Bruh, people here are calling communists and anarchists “liberals”. How do I even argue with dumb shit like this? Fascists can’t be reasoned with, whether they like the 3rd Reich or the DPRK.
They’re not calling communists and anarchists liberals, they’re calling liberals liberals. Fascism doesn’t mean “people I don’t agree with” words actually mean things. You’d know this, if you weren’t a liberal, even if you don’t think you are one. Conservatives are liberals too, as liberalism is the dominant political idea in the west.
You might “believe” in it, but what actions have you done to accomplish it? How do you intend to go about it? Peacefully, I’m assuming? Because to use violence is authoritarian redfash tankie, yes?
So I want you to ask your landlord nicely and peacefully, to give up their property, entirely without violence, see how that goes, just convince them it’s wrong, that’ll work, right? They just don’t know that it’s a bad thing! We “tankies” don’t like violence, but we recognize it as an unfortunate necessity to help the struggling and the downtrodden.
Or is this not about that? Is this about evil authoritarians like Stalin and Mao? I’m assuming you’re a yank, or at least live in the west. You’ve grown up in a capitalist education system. Where did you learn that these people are bad? Which group of people ensures that every student in the west learns that these people are bad? Don’t you think the capitalists would have a vested interest in trying to convince people that any alternative to capitalism is even worse than it? Could it be that the things you’ve heard about “communist dictators” are just lies?
Don’t know why I’m wasting my time to be honest. I hope you’ll think on this, but I know you won’t. Smug ignorance is far more comfortable than challenging your pre-concieved notions.
How do you intend to go about it? Peacefully, I’m assuming? Because to use violence is authoritarian redfash tankie, yes?
Violence isn’t bed per se; it’s just a means to an end. It should be a last resort, but since capitalists have made it clear that they will not give up their system peacefully, it is necessary in order to remove them from power. Non-violence is a liberal lie spread to ensure no one challenges the status quo, hence why they gave themself the state monopoly on violence.
(note: I’m using “liberal” here to mean “liberal”, not “actual leftist” like it’s commonly seen in tankie circles)
I’m assuming you’re a yank, or at least live in the west.
I’m French.
You’ve grown up in a capitalist education system. Where did you learn that these people are bad? Which group of people ensures that every student in the west learns that these people are bad? Don’t you think the capitalists would have a vested interest in trying to convince people that any alternative to capitalism is even worse than it?
True. However, school specifically focused on the USSR and the eastern bloc in general, which was a genocidal dictatorship (this is an objective truth all historians agree with). Other alternatives to capitalism were not talked about much, if at all.
Could it be that the things you’ve heard about “communist dictators” are just lies?
Could it be that the things *you’*ve heard about “communist dictators” are just lies? You’re not immune to Russian and Chinese propaganda.
Don’t know why I’m wasting my time to be honest. I hope you’ll think on this, but I know you won’t. Smug ignorance is far more comfortable than challenging your pre-concieved notions.
Same. You’ll never convince me I’m a liberal (because I’m not), and I’ll never convince you I’m an actual communist and you’re not (because anyone who supports genocidal imperialistic dictatorships isn’t a leftist).
Ok, let me try one last time. Every single “tankie” here was in the same position you are now. Every one of us believed everything we were told about the horrors of the USSR and China and Cuba, any and all socialist states. We aren’t being “brainwashed” by another country on the other side of the planet, we have tried to understand these places better, of our own accord. And what we’ve found is that while these places are not perfect, they are grossly misrepresented in the west. The capitalists want you to hate socialism and socialist states, they don’t care if you call yourself a socialist or not while you do so. Your anti-communism, sorry, anti-tankieism is indistinguishable from any western liberal who says “socialism works in theory but in practice it just leads to evil dictators.” How are you actually different from them if you believe everything they do about socialism? How are you actually a socialist if actual socialists disagree with you and liberals agree with you instead?
Please, if you consider yourself a socialist, read theory, seek to learn, to understand, rather than just trying to dismiss people because their position frustrates you. The ruling class in the west wants us to fight amongst ourselves and what you’re doing right now is exactly what they want from people. People who wear socialism like a T-shirt. People who don’t learn about it, don’t try to understand it, don’t try to actually create a socialist state because it is seen as “authoritarian.” I know it makes you mad when we call you a liberal. It should, and I’m sorry for that, but your are behaving exactly like one right now. I don’t think you’re a bad person, I just think you’re being corralled into a capitalist friendly version of socialism, which is impotent and ineffectual. “Leftcoms” if you’d rather not be called a liberal, have been criticised for their inability to accomplish anything for over a century. Is that really how you want your “communism” to be? Just a bunch of empty impotent, impractical ideas and denunciations of those who did something, who improved things, flawed as they may be, because they weren’t perfect? Do you really want to sit around your whole life with your thumb up your ass waiting for “perfect” socialism to arrive?
Please, read theory, Lenin especially. Your ideas are not new ones, they are very old hat, even cliche at this point, one of the oldest means of stifling communism was to corral it into “safe” versions which denounced all attempts at socialist experiments.
I’d recommend this work in particular, but if you’re a lib, it won’t interest you, I know how much libs hate learning new things: https://www.marxist.com/classics-marxism-two-book/left-wing-communism-an-infantile-disorder.htm
I was really hoping they’d actually try to think about that one, but nope. The capitalists aren’t to be trusted, except when they talk about socialist countries, then they just care about making sure everybody knows the Truth about how evil bad they are.
Bruh, people here are calling communists and anarchists “liberals”. How do I even argue with dumb shit like this? Fascists can’t be reasoned with, whether they like the 3rd Reich or the DPRK.
They’re not calling communists and anarchists liberals, they’re calling liberals liberals. Fascism doesn’t mean “people I don’t agree with” words actually mean things. You’d know this, if you weren’t a liberal, even if you don’t think you are one. Conservatives are liberals too, as liberalism is the dominant political idea in the west.
Liberal doesn’t mean “someone who believes in the abolition of private property”, words actually mean things.
You might “believe” in it, but what actions have you done to accomplish it? How do you intend to go about it? Peacefully, I’m assuming? Because to use violence is authoritarian redfash tankie, yes?
So I want you to ask your landlord nicely and peacefully, to give up their property, entirely without violence, see how that goes, just convince them it’s wrong, that’ll work, right? They just don’t know that it’s a bad thing! We “tankies” don’t like violence, but we recognize it as an unfortunate necessity to help the struggling and the downtrodden.
Or is this not about that? Is this about evil authoritarians like Stalin and Mao? I’m assuming you’re a yank, or at least live in the west. You’ve grown up in a capitalist education system. Where did you learn that these people are bad? Which group of people ensures that every student in the west learns that these people are bad? Don’t you think the capitalists would have a vested interest in trying to convince people that any alternative to capitalism is even worse than it? Could it be that the things you’ve heard about “communist dictators” are just lies?
Don’t know why I’m wasting my time to be honest. I hope you’ll think on this, but I know you won’t. Smug ignorance is far more comfortable than challenging your pre-concieved notions.
Violence isn’t bed per se; it’s just a means to an end. It should be a last resort, but since capitalists have made it clear that they will not give up their system peacefully, it is necessary in order to remove them from power. Non-violence is a liberal lie spread to ensure no one challenges the status quo, hence why they gave themself the state monopoly on violence.
(note: I’m using “liberal” here to mean “liberal”, not “actual leftist” like it’s commonly seen in tankie circles)
I’m French.
True. However, school specifically focused on the USSR and the eastern bloc in general, which was a genocidal dictatorship (this is an objective truth all historians agree with). Other alternatives to capitalism were not talked about much, if at all.
Could it be that the things *you’*ve heard about “communist dictators” are just lies? You’re not immune to Russian and Chinese propaganda.
Same. You’ll never convince me I’m a liberal (because I’m not), and I’ll never convince you I’m an actual communist and you’re not (because anyone who supports genocidal imperialistic dictatorships isn’t a leftist).
Ok, let me try one last time. Every single “tankie” here was in the same position you are now. Every one of us believed everything we were told about the horrors of the USSR and China and Cuba, any and all socialist states. We aren’t being “brainwashed” by another country on the other side of the planet, we have tried to understand these places better, of our own accord. And what we’ve found is that while these places are not perfect, they are grossly misrepresented in the west. The capitalists want you to hate socialism and socialist states, they don’t care if you call yourself a socialist or not while you do so. Your anti-communism, sorry, anti-tankieism is indistinguishable from any western liberal who says “socialism works in theory but in practice it just leads to evil dictators.” How are you actually different from them if you believe everything they do about socialism? How are you actually a socialist if actual socialists disagree with you and liberals agree with you instead?
Please, if you consider yourself a socialist, read theory, seek to learn, to understand, rather than just trying to dismiss people because their position frustrates you. The ruling class in the west wants us to fight amongst ourselves and what you’re doing right now is exactly what they want from people. People who wear socialism like a T-shirt. People who don’t learn about it, don’t try to understand it, don’t try to actually create a socialist state because it is seen as “authoritarian.” I know it makes you mad when we call you a liberal. It should, and I’m sorry for that, but your are behaving exactly like one right now. I don’t think you’re a bad person, I just think you’re being corralled into a capitalist friendly version of socialism, which is impotent and ineffectual. “Leftcoms” if you’d rather not be called a liberal, have been criticised for their inability to accomplish anything for over a century. Is that really how you want your “communism” to be? Just a bunch of empty impotent, impractical ideas and denunciations of those who did something, who improved things, flawed as they may be, because they weren’t perfect? Do you really want to sit around your whole life with your thumb up your ass waiting for “perfect” socialism to arrive?
Please, read theory, Lenin especially. Your ideas are not new ones, they are very old hat, even cliche at this point, one of the oldest means of stifling communism was to corral it into “safe” versions which denounced all attempts at socialist experiments. I’d recommend this work in particular, but if you’re a lib, it won’t interest you, I know how much libs hate learning new things: https://www.marxist.com/classics-marxism-two-book/left-wing-communism-an-infantile-disorder.htm
Lol school gave you capitalist propaganda. In a capitalist country.
Hmm
I was really hoping they’d actually try to think about that one, but nope. The capitalists aren’t to be trusted, except when they talk about socialist countries, then they just care about making sure everybody knows the Truth about how evil bad they are.
Your country has had a 70+ year anti-communist campaign that’s been very effective, as is shown in your case.
The USSR is the only reason France isn’t speaking German rn: https://www.vox.com/2014/6/16/5814270/the-successful-70-year-campaign-to-convince-people-the-usa-and-not
https://lemmygrad.ml/post/1155