I hope you grow and learn to have conversations with people of different points of view without getting all buthurt in the anus every time someone disagrees with you.

Where in the time line is the evidence for foreign western intervention, as is your claim?

Got any evidence… Of said sponsored elements involved in coup

I don’t disagree but it’s the sad reality of the world we live in. I don’t know what the solution is apart from more education but singling out this indv won’t get us far… I understand the frustration though.

Jeesus christ. Your walls of text and runon sentences make it very hard to follow what you are writing.

You totally agree with Harris being a bad choice but think it’s everyone that pointed out that she was a bad choice for making it seem like she was a bad choice for losing.

Close but no. There is no discourse happening here and a lot of projection going on from your part. It’s very hard to have a convo when one side makes one point and the other writes a wall of text essay while also calling the other names and insults non stop. I hope you find peace and hapiness wherever you are.

Cheers

Also, what does this even mean :

“If you want to see where the disconnect is happening look at your own responses where you say I disagree” because you want to.

All I said is I agree with some aspects and disagree with other aspects of your argument. What are you talking about???!!

You’re writing walls of text with very supercharged language. Something about this conversation is very triggering for you. You’ve also made it a point to downvote every one of my comments. Cool.

Could you summarize my position in one sentence so you can demonstrate you understand what I’m saying?

Lots of feelings there. Sorry pal. I hope you find a better place to be. We’re talking past each other. Just because someone says they disagree on a topic doesn’t mean it’s a personal attack on you. You have to find a way to make discourse with those of different opinions without making everything so personal.

Oh man. You took what I wrote very personally. I’m not sure where the disconnect is happening. I didnt accuse you of anything. In fact I agree with a lot of what you wrote. I even granted most of it. I’m just talking about messaging on the left. That’s all. I don’t understand how you can carry so much resentment in one post after I already granted a lot of what you wrote. It’s so bizarre to me. Also the endless condescension and analogies to spoon feeding. If you’re so angry that you can’t understand what others are writing then maybe it’s time to log off for a bit? Peace.

I understand what you’re saying and I don’t disagree. She didn’t speak to the working class as effectively. I’m familiar with this analysis and I find it to be true. Trump was able to hit a nerve with the economic woes that most Americans are feeling. I get it. But between 2020 and 24 Trump lost almost no voters despite how despicable and lacking in policy he was. He’s charismatic and was able to touch on the fear and anxiety brewing in the working class. I get it. You’re not telling me anything I haven’t heard or disagree with. Kamala’s campaign was weak sauce. I agree.

My point of contention that while there are some voices of disagreement among republicans, those individuals get excised immediately from the party. Trump loses nothing in terms of electability. His base has enough support that it will alway showup to vote. Every time.

The left is a big tent party and almost none of the left media apparatus got united with the messaging in supporting the DNC candidate —regardless of where she stood center left or left of center. Until we resolve not having this unified front, we can have the most charming left progressive candidate but it won’t matter.

You can talk about complexity and loopholes as means of exploiting complacency, but remember: we are standing on a century of progress and hard work. There is still a lot of work to be done, but it’s very privileged of us to make statements like those and discount all the years of activism and hard work that brought us to where we are. Are things good now? Far from it. But that’s because we still have a long way to go. People who keep bringing up the ratchet meme to show us how the rich are exploiting us have just blanched out a hundred years of history and progress and thrown it in the bin. You’re also about to find out how that hundred years gets reversed faster than you’ve ever seen.

Here’s reality: The republican party put forward a candidate that literally quoted Mein Kampf and was also found liable for sexual abuse in court by a jury. The entire republican media apparatus and electoral base not only stood behind him but rabidly endorsed him lockstep from beginning to end. The DNC put forward a candidate that wasn’t very left (I’ll be first to agree with you that her platform tried to cater to the center). I’ll also grant that she wasn’t as charming or funny as Trump and she came across as center technocrat. I’ll grant you all of that.

My issue is we’ll never make progress because democrats (and when I say democrats I mean beyond the electoral base to include the entire media environment) will shred and nitpick any candidate regardless of where their policies stand. It’s not the policies, because even your post is a testament that you don’t understand how policies translate into legislation. Bernie could have come out with universal healthcare, and I promise you the democratic media apparatus would still find something to nitpick. There just isn’t solidarity on this side as the democratic platform has a very strong plurality of voices that hardly ever agree. None of this is diversity of opinion is happening on the side that is pulling us into a christian neo-fascist state. And believe me: those guys show up to vote every time.

Let’s assume that her polices were too center for your preferences. So what? Now that republicans control all branches and the judicial they’ll dismantle everything we built up so far. So congratulations I guess? We have to redo 100 years of work because Kamala just wasnt left enough for us.

There’s no bad faith takes to be had as you added nothing new. Thanks, oh erudite historian. Thanks for the amazing insight you provided. Oh wait. Weve heard the same shit for the past two years. You really think very highly of yourself.

Yes. But you’re not adding anything new to the discourse or that we haven’t heard before. The issue is, I can’t know if you’re being intentional about it, is that sophists will take your statement about Putin feeling threatened and run with it until the night turns blue and discount everything else (especially the agency of sovereign nations). It seems to be the sole focus of your thesis here anyway. So Putin feels threatened about economic alliances on his border nations. We get it, don’t worry. Wow, how insightful.

I didn’t say we need to elect a centrist to enact progressive policy (and by the way, you may call Kamala a centrist but she also had some very progressive policies). Biden has also enacted many progressive policies, so to just hand wave it away is laughable. The issue is your understanding of how politics works. If Bernie was president it’s not like he could magic wand all your dreams into existence. This is something you guys either don’t understand or just willingly ignore so you can stick your nose up at whatever candidate the DNC puts up. It doesn’t matter because after Trump’s cabinet is done we will be set back another hundred years. He will have the house, the judicial and everything else and we can sit here real smug about how ‘centrist’ Kamala was.

That’s fine, and I could be mistaken, but your comments seem to select for particular facts of history and seem to omit others. You started the whole thread by repeating the talking point about Ukraine’s ascension to Europe as a threat to Putin. Cool. Was it the same case with Georgia and Tranznitztria? This is a Kremlin talking point that gets thrown around non-stop. You know what this talking point successfully leaves out of the conversation? Ukraine’s agency and the people of Ukraine. It seems the choice is appease Putin endlessly or allow sovereign nations to direct their own destiny. I cannot stress how much of social media is perpetuating this talking point that because Ukraine has made decisions that don’t align with whatever hell hole is left of the USSR, they now deserve to be the victims of a military invasion. It’s exhausting.

None of this negates the initial point. Regardless of Putins feelings of insecurity, the treaty as signed. You’re right, the obbligation to adhere can be waved but the right exists nevertheless.

Ukraine is a sovereign nation. I don’t understand the need for this incessant apologia for Russia’s actions? Oh Ukraine wants to join the EU zone? We’ll gosh darn it best not offend the big ol Russia. I suppose we should force all of Russia’s neighboring countries to surrender all their free will in exchange for some measure of security from the Kremlin because surely we can trust the Russians not to breach any treaties, right? Right?

This is straight up Kremlin talking points.

Right. But unfortunately that’s our reality. We have to build up. If we ever want to move that Overton window… well now it jumped ten steps to the right. It doesn’t go back and forth between each cabinet. It just keeps sliding into the right because again: the right has no standards and is happy to march in lockstep while we quibble over which progressive policy just isn’t good enough.

I fear we deserve to watch the nation burn because like you said, democracy requires vigilance

I don’t buy that. Trump got the undying loyalty support of all right wing media while Harris’s every word and move was scrutinized endlessly on left media. Even Joe Rogan - - supposed enlightened centrist - - did not dare criticize the god emperor Trump. It’s just not the same when it comes to the standards. We are so far from even beginning to have a conversation about progressive policies because we can’t even get our most basic candidates elected.

The right marches us in lockstep towards the bottom while we stick our noses up to our imperfect candidates. I just don’t buy it.

You’re kind of proving my point. We’re now left with the alternative. Again: because we couldn’t be bothered to show up to vote. That home buyer tax credit was one of many policies. Like the child tax credit was a really big deal. But again, here we are tearing her platform apart while the repubs are marching lockstep.

Trump gets to coast on the guarantee that his base will show up no matter any-thing. He is most vile person that ever held office (maybe Jackson is up there with him). But the DNC candidate has to thread carefully and reach near perfection or else face endless barrage of criticism from within.

The two parties seem to have vastly different standards and that’s why we can never move further left. The right wins on every turn regardless while the left is sticking their nose up because the DNC candidate is just never left enough.

I’m not convinced the left was ever going to show up for any candidate. They’re already castigating Bernie, of all people. They’ve already purged AOC.

From what I learned it seems there is absolutely no limit to the amount of purity testing that seems to happen on the left. In the meantime, Republicans are marching us lockstep into direct fascism. So we can’t get anything done because none of the dnc candidates are perfect. Meanwhile, Republicans literally have no standards.