Continuing their state-protected tour of violence, dozens of Israeli fans beat a french fan in the stands of the France v Israel match the other night. Some media has framed it as ‘booing and clashes’ but more and more videos from the game have been appearing since then.

Police and security did little to nothing to stop the violence as fans further down the stands looked on helplessly, but arrested French fans trying to get others out of the mob of Israeli hooligans. After the match an Israeli fan in an IDF tee shirt was interviewed by the French media grinning and saying the level of security was “wonderful, magnificent, maybe too much even” before pointing out that they had a “small incident in Block K” which they dealt with “directly”. There’s also video of French fans showing police and security, with video evidence on their phones, that the Israel fans were the aggressors. Of course they were ignored.

Macron and other French ministers were at the match to “show their support for fighting anti-semitism” after Amsterdam. They didn’t mention or condemn the Israeli violence against French fans afterward from what I can see.

When the leaders of European states repeatedly and reflexively defend Israeli violence against and above their own citizens as victims - in countries that are already sliding ever-rightward - they’re pouring fuel on the kindling of actual antisemitism. It’s going to end very badly indeed.

* taps sign *

This is particularly absurd when Zionists themselves proudly call themselves that and have written almost a century of political and cultural theory on the subject.

It would be like banning the term neoliberal as a slur.

It’s potentially useful for surveillance craft to look like non-descript passenger craft.

Plus you don’t want fighter jet speeds when you’re doing surviellance and SIGINT for targeting.

The optics and tech are where the money is spent.

They quietly changed the name a few weeks back when the inital reporting about their actions in Gaza came out. MFs know exactly how bad it looks and can’t profess innocence.

Every government minister and military official since this latests, worst extermination campaign began should unironically be sent to the

If Prager was dead I assume I and everyone else on Earth would have gotten a gleeful phonecall from Dave Anthony to tell us the news personally.

And Maradona’s agent and mate apparantly. Huh.

approved.

Is this the famous sister?

Am I ignoring easily confirmable facts in order to support genocide while pretending I’m a victim?

No. It’s my husband who has always been a secret racist against me.

I believe you pay for the privilege too.

I don’t think you need to organise a specific false-flag style plan, when starting shit and then falling to the ground screaming at the refs has been your standard practice for decades. Especially when ‘the refs’ in this case are the reactionary media/state apparatus that has thier own multitude of interests in promoting Zionism and supressing dissent (dependence on the US, weapons sales, political contributions, media grants, growing unrest at home about declining conditions, Israel as a laboratory for oppressive foreign and domestic policy etc).

The original reporting in Hebrew before the trip said Mossad agents were travelling with the team rather than the fans. I’m not saying that it impossible or even unlikely that some may have enjoyed joining their fash cohorts in putting the boot into people they hate either on the streets over those two nights or in the political and media response afterward, but just for the sake of accuracy I think that’s worth mentioning.

There is no doubt however that the Israeli state has a number of well-oiled machines and even government departments whose entire purpose is to do this whenever they believe they can take advantage of events and twist them to their benefit. Most states do this to some degree, but Israel puts an absurd amount of money, technology, and manpower behind their efforts even comparatively.

I think it’s business as usual.

I’ve had my criticisms of the way this was handled and of the behaviour of some mods in response, but I think it’s a real shame that Carcosa seems to feel the need to step away. Their effort here doesn’t go unrecognised and I hope they’ll be back, when they’re ready.

It really feels like we’ve lost one the people who was actually willing to talk to the community, does self-crit, and even admidst the storm was consistently willing to engage. Exactly the sort of person who should continue being one of the admin and mod team.

Certainly within the smaller Comms this would be useful.

I totally agree, and I say that as someone who took some schadenfreude in prominent media liberals suddenly being faced with the realisation that all their self-deluding electoralist optimism was just that. It’s entirely possible to see the sham of the American uniparty for exactly what it is and still feel shit or sad when the thing you know is likely to happen happens.

I just wanted to thank you for wading into this and giving a detailed and reasoned response. Even if I don’t agree with every word, I appreciate them all and can see your point of view. The work you and some of the other mods here put in continues to blow me away. You and those mods are the best of Hexbear, which is why I usually don’t weigh in on these editorial decisions.

Unfortunately, the behaviour and generally hostile and toxic responses of other mods around this issue have been a fucking embarrassment and have deeply hurt the argument for these changes or the idea they’re being done in good faith. (I think they are, for the record, even if I don’t entirely agree with all of it).

This appears to be a pattern with a couple of the mods who seem most aggressively for this decision and most against actually discussing it.

I just shrugged and moved on when it was clear I wasn’t going to get a reasonable reply, but you’re right that many of these mod replies aren’t even close to being in good faith.

At this point it really feels like a couple of mods here are just flinging shit because the majority don’t seem to agree with them and are annoyed at the disingenuous reasons given for this whole fuck up. It’s pretty embarrassing to be honest.

My experiences have been similar. Effort-posting in a reply to a news mega comment tends to do a lot better than making a unique post. Although I’ve often done both to try and increase the visibility of other comms.

The unfortunate thing is that I feel like this whole saga has made me less likely to contribute longer, more detailed posts. There’s a difference between spending time writing a longer post or reply because you feel like you have something to add that isn’t highlighted often or might be useful, and some version of it being a kind of mandated fee to post because a handful of mods seem to want it the whole thing gone but aren’t willing to just make that decision and stand by it.

Some of the mods here are great and continue being, but getting one word answers followed by dickish, oddly angry, and doomer-ish rants in response to genuine questions really sucks. It’s obviously not a 1:1, but it makes me feel a little like ‘if they can’t be arsed, why should I put the effort in?’. I’ve got better / more entertaining things I could be doing.

Thanks for the input.

On your last point I suppose I just don’t really see the dunk tank as people getting mad, perhaps because the content posted there is more likely to make me roll my eyes or have fun basking in the ridiculousness of the takes, than be legitimately angry at something some reactionary spewed out into the online space.

I definitely think there’s a reasonable argument as to not focus our efforts on tearing apart mostly anonymous takes that no one would probably otherwise see (even if it can occassionally be fun).

That being said, I think focusing on bad faith arguments or frequent reactionary sentiments or narratives primarily from ‘notable figures’ (however we define that) doesn’t really fit the way these things are often spread online. Increasingly this stuff is spread and reinforced through repetition by both bots and willing volunteers or just uncritical users online. Political think tanks, PR groups, propagandists of all stripes test this stuff online to see what sticks or gets taken up. Waiting for, or having to find a specific instance of, a politician or an Elon Musk or a well known Anglo op-ed writer feels oddly institutional and like putting the cart before the horse.

But perhaps I’m still missing something. Are there concerns about potential friendly fire against others on the left? An attempt to appear more welcoming to outsiders in general? Something else?