Looking to see if I am welcom on kbin to express the viewpoint that it is not possible to be “trans.”
I assert that it is not possible to transition and that gender is the same as sex.
Is this an acceptable viewpoint on kbin, or will I be banned for expressing this?
Not looking to start a fight, just want to know if such speech is tolerated here.
Let me preface this by saying that I disagree with your viewpoint in its entirety, and that I am not an admin nor an instance moderator on Kbin.
Here’s the thing. If your intention is to come into Kbin, or Lemmy, or any other space here, and start spouting your viewpoint anywhere and everywhere - for example, in Pro-Trans spaces, or in spaces that have nothing to do with gender, you can expect some heavy pushback, including (likely) removal from those spaces. If your intention is to come in here and find or create a community that is conducive to posting about your viewpoint, you probably won’t really have much trouble.
You sound like someone who is looking to make trouble, though, which is the only reason I can see for you to have posted this in this particular manner. If that’s your intention, I think I can safely say, on behalf of the Lemmy / Kbin community, fuck right off. There’s plenty of Lemmy instances that you can join that won’t kick you out for this viewpoint, so probably go find one of those.
You say that there are plenty of instances, can you point me in the right direction?
Like I said, I’m not looking for a fight. I’m also not looking at making 1,000 posts on all manner of topics only to find myself banned from the entire server because of post number 1,001 which says that it is not logically possible to both male and a woman. This is my genuinely held belief, and I don’t think the opposing viewpoint is so beyond reproach that my opposition isn’t even worth engaging. This is the problem that I had on Reddit - pro-trans people would come into conservative subreddits and report dozens of people for hate-speech, which would result in a site-wide bans, rather than a subreddit bans. A sub-ban is one thing, but a site-wide ban is something totally different.
I’m just looking to avoid getting established on an instance that will ban me because I write down that, “Bruce Jenner isn’t a woman,” for example.
You say that there are plenty of instances, can you point me in the right direction?
No, I can’t, because the instance I’m a member of is very pro-trans, and we tend not to federate with instances that make the opposing viewpoint as large a part of their discourse as you seem to want to.
If you simply can’t find a conservatively aligned instance to join, though, the beauty of the Fediverse is that you can create one. Create an instance that caters to the crowd you want to associate with. Let them come to you, then nobody can ban you for your views. (You will likely face defederation from a number of other instances, though, so be aware of that possibility.)
Thanks for the level headed response. Everyone deserves their own space to share opinions, even if you and me don’t like them. That’s what Lemmy and kbin are ultimately far better at than Reddit and similar.
I agree with you that it’s important for everyone to have a space to share their opinions, if only so that they will congregate in those spaces and stay out of our spaces. The ‘Nazi Bar’ story came immediately to mind when I saw this post (originally posted on Twitter by @iamragesparkle):
I was at a shitty crustpunk bar once getting an after-work beer. One of those shitholes where the bartenders clearly hate you. So the bartender and I were ignoring one another when someone sits next to me and he immediately says, “no. get out.” And the dude next to me says, “hey i’m not doing anything, i’m a paying customer.” and the bartender reaches under the counter for a bat or something and says, “out. now.” and the dude leaves, kind of yelling. And he was dressed in a punk uniform, I noticed
Anyway, I asked what that was about and the bartender was like, “you didn’t see his vest but it was all nazi shit. Iron crosses and stuff. You get to recognize them.” And i was like, ohok and he continues. "you have to nip it in the bud immediately. These guys come in and it’s always a nice, polite one. And you serve them because you don’t want to cause a scene. And then they become a regular and after awhile they bring a friend. And that dude is cool too. And then THEY bring friends and the friends bring friends and they stop being cool and then you realize, oh shit, this is a Nazi bar now. And it’s too late because they’re entrenched and if you try to kick them out, they cause a PROBLEM. So you have to shut them down.
And i was like, ‘oh damn.’ and he said “yeah, you have to ignore their reasonable arguments because their end goal is to be terrible, awful people.”
And then he went back to ignoring me. But I haven’t forgotten that at all.
I don’t want to drink in a Nazi bar, and I assume you don’t want to drink in a Nazi bar, but it’s still important for the Nazi bar to exist somewhere, so the Nazis have somewhere to go that isn’t here.
Hey, let me know what instance you settle on so I can block it. Not trying to start a fight or anything, I believe you should have a voice. I just don’t want to hear it.
You may have the best luck starting with instances that are widely defederated. Insisting that trans experience is invalid is not considered acceptable in most communities, and instances that accept it are generally siloed.
I sincerely recommend listening to a trans person speak about their experience though. The best way to avoid getting removed from places for hate speech is to stop hating people.
I did research and found an instance with rules and moderation and federation philosophies that aligned with my viewpoints. I am fully confident in your ability to do that same work for yourself.
I’m not confident in OP’s ability to do that. They clearly struggle with their own research or they wouldn’t be in this mess
I’m not looking to fight
And yet you again post something so offensive and factually wrong:
it is not logically possible to both male and a woman
If you were a facts and logic person you’d at minimum acknowledge that sex and gender are not one and the same (hint: they aren’t the same word and are not synonyms), and that gender exists on a spectrum as does sex. These are the facts, your assertions are not.
“I’m not looking for a fight, but I am going to say this thing that invalidates the reality of an entire class of people.”
No. That’s not an “acceptable viewpoint”. Tolerance of the intolerant is intolerable.
But that said, if you spend most of your time here talking about normal topics and stay off the anti-trans bullshit, you won’t be banned.
OP said in another thread that they’ve been banned 10 times from Reddit for being “able to articulate various logical arguments against transgenderism”. 🙄
OP sounds fucking exhausting to be around
Imagine being so terminally online that you not only keep track of exactly how many times you’ve been banned on Reddit and why, but also fail to develop any self awareness.
Afaik, it isn’t expressly forbidden. But you aren’t going to have much luck spouting that kind of inaccurate view. I mean, I’m having trouble not poking at the egregiously misused words in there, and I’m fairly chill about letting people figure things out on their own.
So, I don’t think you’ll find the viewpoint tolerated by fellow users, regardless of what any official stance is
There’s a fine line between “free speech” and “hate speech”. Doing hate speech is not free speech. In my experience, it’s usually americans who don’t understand this.
Americans have fetishised the concept of free speech to a remarkable degree. Virtually no other country permits such a toxic policy.
It all stems from a fundamental misunderstanding (or intentional ignorance, I imagine, in many cases) of what ‘free speech’ really means in the US constitution. All it means is that you can speak out against the government without being jailed for your views. It definitely does not mean that people can say whatever they want without consequences, even though that’s what people who hold particularly abhorrent views would like everyone to believe.
Europeans and being casually xenophobic with zero prompting. Really wish that could be more unexpected post-reddit.
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- Before joining an instance you can go to their /terms page and see if they will tolerate you because you’re just making stuff up and your ignorance will hurt and endanger people. Most KBIN and Lemmy servers will, fortunately, not willingly host you because of this.
- I won’t tolerate you, so don’t join my instance. So, 1 down.
Is this an acceptable viewpoint
No. Go away.
People’s existence is not the subject of debate. Bugger off, troll.
If that kind of free speech is allowed, I absolutely pray that I’m also allowed to mock you incessantly for it. Conservatives check in like “Hey am I allowed to be intolerant here? I just wanna be sure you won’t ban me for spouting hate.”
you can spout incorrect shit, but you’ll probably be banned. Freedom of speech and freedom of association go hand in hand, and admins here will deplatform you much the same way a KKK member at a comedy club will be shown the door.
Freedom of speech isn’t freedom from consequences. And your right to say what you want doesn’t mean people will want to listen to it, nor that they shouldn’t express their disapproval by whatever means they wish.
Try it and find out. If you get banned, start your own instance. People will be free to join you, ignore you, and/or defederate you as they see fit.
I guess time will tell, but I’d question why you need to assert this? What difference does it make whether people want to consider their gender fluid or not?
Well, that depends on how your doing it. If you’re normal about it, I think it would be fine. If you go looking for arguments and make it personal and non-civil it doesn’t matter which views you have, you will get banned from at least some magazines.
Theoretically there’s “no hate speech” in the rules, but I haven’t seen anyone getting banned for that. You’d need to find out yourself what’s their definition of this word.
Good thing you don’t determine what’s reality and what isn’t with your personal assertions then, as you’re not very good at it.
On whether you’ll be banned, hopefully. Hate speech is not protected speech.
