A lot of the posts here are just pointing out how illogical religion is, which I don’t mind. I’m religious myself, but I’m well aware how ridiculous it is. What does bother me is the arguments against Christianity that are used as arguments against all religions. Most of you were likely raised christian, so I understand why you focus on it, but most religions don’t have all of the problems Christianity does. I think a lot of the posts here would fit better in an ex-christian community.
I’m sure this community is open for each kind of religion criticism. Maybe post other stuff that comes to your mind. Or just block the community if you can’t stand it
I just want to fix a problem I saw here. I thought most people would understand where I’m coming from and want to fix it. I don’t hate this community so much that I want to block it, and I’m not invested enough to try to change it myself by posting a lot here.
I’m not a part of this community but I think it’s understandable that Christianity would be the main focus since it is the hegemony of western culture
I understand this, but its the atheism community, not the ex Christian community. I think it should be specified if you are critiquing a specific religion.
Think about it this way, the only reason for an atheist community to even exist is to stand in direct opposition to theism. Without theism, there is no atheism. Therefore, atheists will tend to speak against whatever the dominant religion is in their culture or their former religion, only occasionally deviating to speak against other religions when they cause problems. As an example, Islam is not a problem in my day to day life, so I generally only address it when speaking about news events or issues as they arise and come to my attention or affect me directly. As a westerner of European descent, if I were to fixate on Islam even though I honestly find it to be more problematic dogmatically than Christianity, I would probably be labeled a racist or a bigot. There’s also the consideration of how much energy and personal bandwidth I really want to devote to arguing about concepts that I think are dumb.
I don’t think you should fixate on any religion. I think you should fixate on religion itself. I understand that you deal with Christianity more, but this isn’t a-christianity, its atheism. I understand why you might want to focus on Christianity, my problem is that its framed as a critique of religion in general. I don’t like being wrongfully grouped in with Christians. I just want it to be specified when something you talk about is only a problem in Christianity.
If you keep having problems remembering not to take posts that are not directed at you personally, maybe this isn’t the right group for you?
This isn’t the group for me, I’m not an atheist. I made this post to try to fix a problem I saw here, not to make it a better space for me. I assumed that people would receive this better and understand the problem once I pointed it out.
If you believe in a supernatural deity, then you’re not being wrongfully grouped.
How exactly? Is every religion the same to you?
In the context of atheism, yes. They all rely on blind faith in a deity.
Ok, I agree, but that’s not the problem. The problem is criticisms of specific religions that are framed as criticisms of all religions.
I don’t know which posts you’re taking issue with exactly, but I personally try to be pretty precise when I criticize religions because I think that’s the best way to criticize them. Speaking broadly about all supernatural phenomena being bullshit only gets you so far in a conversation. Vague statements like “the world would be more peaceful without religion” are only so meaningful.
The other thing to consider is that religions aren’t monolithic entities either. If I’m criticizing American Christian theocrats, I’m generally not addressing moderate Christians who believe in separation of church and state. If I’m criticizing jihadists and burkas, I’m obviously not addressing moderate Muslims. Context has to be taken into consideration. If people feel personally attacked by what I say because of a general association with religion broadly or a specific religion, it’s kind of a them problem, not a me problem. And, btw, I’m saying all this as a nontheistic satanist who has plenty of experience having my own religion misunderstood.
I don’t know which posts you’re taking issue with exactly, but I personally try to be pretty precise when I criticize religions because I think that’s the best way to criticize them.
Good, that’s all I want. As long as you specify that you are talking about an individual religion, it won’t bother me. You aren’t my problem.
And, btw, I’m saying all this as a nontheistic satanist who has plenty of experience having my own religion misunderstood.
I’m not trying to be rude but wouldn’t that just come with the territory? If you call yourself a satanist then I imagine a lot of people would reasonably assume you believe in and worship Satan.
Only if they can’t be bothered to ask questions and do a little research instead of making assumptions.
Do you really not see how that could cause confusion? Christians believe in and worship Christ, why wouldn’t they apply the same logic to you? Everyone makes assumptions when they are that obvious, I don’t understand how you can blame that misconception on them.
I’m not trying to be rude but wouldn’t that just come with the territory? If you call yourself a satanist then I imagine a lot of people would reasonably assume you believe in and worship Satan.
Right, what I mean is I just don’t let it bother me when people have misconceptions about my beliefs. Their attacks are meaningless because they don’t even understand what I believe. By mentioning this, I was trying to suggest not letting it bother you so much if people make broad criticisms of religion because they probably don’t know what your specific beliefs actually are and might not even be speaking to them. It’s kind of like when people say All Cops Are Bastards. That’s obviously an absolutist statement that can’t possibly be true, but people like to be hyperbolic to get their point across.
By mentioning this, I was trying to suggest not letting it bother you so much if people make broad criticisms of religion because they probably don’t know what your specific beliefs actually are and might not even be speaking to them.
It doesn’t bother me when people make broad criticisms of religion, it bothers me when there is no distinction between specific religions and all religion. I may have worded badly what I said before, I am not very insulted by what I see here. I am more just disappointed because I think it detracts from the experience here. I just want people to know what they are criticizing and clarify if it is needed. Communities like this often devolve into echo chambers and I think the lack of clarification makes it more difficult to have open and respectful conversations on these topics. My experience here has been much better than the atheism subreddit, which is why I care enough to point out this problem. I want to keep it that way, and I want it to be even better than it is now. I don’t want this to be yet another group of people making the same 4 posts about how smart they are and how dumb Christians are. But that’s all I see in the posts that I’m talking about.
So, pray to stop it, I guess
I made this post as respectfully as I could. You don’t have to be passive aggressive like that.
Most religions share the same problems. Sure, they each have their own hangups, but much of what people bitch about with Xtianity is common in other world religions.
The majority of posts here are about the concept of hell, and proselytizing. Neither are aspects of all religions. There are plenty of arguments against religion you could make, you don’t have to go after aspects of specific religions. If those are the only problems someone has with religion, then why should they be an atheist? They could just as easily find a different religion that doesn’t have those problems.
You can’t really equate Christianity with Christianity either.
I’ve got you, mate. Gonna focus on more equal Christian bashing, Muslim bashing, Jew bashing, Mormon bashing, Hindu bashing, Scientology bashing, Buddhist bashing, and so on.
As long as you acknowledge that you are bashing a religion and not all of them.
What problems does Christianity have that other religions do not? For that matter, what problems don’t other religions have that Christianity does?
My religion doesn’t threaten people with eternal damnation and claim its “love”. It also doesn’t proselytize. It also encourages thinking things out yourself and not just blindly following what you are told. I’m sure there are problems with my religion and others that Christianity doesn’t have, but I can’t think of any off the top of my head. I’m not knowledgeable about the majority of religions out there, just mine and to a lesser extent Christianity.
Christianity doesn’t claim the threat is love. And proselytizing isn’t inherently bad. I feel like you’ve misrepresented Christianity and also left out what religion you follow on purpose. My guess is that it’s a religion you’ve formed yourself rather than a mainstream one as most mainstream religions require sharing the faith.
I’m exagerrating because I’m not fond of Christianity. My point here isn’t to make an argument against Christianity though, it’s to say why its important to specify which religion you are talking about. I left out my religion because its not really relevant but if you must know, I’m a noahide. Its not massively popular but its been around longer than Christianity and I most certainly did not form it myself.
This sub isn’t anti-religion. It’s atheism. It’s likely the same critiques apply to you. It’s not important to specify which flavor of deism. It’s still deism.
It is important if you are focusing on things that aren’t attributes of all forms of deism. If you are doing this, it shouldn’t be treated like an attribute of deism itself. There is a difference and it is important.
I think you need to separate belief from religion. Personal belief is all fine. Everyone has the right to their opinions and freedom to practice them as long as it does not harm a third party. What is difficult is when you bring in religion, which is built on some consensus about belief and the problems that arise from that.
The posts here aren’t always just against organized religion. Plenty are against all beliefs not backed by science. A lot of them are specifically against Christianity. If this community was a critique of organized religion as a whole, then I wouldn’t care. I just want things to be called what they are.
Basically, know what you are talking about, don’t overgeneralize, use appropriate terminology. I think this is a good request in general and also well aligned with the (assumed) self-image of many atheists. So I’m a bit surprised about the downvotes. Do we prefer to be willfully ignorant?
In /r/debatereligion, I learned a lot about different religions and concepts. I found the conversations between people of vastly different beliefs most interesting when they were done in a constructive manner, which requires mutual respect and openness.
It also requires the community to actively support this goal, to not turn into a dull echo chamber.
I prefer quality posts and comments, truth and accuracy. As such, of course no single religion should be equated to religion as a whole.
Thanks, I was also pretty surprised by the down votes. My experience on Lemmy so far would have led me to believe this post would be received well. I will say this community has been much better than its reddit counterpart though.
I’ve had great conversations here, which is part of the reason I cared enough to make this post. If there’s any place this community could thrive as a place for open conversation, its here.
