything things seem to have gotten worse there.

      don’t believe the evidence of your senses, trust in The Lists

    • NapoleonBlownApart [he/him]@hexbear.netEnglish
      24·
      5 months ago

      Most are cynical diversity hires that use POC/lgbtqia as political pawns, the rest are things he supposedly “tried to do”. He doesn’t even have to follow through. Just saying (or [unintelligible]ing them) is counted as a win. Couldn’t even get rid of the trumpies in government.

      The fact that so many people fall for the gish gallop of nothingness is why we will never get out of 2015.

      • MayoPete [he/him, comrade/them]@hexbear.netEnglish
        11·
        5 months ago

        Also when does any of the gosh gallop of “accomplishments” affect me? My groceries cost more, fast food is $10 for most meals now or more. Gas is expensive. It’s harder than ever finding jobs that aren’t gig work. So many businesses around me are closing…

        I have a friend making $11/hour at Subway right now. What has Biden done for him?

        • NapoleonBlownApart [he/him]@hexbear.netEnglish
          10·
          5 months ago

          Libs will just yell at you about how it’s the best economy ever and you’re probably just doing life wrong or something.

          There are a few criticisms of Dems from the right that I agree with. #1 being that they are all elitists and smug.

  • Diuretic_Materialism [he/him]@hexbear.netEnglish
    29·
    5 months ago

    Eh, policy wonks have a decent sized list of things he’s passed/tried to pass, that will apparently be improving society somewhat in the next few decades provided that the Dems stay in during that entire time.

    • PeeOnYou [he/him]@lemmygrad.mlEnglish
      9·
      5 months ago

      and actually follow thru with any of it and don’t scrap it later because “Republicans would be even worse therefore it’s still good”

    • FlakesBongler [they/them]@hexbear.netEnglish
      622·
      5 months ago

      And?

      Are you actually learning something from any of this?

      Or are you one of those people who will sit around, vote for the lesser evil and then go shocked-pikachu when the lesser evil continues to be evil?

        • booty [he/him]@hexbear.netEnglish
          62·
          5 months ago

          The solution is to recognize that this electoral system is a complete failure and acknowledge that it must be completely done away with in favor of something that works

              • jaspersgroove@lemm.eeEnglish
                47·
                5 months ago

                What a meaningless reply lol

                If you tell someone that what they’re doing is pointless, you ought to be prepared to suggest a better course of action.

                • ashinadash [she/her]@hexbear.netEnglish
                  41·
                  5 months ago

                  What a meaningless reply lol

                  I like how you act as if no action can be valid other than vote, I mean you got told here and just acted like a fool whilst acting smug.

            • Black_Mald_Futures [any]@hexbear.netEnglish
              441·
              5 months ago

              So what are you actually going to DO?

              I’m going to do nothing, which is the same thing you’re doing, except i’m not jerking myself into a frenzied orgasm over how good it is i VOTED for the LESSER EVIL frothingfash

              If there weren’t so many blue maga morons like you who literally will support the DNC no matter what the democrats might have to actually, idk, change what they’re doing, but you’re too much of a fucking brainlet child to understand that your vote legitimizes their politics and actions

              I literally don’t understand how you can go through more than a single cycle of “vote for the lesser evil or things will get worse” where things get worse anyway without picking up some kind of fucking clue about this

            • Egon [they/them]@hexbear.netEnglish
              31·
              5 months ago

              what are you actually going to do?

              fedposting Incriminate yourself for meeeeeee

              Also since we both agree your vote is pointless, you aren’t doing anything either, so presenting this as if you’re coming from a position of action is both ridiculous and hilarious.

              Anyway I definitely haven’t done any sabotage. I also haven’t redistributed food to the houseless nor have I helped unionize a workplace or other stuff. I most certainly haven’t organised with other leftists and done local stuff, most certainly not.

            • booty [he/him]@hexbear.netEnglish
              181·
              5 months ago

              Sure, but if you truly understood it you would realize that voting for Biden is exactly as useful as sitting right where you are.

              • BmeBenji@lemm.eeEnglish
                12·
                5 months ago

                So to truly understand that this electoral system is a complete failure is to do nothing? Or is there an alternative I can do that you haven’t mentioned yet? I have seen a lot of people argue against voting like this “because it’s worthless” or “because it supports genocide” while I have yet to see anyone propose something to do that is more actionable or directly effective than voting.

                • Yllych [any]@hexbear.netEnglish
                  18·
                  5 months ago

                  Better than voting would be to join a communist party and work towards dual power, especially in your workplaces/unions

        • FlakesBongler [they/them]@hexbear.netEnglish
          46·
          5 months ago

          Here’s my plan, and I’ll even tell you without being a smuglord

          Abandon electoralism as the primary method of achieving anything, its become blatantly obvious to anyone paying attention that things will not improve under our current system and wasting time trying to get people elected will not help anyone

          Next is to establish a network of interconnected mutal aid groups, to provide to the people all that they need and deserve. The government has shown it doesn’t care about maintaining any actual infrastructure or protecting the vulnerable which leads to my third point

          We need a vanguard, both to protect the people who need it and to punish those who would oppose our work. They would be armed and trained and held to a higher standard than our enemies

          With the support network and vanguard in place, we can spread our message and gather support up, it won’t be easy but it will be better than sitting on our hands and having a heart attack every four years for the rest of our lives

        • AntiOutsideAktion [he/him]@hexbear.netEnglish
          33·
          5 months ago

          The thing to learn is that there’s no hope to be found in the ‘democratic’ system that’s in place. It’s going to get worse, not because we didn’t vote for the genocidal fascist with the exact same policies as the other uncouth genocidal fascist, but because of more fundamental forces are going to continue to play out either way. It’s about getting past that step in ‘what should I do’ to the next one.

          You can struggle with yourself over the premise but once you acknowledge it’s true, you have to pick yourself up and move on to planning for the future we’re stuck with and how to connect that end with the future we all deserve.

            • SacredExcrement [any, comrade/them]@hexbear.netEnglish
              32·
              5 months ago

              Help my community as best I can by volunteering and hopefully organizing, vote on select local issues, and donating to try and negate the damage your guy 99% Hitler does

              What’re you gonna do besides whine at leftists and vote blue on everything?

              There are literal books filled with thoughts on how to approach electoral participation that you could read if you earnestly cared. Parenti covers it, Marx covers it in Kapital, Lenin covers it in State and Revolution, and that’s just the basics

              • jaspersgroove@lemm.eeEnglish
                46·
                5 months ago

                Ahh so you’re going to do all the same shit that millions of the “vote blue” people you so casually dismiss are already doing, while also making it easier for trump to get into office and make things worse, faster.

                About the answer I expected lol

                • ZoomeristLeninist [comrade/them, she/her]@hexbear.netMEnglish
                  29·
                  5 months ago

                  “vote blue” ppl are probably not volunteering and organizing in anything meaningful. campaigning for a fascist corpse so he can defeat the more lively fascist is not meaningful.

                  democrats are identical to republicans on immigration, healthcare, wage stagnation, and tax breaks for the wealthy. and their inaction on abortion, the dismantling of LGBT rights, and climate change make them effectively no different from republicans on this. so what makes them better?

                  im not voting for someone who entered politics as a segregationist and hasnt demonstrated meaningful change in that position. someone who is “personally opposed” to abortion. someone who allowed the right to take away our rights while he was the head of state/government

                  if we vote for biden it sends the message that we are okay with what is happening, what he is allowing to happen. even if biden said he would fight for Medicare for all and a $15 min wage, why should i believe him? what has he kept his promise on? i can name one promise he kept: nothing will fundamentally change. except that was only a half-truth bc it actually got worse

                • SacredExcrement [any, comrade/them]@hexbear.netEnglish
                  28·
                  5 months ago

                  I forgot how voting against an anti abortion amendment in my state is the same as voting for genocide Joe. smuglord

                  If you’d actually read any theory, you’d have noticed the nuance present regarding electoralism.

                  So smug, wrong, and unwilling to change or read more than two sentences; you came to reinforce your own views and will leave none the wiser.

                • BobDole [none/use name]@hexbear.netEnglish
                  25·
                  5 months ago

                  So, what do you do? You go to work and do your job and don’t make waves like a good serf, vote for m’lord every 2-4 years, donate to an NGO run by some billionaire’s failchild making $250k a year as they spend 90% of donations on admin? Sneer at homeless people, why can’t they just get a job and pay rent like everybody else? Volunteer once a year, probably between Thanksgiving and Christmas, and say “well I’ve done my part for this disgusting poors!”

                  And then you and your family die in a wet bulb event because the power grid couldn’t handle it. Or you catch the next pandemic virus and are unable to work, so you end up panhandling on the street, and the cops who you support and who your guy gave a ton of money and military equipment to beat the shit out of you for fun, leaving you to die, alone in an alley.

                  Anyway, keep doing what you’re doing! The billionaires will surely solve this!

                • Egon [they/them]@hexbear.netEnglish
                  21·
                  5 months ago

                  I don’t know any “vote blue” people who do this kind of stuff. If they do anything it’s show up for one large protest, co-opt it, and then shame people for fighting back against the inevitable police violence.

              • Egon [they/them]@hexbear.netEnglish
                7·
                5 months ago

                Hey now, they’ll also vote for the midterms. Maybe even knock some doors for Joe, you know really entrench him as the only viable option. That’s like 4 full days at least

            • Egon [they/them]@hexbear.netEnglish
              26·
              5 months ago

              Seems we’re at an impasse of “yu-huh” and “nu-uh”, so I’ll give some leeway.
              Sorry you’re right! Voting can change things for the worse.
              Anyway this is from 1972
              Voting for “the lesser evil” has now brought us to a place where there isn’t one. It has never worked.
              We didn’t win any of the labour rights we have by voting. We didn’t abolish slavery by voting. We didn’t get civil rights by voting. We didnt even get the right to vote by voting!

        • DerRedMax [comrade/them, any]@hexbear.netEnglish
          43·
          5 months ago

          You can tell yourself that you’re voting left but the Overton Window still shifts right. Look at immigration. Look at the courts. Roe. It’s taking a hard right with the “left” candidate already in office.

          If it’s going to go right either way, then focus your efforts on something else.

          The change that I make might not “do anything”, but I am not going to just punch in Team Blue and then sit back and blame things on other people not voting the way you think they should have voted. That’s not doing anything at all.

    • casskaydee [she/her]@hexbear.netEnglish
      40·
      5 months ago

      Biden has personally done more to shift the window to the right than any other living person, the only other figure from the 20th century who even comes close was Reagan and Biden is to Reagan’s right on a lot of things

    • robinnn [he/him]@hexbear.netEnglish
      32·
      5 months ago

      Heh, it’s just a simple calculus for me. I vote for the liberals to stop the conservatives and move the overton window left, the liberals prop up the farthest-right conservatives in the next election and keep everything in limbo so of course I have to vote for the liberals again as their politics get worse, then we’ll see what happens but I got a good feeling; really it’s just me doing my part. A “thank you“ would be nice, but I’m not in it for the glory.

    • Egon [they/them]@hexbear.netEnglish
      331·
      5 months ago

      Strategic voting doesn’t work though. A representative democracy only functions if you vote for someone you believe represents you, not if you vote for whoever least doesn’t. If you do that, you get the choice between genocide and “genocide >:)”
      This text is from 1972 and the arguments for strategic voting are the then as it was now. Even back then these arguments were seen as very obviously flawed.

      “One more election bro, I swear just one more. One more and then you can vote for a leftist, I promise! We just have to beat [villain of the week]” This was trotted out for Trump, Romney (binders full of women crazy Mormon), Cheney (old man crazy racist), Bush (dubya), Dole (I don’t even know how they managed it with this dud of a dude), Bush (senior), Reagan and then some. If strategic voting worked, we’d have seen the results a long time ago.

      Your calculus is simple, and you still get it wrong. You don’t push the democrats left by voting for them unconditionally, that just pushes republicans further right (and then the Dems follow, because they’re right wing and have no votes to lose as long as rubes like you do this shit). You push them left by voting for a leftist party. “Ohhh then my vote is wasted!” If you don’t think your vote is wasted on a genocidal dementia patient, then your brain has been replaced by a portobello. Also, to paraphrase one of your ilk from last election, they’re electable if you fucking vote for them

    • CyborgMarx [any, any]@hexbear.netEnglish
      391·
      5 months ago

      Morherfucker Biden has Trump beat on deportation numbers, record police funding, RICO prosecutions of leftist activists, oil and carbon expansion, number of wars started and oh yeah GENOCIDE

      In what universe is that not the definition of accelerationism, the one saving grace of Trump is the ease and magnitude at which resistence to his policies and general admin style manifest both domestically and internationally, to the point he couldn’t even build a show wall on the border

      The same is not true for dem presidencies, precisely because of fuckers like you who after blue inaugurations put on the blinders and start cheerleading for dems who keep and even expand republican policies

      You blue nazis normalized genocide and are now demanding people who are actual human beings to tacitly endorse said genocide by voting for a rotting zionist lich who’s DEFINITELY gonna lose???

      Seriously lemmy take your dipshit “assumptions” and fuck all the way off

        • CyborgMarx [any, any]@hexbear.netEnglish
          23·
          5 months ago

          It’s not the action, but the goal. The actions you describe are indefensible, but the goal of those actions is not societal destabilization.

          Wtf is this gibberish? The ACTIONS are the causal factors leading to “societal destabilization”, are you saying the genocide and taking on board Trump’s immigration policy is fine in the long run because the intentions or “goals” are good? Wtf are you talking about you disgusting little shit?

          I don’t like for anyone to know who I am, but my face and my name is on my city’s YouTube channel dressing down my entire city council for inaction over a ceasefire resolution - which they then fucking passed. A Palestine flag has been flying outside my house for months. Go read my comment history. Between the hilarious stories of personal tragedy, you’ll find an unwavering position.

          You’re a piss poor liar and a fraud, a fake-ass reddit clown, all that nonsense chest-thumping is rendered meaningless the minute you accept the conditions of the DNC, if the beginning of any statement implies or begins with “Yes Joe Biden committed genocide…BUT” then that explicitly defines genocide as conditional and open to negotiation, the absolute definition of a wavering position

          Not only have you DONE NOTHING, but you’ve explicitly endorsed genocide, YOU helped normalize it and no amount of post facto bargaining is gonna wash the blood off your hands fool

          You have no credibility with your generalizations

          lmao you dumb fuck that’s the best you got? “Boo hoo”??? you’re crying about how we need to normalize genocide while sitting there pretending like Joe Brandon has any chance of victory after June 27th and you want to talk about credibility? You’re so blinded and twisted up by political resentment you don’t even realize your political cohort is in the middle of a civil war to oust the rotten lich you elevated as a figure of praxis activism

          Wake the fuck up, stop trying to “own the tankies” for five seconds and go watch some mainstream coverage, maybe then the gears in your capitulationist skull will finally figure out you’ve just been a rube for a political class who doesn’t give a fuck about your morally compromised ass

            • CyborgMarx [any, any]@hexbear.netEnglish
              10·
              5 months ago

              I believe it will be a piecemeal disassembly of everything that isn’t whatever their cultural ideal is. Slow, systemic, and not at a pace where any one group can incense the rest into fighting for them.

              It’s genuinely incredible that you can’t recognize you’re talking about yourself here, YOU are part of a political cohort that is attempting to normalize and justify genocide in the name of fuckin harm reduction, willfully ignorant of the fact the Biden admin has played an accelerationist role in US and international politics; record deportations, record police funding, RICO prosecutions of leftist activists, oil and carbon expansion, wars, genocide. These aren’t abstract concepts, these are objective facts and there is no way to triangulate around them, because the perpetrators don’t even care enough to try, they instead rely on capitulationists like you to cheerlead and sanitize horrors we can all see plain as day

              Today it’s Palestine, tomorrow who’s it gonna be, hmm? What’s groups are eligible in your vaunted view for sacrificial duty to preserve this “flawed (mostly pretend) democracy”, how many groups need to be put on the chopping block before your self-centered weepy ass realizes you’re already goose-stepping with the fascists, how many times are you gonna die coward?

              You know what really disgusts me about you scumbags, it’s the utter lack of courage or even rudimentary conviction, you people make a virtue of moral cowardice, forsaking solidarity in the name of illusionary political advantage, proudly proclaiming your willingness to push others in front of danger while hilariously labeling yourselves “realists” despite the fact the elites you worship laugh in your faces (Biden: “As long as I know I did my best, I’m happy”)

              You’re a worthless lotus eater with no beliefs or politics, piss off PIGPOOPBALLS

        • Egon [they/them]@hexbear.netEnglish
          17·
          5 months ago

          In what universe is that not the definition of accelerationism.

          This one.

          So you don’t have an answer then? Neat. Go watch the west wing for 7th time.

          Its not the action, but the goal. The actions you describe are indefensible, but the goal of those actions is not societal destabilization.

          The purpose of a system is what it does. I don’t give a shit about the idealistic ends some demented war criminal thinks will come about, I care about the actual results of their actions which is destabilisation.

          Not gonna engage with the rest of your text where you show your hand as a condescending smuglord. Its clear you have no capability to engage with others except to condescend from an imagined position of ideological superiority placed upon a corpse throne of all the people Biden are murdering (you’re safe tho, so it’s fine!)
          Cum

            • CyborgMarx [any, any]@hexbear.netEnglish
              13·
              5 months ago

              A capitalist trying to grow capitalism is just greed unless they’re trying to grow capitalism to destabilize society.

              lmao you honestly thought that was a profound statement didn’t you?

              Embracing rapid technological growth for the sake of improving society is contrary to destabilizing society.

              Is that what you think Biden is going? Is that what you believe the Democratic Party is all about? Are you gonna start preaching about blockchain next?

              Infrastructure sabotage for literally any other reason than societal destabilization - and even if the goal is societal destabilization, if it’s done as part of state actions during wartime or for the sake of committing genocide - then it is not accelerationism.

              jesse-wtf Is English your second language, again wtf is this gibberish? “Infrastructure sabotage”? “Action without accelerationism”??? It’s hilarious the extent to which you’re twisting yourself into a incoherent pretzel just for the sake of triangulating a vague-ass defense of genocide

              Propping up a demented, rotting, genocidal lich king with worse policies than Trump is by your own tortured metrics and the fake metrics of most libs an accelerationist position, but you’re still living in the pre-June 27th lib-world where Biden didn’t lose all hope of beating Trump, and now you’re coping because without the whole “Only Biden can beat Trump” narrative, you dipshits have nothing to fall back on except drawing attention to Biden’s genocide or his Trumpian record

              It’s honestly been fascinating watching you contort yourself using increasingly bizarre definitions of accelerationism and completely butchering the concept of cause and effect, lmao stay coping shitlib biaoqing-copium

    • Cowbee [he/him, they/them]@hexbear.netEnglish
      26·
      5 months ago

      I’m so fucking sick of people pretending that the best way to deal with our damaged and failing democracy is to not oppose the ones accelerating the failure.

      When both major candidates are accelerating the failure, a solution outside of the major candidates is necessary. Voting for the lesser of two evils is still voting for an evil. You can absolutely believe that harm reduction is a good thing, but to act as though it is sufficient to vote for a less evil candidate and not organize on the ground outside the electoral system is naiive.

      My assumptions about people who embrace this ideology is that they think being straight white men will spare them and their loved ones when Christian fascists look to enforce their religious ethnostate. Maybe that will work, but what about when they cut all the rest of the social programs, wipe out worker protections/decrease wages to sustainable level, and destroy the environment for the sake of their corporate overlords?

      Are these assumptions grounded in statistical analysis, or did you imagine a situation that fits with your world view and believe it as though it were real? There are many trans and POC comrades who disagree with you here.

      Secondly, Social Programs are being cut, worker protections are weakening, wages are stagnating, and the environment is being destroyed. Trump may be worse on these, but again, simply voting for a slower rate is not sufficient.

      Or they believe the people, after decades of stagnating wages, faltering education, and concerted efforts to divide us socially will all unite with our kitchen cutlery to overthrow a nation backed by the largest fucking military on the planet - and that if those efforts are successful, that the resulting political reorganization won’t just be co-opted by the cooperations that control the media and have already written a new fucking constitution.

      You should read The State and Revolution. This is not the strategy or analysis Marxists have, you are again concocting an imagined scenario to fit your world view.

      Whether they play or not, they’re in the game. But the approach they’ve taken just helps the folks who want to make things worse for them. We are super, super fucked.
      Pretending that not participating is the morally correct play is denial backed by propaganda.

      Again, stating that Voting is perhaps the least effective way to oppose fascism does not mean you should not vote, nor does it mean you should not work outside the electoral system. Rather, it’s the opposite! Someone who votes alone is far less effective than someone who actively contributes to organizational efforts and unionizing, but skips voting. Doing both is even better!

        • Cowbee [he/him, they/them]@hexbear.netEnglish
          8·
          5 months ago

          I agree with you.
          I don’t only vote in every single election and argue with strangers online. I go to city council meetings. I email and call elected officials to argue policy. I design, print, and uh… distribute stickers with political messages around town. I’m directly involved with government transparency efforts, and I’m about to start prying at my local RCV group to figure out why they haven’t attempted to field a ballot initiative

          This is all still well within the bounds of electoralism. Certainly more than most people can say, but it doesn’t truly get at the heart of what historically drives major change, ie organizing and directly contesting.

          And, yes, my assumptions are purely assumptions, but they’re rational, I think - the majority of opinions here (or perhaps loudest voices) argue for not voting, and I cannot connect that sentiment to one that trans folks and/or POC would embrace, since that strategy helps the people who want to harm them. But your arguments - which I understand to be that folks should take action, openly acknowledge the failure of the current system, and still vote - would benefit trans/POC folk, and that does invalidate my demographic assumptions.

          People here are largely not suggesting simply that change happens by sitting on your thumbs and not voting. People here are arguing that voting, and electoralism in general, is a lost cause for enacting positive change. You should spend a bit of time on Hexbear and see the demographics, the trans space here is one of the largest on Lemmy and one of the most active. I believe the last informal survey found around 40-50% of Hexbear is trans.

          I have to be honest. I don’t think I’ll read The State and Revolution. I am interested in your viewpoint, but 100+ pages on a sort of weirdly organized website aren’t really something I think I’m capable of sticking through.
          Is it a correct assumption, though, that your intent was to express that the revolution/change would occur through gradual and peaceful social change rather than violent revolution?

          No, it’s not a correct assumption. Gradualism has never worked in the favor of the Working Class, historically. State and Revolution does not mean individual acts of terrorism are the way to go, either. The point of the text is that reform cannot work in a bourgeois democracy because the class in power will not relinquish power willingly. See what happened to Allende in Chile. Instead, revolution is more of an inevitability, so it’s up to leftists to prepare and organize so that the revolution can be properly steered. Occupy Wall Street is an example of a movement with no solid base. Same with Chaz.

          I really do suggest reading Leftist theory, you can download State and Revolution and read it on an EReader if you like.

    • Egon [they/them]@hexbear.netEnglish
      261·
      5 months ago

      downbear
      Pretending like not voting means you’re not doing anything is a logical fallacy. People aren’t arguing for nothing, they’re arguing that voting, at best, does nothing.

      “You have to participate” sure, but only in a very specific way. You can’t vote for anyone other than these two candidates or your vote is “wasted” never mind the fact that both are creating the fascist hellscape you’re fearmongering about. The idea that voting for Biden does anything than further entrench a broken system is beyond flawed, it’s downright ridiculous! The “lesser evil” argument has been made since 1972 and all it has brought us is the devolution of so many civil rights political activists have fought for. We’re now at a point where the lesser evil is a more competent genocide.

      Furthermore it’s ironic to try to use identity politics to argue for Biden, when it is only straight white men who might be able to consider themselves safe under his regime.

      Voting for either of those two goons does nothing but legitimise their rule and confirm them in the fact that their people don’t care about genocide or deteriorating conditions as long as it’s their team in power.

      If democracy was truly at stake, if the republicans were truly as dangerous (and treasonous) as you suggest, then Joe Biden should use his newly created presidential superpowers to have them all killed or at the very least imprisoned. The fact that he doesn’t, the fact that he does absolutely nothing to stop the people you’re scaremongering about (besides beg for your vote) means that he either doesn’t give a shit or that he knows it’s not as dire as people in his camp make it out to be.

      Voting for Biden encourages genocide. Voting for a third party encourages opposition, not voting means you haven’t wasted an afternoon. Striking or sabotaging stops arms shipments going to Israel, as has already happened many times. We are however not in a discussion of what constitutes effective direct action, we’re in a discussion of why voting for Biden isn’t good.

        • Egon [they/them]@hexbear.netEnglish
          29·
          5 months ago

          You have me on several points.

          You say this and then you go on to repeat the same arguments and ignore the “several points” I’ve made. Your attempt at rhetorics is poorly done.

          The logic behind not voting is the same as the idiots who vote third party every presidential election, and then skip all the local elections. This is not the one you throw your vote away on.

          You are repeating yourself and not addressing the arguments put forth about lesser-evilism.
          Also the vote isn’t wasted, you just need to vote for them too. Tell your friends to vote for PSL and we might be able to beat Trump! (Since you’re denser than a brick golem in a tungsten mine: I’m being facetious)

          And I’m not invoking identity politics.

          You’re trying to use queer people and POC as a cudgel to hide behind, despite the fact that the only people who can consider themselves safe in Bidens America are straight white conservative men. You are invoking identity politics.

          I’ m literally saying what the right has said they want to do, and saying that even if you don’t think you’ll be impacted, you’re wrong.

          I am already impacted by Bidens America.

          Your statement about Biden needs support.

          Which one? I make a lot of statements.

          And Democracy is at stake. Biden is a doddering old fool and the Democratic Party are a bunch of shills captive to their corporate donors.

          I don’t disagree that whatever semblance of democracy the US has left is at stake. I just believe both candidates will destroy it.

          But I’m still not going to be a party to facilitating the greater evil! What kind of stupidity is that?

          They’re equally evil, which is the point several people have been trying to hammer into your dense skull. Biden has expanded several of Trumps policies, done nothing to roll back the harmful ones, ignored all the bs that isn’t being actively perpetrated by himself, attempted to provoke a war with China, perpetrated a genocide in Palestine, crushed strikes, done fuck all about the climate, given more money to cops, done fuck all to stop or reverse the overturning of Roe v Wade - which was the main argument we should vote for him last time - and that’s just the tip of the iceberg.
          Sure democracy is at stake or whatever, but Biden won’t save it and according to himself, its not that dire: “I’ll feel as long as I gave it my all and I did the good job as I know I can do; that’s what this is about.”
          Again you fail to engage with the argument you’ve been presented. You are actively facilitating the greater evil by perpetuating this “lesser evilism”. You are now legitimising genocide. Of course we shouldn’t care because you’re not the one at risk right now 👍

          How powerful do you think you will be when the power to make ‘the rules’ is handed over to folks without any scruples?

          Considering the fact that I already think they’ve been handed over to folks like that? Indifferent. At least people like you gave a shit when Trump had cops beat the shit out of protesters, or took away women’s bodily autonomy, or did harmful stuff to the climate, or put migrants in cages, or did needless foreign aggression.
          It sounds like Joe Biden should really do something about this Trump guy. Wild its only now trump is jumping in to the picture, wish we’d had several years to deal with him. Oh well.

          Sigh.

          Gasp. Wheeze. Kerplunk.

          It doesn’t matter anyway. The ruling that granted that power has been kicked to a lower court for additional rulings. After that it bounces to the Supreme Court in October, and they will wait until after the election to issue their opinion.

          Wow, did the parliamentarian do this? Or was it Manchin or Sinema this time? Oh bother this poor Biden just can’t catch a break, he’s just a smol bean, completely powerless! Of course he needs to be in power or big scary meanie trump will get in, and then he will use the presidential powers (that Biden can’t) to become dictator! Poor Biden can’t do anything! Especially not about the supreme court! What is he going to do? There’s literally no precedent for presidents dealing with a supreme court they disagree with!

          and people here will mock people like me, and say “Well, they were just freaking out for no reason, democracy prevailed!” Which is great and funny for you all until it fucking doesn’t.

          Democracy is dead already buddy, we’ve been trying to tell you for a while. And we won’t tell you that, we’ll just send you a picture of a pig with shit on its testicles.

          like this

          whywhywhywhywhy

          And also - vote absentee if you can. Don’t ‘waste’ your afternoon. And if you live in some bumfuck backwater that discourages voter participation, then you have extra reason to fucking vote.

          Only if I vote for your guy though! Or it’s wasted! Just this once though! Just this once, don’t be stupid and waste your vote on someone who represents you, waste it on Joe Biden so libs like you can live without fear while the rest of us get beat to shit.
          Also only do it if you live in a swing state! Otherwise it’s pointless!

          You did a shit job at engaging with any argument I presented, you just repeated yourself. Cum and also blocked