From what I remember they are also anti immigration and anti-LGBT and are in a coalition with SNS which is I think a far right party.

They sound to me like socdem with reactionary politics on social issues.

Nah, he had a whole chapter dedicated to anti-veganism in his book Starry Messenger.

Here’s a video containing other examples of his ridiculous claims on the subject.

Neil: “Listen, listen” proceeds to describe what humans do to sentient beings literally fucking right now as somehow a gotcha to vegans

The guy is like a lib saying socialism is bad and then proceeding to describe capitalism as examples of said things lmao.

Kiwi is my favorite fruit. I always loved the taste but I thought was not practical to eat. Once I discovered that actually the skin was edible it changed my entire relation with Kiwis. Now I just gobble them up. Not sure if kiwi is uncommon though.

This is crazy to be so in support of China to start not taking the side of the workers and the proletariat, and excusing exploitation.

Disclaimer, I have not looked into this news deeply, but if the workers were in slave-like conditions, stopping the construction and forcing the conditions to improve is 100% the right move.

I really wish for China to continue improving workers rights, this is fundamental for a socialist state and if they don’t, I hope other countries won’t let them get away with this.

P.S.: Fuck the meat industry

Hahah supertux, I remember back when I was in the university we were playing it with friends on our linux laptops. There was an accelerometer in them to stop the HDD and prevent data loss in case it was dropped. The neat thing was that Supertux supported playing via the accelerometer! So there there were 4 people moving their laptops about, trying to control their karts while laughing too loud in the library lmao.

Oh wow I played Assault cube a lot when I was younger with friends as it was free and we did not have money to get the true counter-strike. Most of my online youth was spent on these free/libre games:

• Tremulous
• Cube 2: Sauerbraten
• Assault Cube
• Armagetron Advanced

I also played some non libre games like Urban Terror or Shadowbane when it went F2P.

Thanks for reminding me about all of this, I have many fond memories attached to all these games. That’s how I learned english as a matter of fact.

Ah sorry, I misunderstood what you were trying to say about budget. Thanks for the info regarding the clothing!

That’s a nice summary, although I don’t agree with all points you made (namely that being vegan increases the cost of food) but this will be highly dependent on where you live in the world and wont be materially feasible for everyone currently. I’ll dare say that legumes are probably cheaper than meat almost everywhere in the world though.

I think one obvious reason as you stated is that veganism and probably animal liberation theory could not become as widespread before the material condition for realizing it were widely available. I think B12 synthesis was achieved in the 1940’s so a fully vegan diet would have probably been complicated before that. Warm clothes would also be more complicated (disclaimer: I’m not that versed in clothing so there might have been other ways than fur that did not involve petroleum based materials)

On your point of food security there is actually a project named Food Empowerment Project that tries to advocate for food security through plant-based agriculture and also advocates for farm workers right, it’s based in the USA however.

lmao I’ve visited the balkans many times, namely Bosnia and Croatia and never had any issues with being a vegan. You do realize there are vegans in the balkans right? Most people I met there were way more understanding of it than you seem to be, but I guess you think your region would beat up people for disagreeing. Sorry to disappoint you but your region is better than you.

All you do is weak appeals to nature and you even tried to justify your shitty view by invoking Jesus lmao.

You’re the one coming into a post specifically asking about how vegan communists could get together and antagonizing people, who is the one stirring shit up? I guess for you the only people that are nice are the people that don’t speak up about things they believe in. Are you a fucking centrist lib? “The only leftists I like are the ones that shut up about it” is a lib take comrade.

To educate you on milk as you apparently have never thought about how milk is produced, you do realize that mammals only produce milk when they have a baby right? Here’s how milk is produced in our society:

• You masturbate a bull and get their semen
• You forcibly inject this semen in a cow’s vagina while shoving your fist in their anus to hold their cervix
• You wait 9 months.
• You take away their baby veal after they are born and either send them to slaughter for veal or to the barn to follow the same destiny as their mother
• You repeat this cycle every year until the milk production of the cow decreases enough so that it’s not profitable to keep the cow alive (usually no more than 5-6 years, whereas thein normal life expectancy can be 15-20years)
• Then you send the cow to the slaughterhouse.

Killing is most of the process of producing milk. If you gave me the choice between being a dairy cow or a meat cow, I’d choose being a meat cow anyday of the week as at least the suffering would be lessened.

You should stop embarrassing yourself as you have clearly no idea about what you’re talking about.

It is healthy and sustainable. There is multiple meta-studies confirming it and many gouvernemental associations of dietetics and nutritions say so, here is one such example.

You are the one forcing your “lifestyle” on sentient beings just because you enjoy it. Stop for 2 minutes and think what your behavior actually entails and what this means for your moral system.

Its clear you have no idea about what you’re talking about when you say that calcium is something you can only find in sufficient quantities in animal products. Stop typing like a toddler and go educate yourself.

Or do you seriously hold the position that milk from another mammal is necessary to the survival of humans despite the vast majority of them being intolerant to it ?

Omnivore means you can eat meat, it does not mean you need to eat meat.

Hey, I’ve been vegan for a few years and would be interested in it as well. I’ve mostly read theory on speciesim related to racism (Ko sisters) and related to validism (Sunaura Taylor). I’ve discussed this subject in an informal manner many times in socialist/anarchists movements with other comrades.

I have a book in my to-read since a few months (https://cup.columbia.edu/book/animal-oppression-and-human-violence/9780231151894). I don’t know the author, but it looks like it’s explicitly trying to draw a link between capitalism and animal exploitation. I’ll probably get to it in 1-2 months.

Here is also a comment where I tried to explain informally why I think veganism is worth it and not just an individualist action but a political statement https://hexbear.net/comment/5751548

someone’s life, they are not something.

Yes I agree, you and I are not living in a survival situation. We all have a lot of brainworms regarding animal exploitation that we must fight against as it has become so normalized nowadays in almost every aspect of our life. Cognitive dissonance makes us justify things in ways that if examined rationally or applied to other scenarios we would discard immediately.

Thanks for the recommendation and the explanation, I’ll add it to my reading list.

As animal liberation is one of the subject in which I am the more active, let me try to get you to understand my view on this subject as a vegan.

First, yes this is a systemic change and only individual changes would never amount to anything. The commodification of animal life is driven by profit. Currently this is the material basis for it that is then justified via speciest ideology. However, consumption is not neutral. The problem does not start at consumption but it is in part maintained by it.

For me living as a vegan it feels like a political statement that I’m expressing at a minimum 3 times per day around other people. This is praxis and helps challenge the exploitation that is pervasive in our society. It shows we can and must do better. It is in itself a small act and of course this won’t overthrow the specieist system and capitalism, it helps however raise collective consciousness about the issue and shows solidarity with the oppressed animals.

As most vegan will tell you, being vegan is not the end of the road, it’s only the start. Organize around the subject. Join political movements, join organizations that support workers transitioning out of these industries. Promote systemic changes/alternatives.

Finally let me answer to your last point: “the animal is already dead”. I feel like this is a really bad argument. Just because other people decided to do a terrible action does not mean you need to compromise your values and partake in it. Imagine yourself applying the same logic to humans. Especially when in the grocery store you might have alternative close by (think any legumes) that might be cheaper.

Imagine going into a store where there are two kinds of shirts. One is created by slave labor and the other is not. Would you accept someone saying, well I’m used to the kind of t-shirt created by slaves and these are already made anyway so why would I bother choosing the other? My point is of course if your medication contains animal product no animal liberation militant or vegan will berate you for using it, but when the alternative is literally 5 feet away in the same grocery store or a few blocks away then the arguments stops working.

You can draw a parallel to what Lenin says about compromises in “Left-Wing” Communism: An Infantile Disorder. A striker compromising with their oppressor because their strike fund is empty is not the same as a strike-breaker “compromising” with the oppressor. Some compromise are justifiable, others are not. Here you are “compromising” with your morals because you’re used to meat.

any ideals that are not rewarded by a material base I’m not sure I understand this sentence, could you get into it more or give me some book recommendation on this?

BTW I’m digging more into their position and found this bit again about identity politics:

These claim that some parts of the working class benefit from the oppression of others - which is in essence the same lie as the capitalists’ claim that oppressed workers take other people’s jobs.

What the fuck is this first part?! Do these people not understand systemic racism and how it can up to a point benefit working class white people? I mean also living in the imperial core is literally benefiting from the oppression of the periphery.

The idea that we can just become one big working class is an idealistic model of class politics that doesn’t represent historically successful communist parties.

You mean by pretending there are no oppressions between members of the same class ?

Sorry, I see this a lot bit never got what it’s supposed to mean.

That’s exactly how I felt reading it lmao!