IMO, communism, as I understand it, actually doesn’t, yet achieving it through socialism (as USSR tried) is not the way, instead going the collectivist anarchism route and straight up ditching the vertical power structures is better.
Like when you keep states, they start protecting themselves/oppressing othets and turn into a class of their own, thus eliminating the possibility of them self-disdolving when the society becomes classless.
Although it’s not that I’ve read a whole lot on the topic, so it may be much more complicated than that
In a vacuum, that sounds great. But it totally fails to recognize the existence of imperialist capitalist powers that will fucking destroy you if you try that on a scale that gets in their way. The USSR looked the way it did not because of what they were trying to build, but because of what was necessary to prevent their destruction. Once capitalism is gone, it’s a very different story
Is it necessary to threaten them, tho? Just showing ppl around better living is possible while not calling yourself a scary communist and not making direct moves towards converting the other countries (and instead being generally friendly) may work, I hope (and then said others try the same stuff on their own). The only problem in that case is the possibility of being attacked before achieving moderately well self-sufficiency, tho, and I’m not sure how high it is
Your project is small enough to not be of any concern to capitalists. You don’t claim any valuable resources, and you don’t have much industrialization. Your social structure might be great, but you lack the amenities that most modern people would consider essential for a “good life”. You could potentially keep this project going for a while within an anarchist framework, but you’re not going to change the world.
You have abundant resources and adequate industrialization. (Somehow you acquired these without capital or violent revolution?) You are demonstrating an attractive alternative to the capitalist system and are sitting on resources that could be valuable to some major business interests. They WILL try to use state power fucking kill you, if they aren’t able to corrupt you and buy you out. You will be gaslighted by every major media outlet, your parents will think you’re a baby killing terrorist, and the US military will be preparing an invasion at your border. If you don’t adopt a militant, disciplined organizational structure to combat these moves, the commune will be defeated.
That’s why, to Marxists, the primary goal is a military victory over capitalism. Of course the socialist states that remain will not represent the end goal, and we shouldn’t expect them to “wither away” without effort. But if capitalists can no longer command state power, the viability of the kind of society we want suddenly becomes plausible
Is it necessary to threaten them, tho? Just showing ppl around better living is possible while not calling yourself a scary communist and not making direct moves towards converting the other countries (and instead being generally friendly) may work, I hope
communism is necessarily an international project so “not making direct moves towards converting other countries” is kinda hard in that framework. Even if you do aim for socialism in one country, the capitalists will oppose you regardless and spread propaganda about you, sanction you, and threaten to invade you. This is literally what is happening with China right now. They are (actually very frustratingly to us communists) explicitly not trying to export revolution abroad, and yet they still get tarred with endless propaganda about how they’re doing totalitarian repression and genocide in Xinjiang and all the factories need to have suicide nets and they all have unsafe working conditions and so on. Compare this to a nearby country like South Korea, which has totalitarian control except by corporations (like Samsung) and much worse social problems.
How much time does the American media spend complaining about South Korea’s authoritarianism and suicide rates, etc, compared to China’s, if authoritarianism and social issues were the actual problems that America cared about? How much time does the American media spend complaining about Israel’s genocide in Palestine and the fences and surveillance cameras and the EXTREMELY totalitarian conditions that Palestinians have been under for DECADES, if totalitarianism and genocide were the actual problems that America cared about? No, America only fearmongers and spreads propaganda about China because they’re seen as a threat to them, despite China trying their utmost for many years to appease the United States. Literally all the Chinese government talk about is “win-win cooperation” and so on, while government committees in America denounce China every other day and try and prepare for war with them.
China has lifted hundreds of millions of people out of poverty and created a superpower out of little more than a series of colonies. It has much better transport infrastructure and builds entirely new cities to contain the housing problem and is taking big, meaningful steps towards turning housing from an “investment” for the bourgeoisie into a public good instead. China is the prime example of “showing ppl around better living is possible while not calling yourself a scary communist and not making direct moves towards converting the other countries”. And because of American propaganda and astroturfing, many Westerners hate China with a burning passion, instead of seeing the many, many successes. Many don’t even really know why they hate China, at least compared to other countries that have worse problems with repression like India, Israel, and South Korea, and instead seem to essentially believe that making Tiananmen Square jokes and Winnie the Pooh jokes are like, these deeply funny and edgy things that if you say them in a game chat, then Chinese players are going to be dragged out of their home or something, which is… like, so inherently fucking ridiculous of a belief to have that truly, only dumbfuck brainwashed Westerners could be stupid enough to believe it. It’s almost as stupid as Westerners who think that North Koreans think unicorns are real and dozens of other bizarre myths. Honestly, at a certain point, it feels like Western media and intelligence agencies are just making fun of Americans and Europeans. “Alright, what myth should we make up next? Let’s say… hmm… let’s say that Chinese people think that the Earth is flat, and North Koreans don’t believe in the Moon because Kim Jong Un said it doesn’t exist. God, our citizens are so fucking stupid that they’ll lap this shit right up.”
Vibes based politics mf.
Both sides suck
“Both” implies there are 2. Fortunately, there aren’t
Care to elaborate on what doesn’t suck?
IMO, communism, as I understand it, actually doesn’t, yet achieving it through socialism (as USSR tried) is not the way, instead going the collectivist anarchism route and straight up ditching the vertical power structures is better.
Like when you keep states, they start protecting themselves/oppressing othets and turn into a class of their own, thus eliminating the possibility of them self-disdolving when the society becomes classless.
Although it’s not that I’ve read a whole lot on the topic, so it may be much more complicated than that
In a vacuum, that sounds great. But it totally fails to recognize the existence of imperialist capitalist powers that will fucking destroy you if you try that on a scale that gets in their way. The USSR looked the way it did not because of what they were trying to build, but because of what was necessary to prevent their destruction. Once capitalism is gone, it’s a very different story
Is it necessary to threaten them, tho? Just showing ppl around better living is possible while not calling yourself a scary communist and not making direct moves towards converting the other countries (and instead being generally friendly) may work, I hope (and then said others try the same stuff on their own). The only problem in that case is the possibility of being attacked before achieving moderately well self-sufficiency, tho, and I’m not sure how high it is
There are two options here.
Your project is small enough to not be of any concern to capitalists. You don’t claim any valuable resources, and you don’t have much industrialization. Your social structure might be great, but you lack the amenities that most modern people would consider essential for a “good life”. You could potentially keep this project going for a while within an anarchist framework, but you’re not going to change the world.
You have abundant resources and adequate industrialization. (Somehow you acquired these without capital or violent revolution?) You are demonstrating an attractive alternative to the capitalist system and are sitting on resources that could be valuable to some major business interests. They WILL try to use state power fucking kill you, if they aren’t able to corrupt you and buy you out. You will be gaslighted by every major media outlet, your parents will think you’re a baby killing terrorist, and the US military will be preparing an invasion at your border. If you don’t adopt a militant, disciplined organizational structure to combat these moves, the commune will be defeated.
That’s why, to Marxists, the primary goal is a military victory over capitalism. Of course the socialist states that remain will not represent the end goal, and we shouldn’t expect them to “wither away” without effort. But if capitalists can no longer command state power, the viability of the kind of society we want suddenly becomes plausible
communism is necessarily an international project so “not making direct moves towards converting other countries” is kinda hard in that framework. Even if you do aim for socialism in one country, the capitalists will oppose you regardless and spread propaganda about you, sanction you, and threaten to invade you. This is literally what is happening with China right now. They are (actually very frustratingly to us communists) explicitly not trying to export revolution abroad, and yet they still get tarred with endless propaganda about how they’re doing totalitarian repression and genocide in Xinjiang and all the factories need to have suicide nets and they all have unsafe working conditions and so on. Compare this to a nearby country like South Korea, which has totalitarian control except by corporations (like Samsung) and much worse social problems.
How much time does the American media spend complaining about South Korea’s authoritarianism and suicide rates, etc, compared to China’s, if authoritarianism and social issues were the actual problems that America cared about? How much time does the American media spend complaining about Israel’s genocide in Palestine and the fences and surveillance cameras and the EXTREMELY totalitarian conditions that Palestinians have been under for DECADES, if totalitarianism and genocide were the actual problems that America cared about? No, America only fearmongers and spreads propaganda about China because they’re seen as a threat to them, despite China trying their utmost for many years to appease the United States. Literally all the Chinese government talk about is “win-win cooperation” and so on, while government committees in America denounce China every other day and try and prepare for war with them.
China has lifted hundreds of millions of people out of poverty and created a superpower out of little more than a series of colonies. It has much better transport infrastructure and builds entirely new cities to contain the housing problem and is taking big, meaningful steps towards turning housing from an “investment” for the bourgeoisie into a public good instead. China is the prime example of “showing ppl around better living is possible while not calling yourself a scary communist and not making direct moves towards converting the other countries”. And because of American propaganda and astroturfing, many Westerners hate China with a burning passion, instead of seeing the many, many successes. Many don’t even really know why they hate China, at least compared to other countries that have worse problems with repression like India, Israel, and South Korea, and instead seem to essentially believe that making Tiananmen Square jokes and Winnie the Pooh jokes are like, these deeply funny and edgy things that if you say them in a game chat, then Chinese players are going to be dragged out of their home or something, which is… like, so inherently fucking ridiculous of a belief to have that truly, only dumbfuck brainwashed Westerners could be stupid enough to believe it. It’s almost as stupid as Westerners who think that North Koreans think unicorns are real and dozens of other bizarre myths. Honestly, at a certain point, it feels like Western media and intelligence agencies are just making fun of Americans and Europeans. “Alright, what myth should we make up next? Let’s say… hmm… let’s say that Chinese people think that the Earth is flat, and North Koreans don’t believe in the Moon because Kim Jong Un said it doesn’t exist. God, our citizens are so fucking stupid that they’ll lap this shit right up.”