Try ordering at a french breakfast joint if you want to learn what true humiliation feels like. Having your French criticized by an unexpectedly persistent native speaker is unforgettable. I ordered coffee not crepes, you pretentious Italian-derivative median fish in the world’s tiniest pond. I see you snickering. Who orders a raspberry coffee? Guillaume, if you’re reading this, I hope you never eat a decent croissant again for the rest of your life.
There’s nothing worse in terms of pronunciation than English. French is silly for writing twice as much as what’s pronounced, but at least it mostly follows some rules.
The one at the bottom who is supposed to just fucking walk but keeps threatening the stability of the whole thing by randomly blurting out nonsense.
In the dimly lit boudoir, she sat at her ornate bureau, perusing an array of gourmet hors d’oeuvres, contemplating which avant-garde piece from her repertoire to perform at the soirée, her silhouette an epitome of haute couture elegance. Meanwhile, her fiancé, a connoisseur of fine arts and a critic of the bourgeoisie’s penchant for laissez-faire economics, prepared a detailed critique on the nuances of ballet and the je ne sais quoi of modern art installations, embodying the esprit de corps of their eclectic salon.
“The problem with defending the purity of the English language is that English is about as pure as a cribhouse whore. We don’t just borrow words; on occasion, English has pursued other languages down alleyways to beat them unconscious and rifle their pockets for new vocabulary.”
–James D. Nicoll
What’s so wild is that, as a native speaker, there are SO many rules and edge cases and exceptions…. And I know them by heart without ever being told them explicitly. First example that comes to mind is the whole order of adjectives…. We say big fluffy purple cat, never purple fluffy big cat.
Also, people love to break what little rules it adheres to and claim “eh, it’s already broken, so let me do this dumb thing a little further because Alicia said it was hella fetch.” And that’s why people can’t pluralize “email” properly and why everyone under 40 knows no adverb but “literally”.
I learnt English as my second (technically third) language. Other two languages I know are written and spoken exactly the same.
So take it from me, French pronunciation can be baffling or straight up ridiculous at times. English has got nothing on it. I don’t care if French aren’t heureux at this comment.
They are baffling and ridiculous but they are consistent in that. Once you learn one baffling and ridiculous rule, you can successfully apply that rule to correctly pronounce almost any new word you’ve never encountered before. Eaux is a stupid fucking way of writing “o” to be sure, but at least you will always immediately know how to pronounce it without ever having to guess, or hear it from someone else. Meanwhile in English you write “read” but you pronounce it “read”.
There are of course exceptions, but show me one language in the world that has none.
I am now very competent in Spanish and making no progress in French. Real speakers sound nothing like the classroom. It’s so frustrating. I feel like the French are all mumbling with Nutella in their mouths, but my tutor is clear as a bell.
I know you ioke but French (or a common root language) shaped so much of what the English language is today it wouldn’t surprise me if French influence is why we have that in English as well
I was at a Hard Rock Café in Paris (yes I know they’re overpriced, but the historic stuff on the walls is pretty cool), and I hobbled my way through a conversation in my very basic French, before adding a little self-deprecating “je suis désolée, mon Français est mauvais”, to which he replied “yes, it is a bit shit”.
I laughed, he laughed, my other half laughed, I paid over the odds for a pint, the French dude got a kick out of pointing out the flaws in my attempts, everyone went on their day.
I tried to learn some French as I was trecking through and ordered a beer
He immediately said, I should stay with German, if I can’t speak French, because I gendered the fucking beer wrong (neutral in German, female in French)
It’s frustrating. I kinda get it though - the French are proud of their language, and if they’ve got well-meaning travellers coming through and butchering it in new and inventive ways (particularly in high tourism areas) day in, day out… I can see how it would be grating.
I was in Starbucks on the outskirts of Paris, and ordered by drink in pigeon French, and the barista answered me in English. I answered her question in French, and she answered me in English. This went on for a couple more exchanges before we both laughed at how absurd it was - I asked “is my French really that bad?” and she just says “no your French is fine, but I can speak English better”. Fair enough.
I have heard though that outside of Paris though, people are far more appreciative of someone learning the language, to the point of being brutal with it. A friend was out in the North of the country, the locals loved that he was learning, but then let him absolutely sink when he reached a stage of a conversation where he was struggling. They could quite easily have bailed him out in English, but in fairness they made him think that little bit faster to make him learn.
Maybe it’s a difference in culture (US being a multicultural nation by definition), but I cannot relate to this at all. I would never dream of mocking a non-native speaker for attempting to order in English. I worked in retail and food service when I was younger, and dealt with foreigners constantly, and not once did I ever feel the need to berate them for getting a word wrong. Fuck all that.
Same here. Communication is difficult enough without willfully letting someone flounder. And English can get pretty broken but remain intelligible. If speak like Cookie Monster, still understand what say.
Nah, he seemed pretty pissed. I think it’s more like being fed up with German tourists as a waiter - meant not the general public, but this waiter personally. This was in the north eastern part of France. So Germany is quite close
I was at a place outside Paris, not too far, but in the Normandy countryside, in a tour group for French people because that’s what was running when we arrived and we didn’t want to wait an hour for the English version.
Me, with my three years of college-level French, was reasonably able to translate for my wife and ask simple questions. I held most of our questions until the end when everyone else had wandered off, so as to not bother anyone, and when we got the chance I started in with the more involved questions. This biscuit of a young woman listens to me stutter my question out with an utterly deadpan look on her face, and paused, then answered in English.
I was like, I’m trying here. At least acknowledge I’m trying to respect your culture.
Try ordering at a french breakfast joint if you want to learn what true humiliation feels like. Having your French criticized by an unexpectedly persistent native speaker is unforgettable. I ordered coffee not crepes, you pretentious Italian-derivative median fish in the world’s tiniest pond. I see you snickering. Who orders a raspberry coffee? Guillaume, if you’re reading this, I hope you never eat a decent croissant again for the rest of your life.
Your first mistake was to speak in a language which randomly decides to have some extra letters which it doesn’t pronounce.
Like english?
Yes, but much worse.
There’s nothing worse in terms of pronunciation than English. French is silly for writing twice as much as what’s pronounced, but at least it mostly follows some rules.
Doesn’t english just get that from being three languages in a trench coat?
One of which is French, yes.
The one at the bottom who is supposed to just fucking walk but keeps threatening the stability of the whole thing by randomly blurting out nonsense.
Statements dreamed by the utterly deranged.
They have played us for absolute fools.
“The problem with defending the purity of the English language is that English is about as pure as a cribhouse whore. We don’t just borrow words; on occasion, English has pursued other languages down alleyways to beat them unconscious and rifle their pockets for new vocabulary.” –James D. Nicoll
This reads like Pratchett. Love it
What’s so wild is that, as a native speaker, there are SO many rules and edge cases and exceptions…. And I know them by heart without ever being told them explicitly. First example that comes to mind is the whole order of adjectives…. We say big fluffy purple cat, never purple fluffy big cat.
I can’t imagine trying to teach that or explain it in a way that would be satisfactory to someone learning English.
“I don’t KNOW, its just how we do it!”
If you can’t have a satisfactory explanation then at least you could have an unsatisfactory one from Tom Scott, and that’s the next best thing, right?
I know… wild.
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Lol! “what’s a big-cat?”
There’s small cat medium cat and big cat. Any cat clothes shop will tell you the same.
Also, people love to break what little rules it adheres to and claim “eh, it’s already broken, so let me do this dumb thing a little further because Alicia said it was hella fetch.” And that’s why people can’t pluralize “email” properly and why everyone under 40 knows no adverb but “literally”.
I learnt English as my second (technically third) language. Other two languages I know are written and spoken exactly the same.
So take it from me, French pronunciation can be baffling or straight up ridiculous at times. English has got nothing on it. I don’t care if French aren’t heureux at this comment.
They are baffling and ridiculous but they are consistent in that. Once you learn one baffling and ridiculous rule, you can successfully apply that rule to correctly pronounce almost any new word you’ve never encountered before. Eaux is a stupid fucking way of writing “o” to be sure, but at least you will always immediately know how to pronounce it without ever having to guess, or hear it from someone else. Meanwhile in English you write “read” but you pronounce it “read”.
There are of course exceptions, but show me one language in the world that has none.
An example I like is that alchemy didn’t turn lead to gold, but it did lead to chemistry.
Well, I learned English as my second and French as my third language, and I see it the other way around. Agree to disagree I guess.
I am now very competent in Spanish and making no progress in French. Real speakers sound nothing like the classroom. It’s so frustrating. I feel like the French are all mumbling with Nutella in their mouths, but my tutor is clear as a bell.
Spanish is that much easier than French? Interesting.
As a multilingual fluent Spanish speaker. Yes, yes it is.
Easier to pronounce once you know the rules, at least.
French literally has rules with more exceptions than things that apply to the rule.
I think that’s also the case in English with “I before E, except after C.”
“Or when sounded as A, as in neighbor and weigh.”
“Weird.”
“Dammit!”
I hate that wiener (giggity) obeys the rule but is pronounced like it should be weiner. At least that word doesn’t come up (giggity) too often.
I am currently learning French and what gets me is how much of the French language is contextual for its meaning
Like English?
I know you ioke but French (or a common root language) shaped so much of what the English language is today it wouldn’t surprise me if French influence is why we have that in English as well
It’s both. The Romans and later Christianity brought Latin influences, then the Normans brought French influences.
Worsechester?
wustah
Exactly like English!
Ouaïeux
I was at a Hard Rock Café in Paris (yes I know they’re overpriced, but the historic stuff on the walls is pretty cool), and I hobbled my way through a conversation in my very basic French, before adding a little self-deprecating “je suis désolée, mon Français est mauvais”, to which he replied “yes, it is a bit shit”.
I laughed, he laughed, my other half laughed, I paid over the odds for a pint, the French dude got a kick out of pointing out the flaws in my attempts, everyone went on their day.
I tried to learn some French as I was trecking through and ordered a beer
He immediately said, I should stay with German, if I can’t speak French, because I gendered the fucking beer wrong (neutral in German, female in French)
It’s frustrating. I kinda get it though - the French are proud of their language, and if they’ve got well-meaning travellers coming through and butchering it in new and inventive ways (particularly in high tourism areas) day in, day out… I can see how it would be grating.
I was in Starbucks on the outskirts of Paris, and ordered by drink in pigeon French, and the barista answered me in English. I answered her question in French, and she answered me in English. This went on for a couple more exchanges before we both laughed at how absurd it was - I asked “is my French really that bad?” and she just says “no your French is fine, but I can speak English better”. Fair enough.
I have heard though that outside of Paris though, people are far more appreciative of someone learning the language, to the point of being brutal with it. A friend was out in the North of the country, the locals loved that he was learning, but then let him absolutely sink when he reached a stage of a conversation where he was struggling. They could quite easily have bailed him out in English, but in fairness they made him think that little bit faster to make him learn.
Maybe it’s a difference in culture (US being a multicultural nation by definition), but I cannot relate to this at all. I would never dream of mocking a non-native speaker for attempting to order in English. I worked in retail and food service when I was younger, and dealt with foreigners constantly, and not once did I ever feel the need to berate them for getting a word wrong. Fuck all that.
Same here. Communication is difficult enough without willfully letting someone flounder. And English can get pretty broken but remain intelligible. If speak like Cookie Monster, still understand what say.
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On the other hand, your German beers are much better than our French beers. Perhaps it was kind but clumsy advice?
Nah, he seemed pretty pissed. I think it’s more like being fed up with German tourists as a waiter - meant not the general public, but this waiter personally. This was in the north eastern part of France. So Germany is quite close
Pissed because you used the wrong “the”? Upholding the “French people are rude” stereotype!
As an aside, thank god English doesn’t use gendered “the”. It has enough problems as it is!
Ah yes Paris, the worst place of France
Lovely city, terrible people, as they say.
“Lovely” depend where
Or, as the quote I know better know: France is a lovely place; if only it weren’t full of the French.
I was at a place outside Paris, not too far, but in the Normandy countryside, in a tour group for French people because that’s what was running when we arrived and we didn’t want to wait an hour for the English version.
Me, with my three years of college-level French, was reasonably able to translate for my wife and ask simple questions. I held most of our questions until the end when everyone else had wandered off, so as to not bother anyone, and when we got the chance I started in with the more involved questions. This biscuit of a young woman listens to me stutter my question out with an utterly deadpan look on her face, and paused, then answered in English.
I was like, I’m trying here. At least acknowledge I’m trying to respect your culture.