Dell has got to be one of the most frustrating companies that put out a linux laptop. They put out a laptop certified for ubuntu but then never support newer releases. A big part of their hardware is always proprietary drivers like webcam, fingerprint reader etc… Then you update to a new LTS release because lets be serious 20.04 at this point is going to sunset in a couple of years… However after you update the webcam stops working, or some other hardware stops working. Then you are constantly troubleshooting to get it working and every kernel update it breaks again. If you ever did ask support they will just tell you to go back to 20.04 image from dell. Not to mention all their OS tools are made for windows even the ones for making linux recovery images… like WTF! I am two years in on this laptop and I am just getting rid of it I cannot put up with this nonsense anymore from them.
If you’re in the EU, I can heartily recommend Tuxedo computers. Specifically targeted towards Linux use.
i’m seriously considering the Pulse 14, since it’s around 800 eur cheaper than FrameWork Ryzen options, any good reviews out there?
Edit: also the customization looks promising, it seems Tuxedo has its own github page with drivers so you can hack your own keyboard layout, now I really want one!
shutupandtakemymoney.jpg
I’ve been wanting to get my claws on one, but it’s too expensive to get them to the US.
Better hardware manifacturers for Linux:
- Clevo (ODM, nearly exclusively from companies like below)
- Novacustom
- System76
- Kubuntu Focus
- Tuxedo
- Framework
- Slimbook
- Starlabs (only order what is in stock)
- Lenovo Thinkpad
If you go with Starlabs, make sure what you’re ordering is IN STOCK.
I ordered the Lite V which I as estimated to deliver in October 2023. It’s now April 2024 and they are just receiving it on their end. It seems like they’ve learned their lesson but not letting people pre-order their newer things now. Reviews of previous products seem promising with them.
My friend has the Slimbook Executive. That thing is sex with a keyboard.
Would not recommend System76. I’ve had many issues with my machine (primarily software, related to their buggy custom firmware, and Pop!_OS, until I ditched that for stock Ubuntu). Their support has been terrible - rather similar to OP’s, actually. I’ve had the laptop for about 2.5 years, and I’m checking practically daily for something to replace it.
I’ve had a Gazelle 16 for 2 years now, and while I agree they are not the end-all for Linux laptop hardware, I’m pretty happy with it. I’ve distrohopped on it quite a bit since I got it, but I mostly run Fedora Gnome on it (running 39 currently), and so fat, everything just works. I’m thinking of buying from a different provider when it’s time to change (maybe 2 to 4 more years). Can’t speak to their support since mine has just worked since day one and I’ve had no need to reach out to them. PopOS is pretty good, but it is lacking when compared to Fedora. Let’s see what happens when 24.04 comes out with the rust-based Cosmic DE.
Considering that you are not using their software, was the laptop worth the premium you paid for it, vs buying from Clevo directly?
I figured the hardware and software coming from the same vendor would yield the best results, and wanted to support a company that supports right-to-repair, and Linux in general. But ultimately I found Pop!_OS buggy and had performance issues, so I’m not using their OS, and their firmware is causing issues with my SSD, so I’d like to be off of it as well (but was told "there’s no process for reverting to the proprietary firmware“ for the specific model I have). I could have bought a Clevo directly, saving hundreds of dollars, and probably had a better working machine.
I purchased it with the intent to use PopOS, and did for the first 3 months, then started distro hopping. I’m a die hard fedora fan, so I just ended up keeping Fedora (I did go back a few times to Pop).
I can’t say Pop was ever an issue, it just worked, and my 10 years old daughter has it in her PC and she’s very happy with it. But even on Fedora, I feel this purchase was absolutely worth it. I got it with as little ram as possible (8GB) and with the smallest NVMe drive (256GB) and then bought 64GB of RAM and two 2TB NVMe drives. It all came at around 500 dollars in savings when compared with the highest build.
You wonder why I didn’t straight up got a Clevo? I’m ashamed to recognize that I never heard of it until a few months after I got my Gazelle. Then there’s the fact that they are somewhat hard to get in the US.
All in all, I want to love to another manufacturer on my next purchase, only because I think there are better options than system76, but not because I think they’re not good enough or anything.
+1 for Lenovo Thinkpad
- Clevo (ODM, nearly exclusively from companies like below)
I have a gen 6 X1 carbon. Have Pop on it, and it’s a dream. Got it new, half price from lenovo, as it was a couple years old and they were shifting stock. Best laptop I’ve had, and an exceptional Linux experience.
The problem is, that there are not many notebook producer, that are
- Supporting Linux
- Have reasonable prices and hardware
- (Are not from an authoritarian country that has shady spying practices and uses slave labour)
There is Dell, Acer, Framwork and that’s it, I guess?
Bought a Yoga Pro 7 7840HS 32GB 1TB. Everything works fine in Linux. Battery does 8-10h on full charge, good build quality, no issues with any parts. Running EndeavourOS after had some minor issues with Manjaro, WiFi connecting 1 minute after booting and some weird disconnects after a while. No such thing in EndeavourOS.
Running idle with minimum brightness, Bluetooth off, WiFi connected and keyboard backlight turned off consumes minimum 3.6W. Got it less than $900 around 4 months ago.
(Are not from an authoritarian country that has shady spying practices and uses slave labour)
So you’re not buying Frameworks, Acers, Hewlett-Packards, or Lenovos then? The NSA codified ‘shady spying practices’ via domestic spying on their own people, and we’ve been using prison slaves since the drafting of the 14th Amendment.
I put the last one in brackets, because it is debatable. But my hole point is, that there are not many producers out there to chose from.
Dell is an American company? As is Framwork, (I think?).
The US is the most authoritarian state in the world with over 20% of the world’s prison population in its slave labour camps.
Is it the XPS 13 (9370)? If so, apparently everything works fine in Arch, except the fingerprint sensor. So might be worth a shot giving it a try.
I wouldn’t be surprised if some of your issues are partly related to Ububtu. Personally, I wouldn’t recommend using it even if a device has official support for it.
I ended up on a first gen dell developer xps and didn’t win the Intel nic lottery. Dell’s Ubuntu repo bricked my laptop a dozen times til I moved to arch, which actually had the decency to include the broadcom driver.
The hardware is alright, but the total lack of effort in maintaining has been from the jump.
Well, mine runs fine with a clean install of Ubuntu 23.10, I did not encounter any of the issues OP mentions. (note: my model doesn’t have a fingerprint sensor)
I’m running Ubuntu on an XPS and everything worked OOTB (except for IR-cameras) - even the nvidia drivers. Ubuntu has really good hardware support, but I wouldn’t count on Dell being reliable on linux compatibility.
I had a Dell back in the day (like 20’ish years ago) and I had the same experience on the Windows install it came with. Sad to hear that they just switched the issues over to Linux from Windows. :(
Even on the Windows side of things they’re frustrating. Company took my perfectly working Thinkpad and replaced it last September with an “upgraded” Dell Inspiron laptop. It’s a piece of crap. Wakes up all the time in my bag, randomly drops wifi, and randomly drops ViewSonic monitors. Official IT solution: this happens sometimes, we don’t know why, and we’re going to send you Dell monitors instead.
*Edit I guess it’s actually a Precision, not Inspiron. I don’t buy Dells so I don’t know all the names!
Waking up in the bag is a known problem with Windows’ new sleep mode but the rest ¯\_( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)_/¯
Inspiron? Must be a small company. That’s consumer class, they’re made to be sold at Walmart. Latitudes are pretty good imo, I actually prefer them to thinkpads.
My error, I just checked and apparently it’s actually a Precision. I don’t deal in Dells so I don’t know all their nomenclature! It’s still been a downgrade though from my ThinkPad.
I don’t think you’re right on this. When DELL is branding a laptop as “linux supported”, then the hardware normally works out of the box with at the very least, Ubuntu (and probably by most other distros too). If you’re seeing hardware incompatibilities, it’s probably because the Linux kernel itself might have dropped some of the older hardware drivers from its list of support. I’m writing this on a DELL Latitude 5480 from 2017, and I have installed the latest ubuntu without any hardware issue whatsoever. Everything’s just supported out of the box. No special image from DELL was ever required. So if you’re seeing your hardware stop working, you should look if DELL provided closed source drivers or firmware for your laptop’s hardware. If that’s the case, then you didn’t have a “linux supported” laptop, you had a laptop with specifically-added Linux support after the fact. I wouldn’t have bought that in the first place.
I do want to make this point as well even though I know this thread is old. A lot of the issue comes down to very new hardware that isn’t in the mainline kernel yet but may be in the future. So the case of a 2017 laptop being fully supported is not that surprising. The question is if you could get a 2024 laptop from dell to run on mainline kernel with no extra drivers and the answer is likely mixed. The majority would likely work however things like webcam and the fingerprint reader would likely not work. You might still be able to get the drivers directly from dell and get it to work but it can be a hodgepodge and difficult to support. For instance the dell I had when I wrote this I could run on the latest Ubuntu however I had to download the debs for the webcam and fingerprint reader and screw around with the settings and config files to get them to work. Sometimes I would get an update that would break them and then I would need to mess around again to get them working. It’s linux so many things are “doable” however I wouldn’t say that it was user friendly or simple a lot of times. I am on system76 now and a whole lot happier to be honest.
You have this view because your hardware is from an era where fingerprint reader largely weren’t a thing and webcams were connected via internal usb. The issue is not that the Linux kernel drops anything (between you and op, you’re the one with the old hardware). The issue is, that fingerprint readers became a commodity without ever gaining universal driver support, and shengians like Intel pushing its stupid IPU6 webcam stuff without paving the way upstream beforehand
In that case, the solution is to buy hardware that is linux-certified.
So not Dell, apparently. OP has a valid point. Dell claims to support Linux but in practice doesn’t.
Specifically the shitty IPU6 situation is on Intel, and is invariant to any laptop manufacturers. I also have a Thinkpad X1 with that issue. So for that the situation that one manufacturer would support it properly (i.e. upstream) and others don’t can’t exist, as soon as anybody puts it upstream it works for everybody. Thankfully there’s some progress (search for libcamera) and in the not too distant future it should work ootb. For fingerprint readers it is a different story though, as there are many different ones, so that one is on Dell indeed
The issue is whether the thing is running a mainline compatible or distro kernel. If the device is running an orphan kernel, you’re screwed. This is the depreciation mechanism built into Android. It is “not Linux” because they are all orphans.
Technically even this is not enough if you want to get in the weeds. Technically the device can be on mainline but the company has a full time dev maintaining the required modules while the hardware itself it undocumented. If the hardware is documented at the api/registers level and it is already on mainline, it will likely remain supported for decades.
This is the true benchmark of ownership; public hardware documentation and fully merged support in the mainline kernel. Just for reference there is not a single mobile device that fully checks all of these boxes. Just to further illustrate how pervasive this is and how ignorant most of us are, the Raspberry π is proprietary with its full documentation locked under NDA. The vast majority of the silicon is made for a defunct TV tuner box, but you’ll never find documentation about any of this hardware at the registers level.
Your computer is the same, the microcode on ×86 is undocumented and things like the ALU architecture are not fully known except that it is a CISC wrapper around a RISC architecture. ARM is mostly proprietary at the registers level. All modems have been proprietary since the Atheros stuff over a decade back. The closest you can come to a FOSS computer are the old Duo series Intel chips supported by Libreboot and that is only because of the wonderful Leah Rowe’s hacking skills.
If you want to know what really works, go to https://linux-hardware.org and search. Either way, get the Hardware Probe from flathub or your package manager, run the test and review/upload your results to save the next person from similar issues. Seriously, don’t just ignore this. Upload your scan to the database with 233,034 other tested computers and 474,877 parts that have already been tested and uploaded. You can also see the configurations other people have used on the same hardware and get an idea if another kernel might work.
Hmmm. I didn’t know Dell had a Linux laptop. I bought a vostro with windows pre-installed and flashed fedora on it, expecting to get no WiFi webcam but everything worked out. It’s interesting that their windows machines run Linux better than their flagship Linux machine.
Exactly, never going to buy any Dell anymore… I’m so pissed with their XPS 13 issues.
Their XPS’ have gotten worse IMO. I have an XPS now running Linux Mint and it seems fine. Issue here or there.
I went to buy a new one but now they only come with 2 USB-C ports and that’s it! It’s not practical…
Fuck Dell with the rust backend of a sword.
I experienced the same shit with their dumb hardware. Honestly, I don’t know why they are Ubuntu Certified. It feels more like a cash grab from Canonical for non-linux vendors to be able to target corporate customers who only buy “linux certified” stuff. Then they pay off a few mainstream tech bloggers or tech “newspapers” to write a raving review about it and non-corporate people purchase it thinking they’re getting good linux hardware.
@[email protected] gave a good recommendation: tuxedo computers. They do linux hardware well - albeit it’s pricey.
And of course Linux Preloaded is a great page to find other vendors.
Anti Commercial AI thingy
backend of a sword
You mean the hilt?
Hilt is unspecific. Any weapon can have a hilt.
Anti Commercial AI thingy
Just gonna leave this here for anyone who wants a laugh. It wasn’t a Linux based desktop, but it was hilarious. Buying a PC with Dell: my journey into hell
Here is an alternative Piped link(s):
Buying a PC with Dell: my journey into hell
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I’m open-source; check me out at GitHub.
I bought a dell xps15 circa 2017 and it is god awful with Linux. I will never buy another dell ever again.
Not to mention they sell proprietary parts and couldn’t sell me a replacement ac adapter for my docking station. They wanted to force me to buy a new docking station instead of just purchasing an AC adapter… Horrible company and horrible compatibility.
Do not buy dell… They are like apple without the whole “good products” part.
Suggest a better choice, please. Lenovo?
If you want a PC laptop, my recommendation is that you either get a framework or buy one from a linux manufacturer (System76/Tuxedo/Slimbook)… Or if you need GPU horsepower on the go, just get whichever gaming laptop is on sale, they are all pretty much the same. If you’re on a budget, try your hand at 2nd hand. If you country doesn’t have a developed 2nd hand market, then you might consider getting a budget laptop, however those generally tend to suck and I’d recommend against it, unless you really just NEED a laptop.
Just don’t buy dell “flagship” products, they are just worse macbooks
