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Almost 90 bombs were dropped in one region in just 24 hours.
Russia unleashed an unprecedented bombardment in southern Ukraine overnight in what local officials described as a “massive attack” in the conflict which has continued to rage even as the international community’s attention has moved to the war between Israel and Hamas in Gaza.
The Ukrainian Internal Affairs Ministry on Monday morning said Russia dropped at least “87 aerial bombs on populated areas of the Kherson region - the largest number for all time.” At least eight people were also injured in other Russian strikes carried out in the Odessa region further to the west on Sunday night.
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Ukraine needs all the air defense they can get. Russia has been signaling they will try again to freeze the civilian population this winter.
If we’d shift funds from Israel (who are committing genocide) to Ukraine (who are defending themselves) it helps Palestine and hurts Russia too.
Is a win/win.
Imagine if Ukraine had the iron dome America bought Israel.
Imagine if Ukraine had the iron dome America bought Israel.
I know your heart is in the right place but ID barely covers a city and operating costs are extremely high. Right now the missiles that the ID system uses cost something around $1,000,000 each so defending just this latest bombing run would have been $90,000,000 USD.
No one could afford to operate the system even if it could be built.
ID interceptor missiles are more like $50k-150k a piece, but multiple are fired during each interception to increase chances of a successful hit. The amount fired already since the 7th is still probably in the $1-2 billion range if you estimate conservatively.
Iron Knife and Iron Beam are much cheaper per shot (~$4 and $2500 respectively) but are developed by Israel itself in collaboration with US military industrial contractors. The Gaza war is a giant live fire test for them and countries including the US and India are lining up to buy them.
Iron Dome as a whole thing array also includes David’s Sling and the Arrows which cover different type of attacks. I. E. Cruise and ballistic missiles amongst other things.
You are correct I just didn’t want to get into the details of how the system works. I think my main points still stand; the technical challenges of expanding a system like that to cover a a whole country would be massive and actually running it would be far too expensive.
Oh yea for sure it’s not feasible for anyone except maybe the US and in specific areas and along dangerous borders.
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Israel doesn’t actually need American money, unfortunately. Sure, it helps them, but they can continue this campaign for a long time without a dollar from the U.S. Ukraine, on the other hand, is a much more desperate situation. I’m not saying that means we shouldn’t shift funds from Israel to Ukraine, because I agree we should do that, but it will likely not help Palestinians much.
So you want Israel to be bombed even more and everyone there killed? Because that’s the plan of Palestine and Lebanon (which is genocide btw). And would happen if they didn’t have the iron dome.
Those bombings only happen because of retaliation to turning their country into a concentration camp.
Terrorism can not be justified, but I doubt many (including you) would act differently if you were in the situation Palestine is in.
Palestine did plenty much on their own to turn Gaza and West Bank into places not good to live in. Decisions I would definitely not share since I am not an Islamic non-democratic women-and-LGBTQ-hating anti-Semite.
They are not concentration camps. Perhaps you should look at how concentration camps worked if you try to compare the two.
Israel, just like Russia, can simply stop occupying territories which don’t belong to them and stop a genocide. And no one will be killed. Stop apologizing the genocide, ok?
Hamas attacked an area that did not belong to Palestine. And the areas they are constantly shooting rockets at are also not the areas that Israel took unrightfully. The idea that Palestine is only defending and not attacking doesn’t fit their agenda or their behaviour in the past and now.
Wut? Are you high?
Israel is defending itself as well. They just have a better counter attack success rate. Or did we forget that Ukraine also wants to bomb Moscow etc. (and has launched drones etc).
The key difference is one is a gov one is a terror org who represents their gov.
No expert seriously believes that Ukraine has the ability to bomb Moscow. The few small-scale drone attacks attributed to it --Ukraine officially denied responsibility-- are thought to have been meant as psy ops, kind of a wake up call to Moscow, a city that Putin has gone out of his way to insulate from the war --none of his conscripts come from Moscow, for example.
Imagine all the dead Jews that would cause too.
Palestine isn’t a nation of saints.
Israel assassinates journalists and sells weapons grade hacking technology to oppressive regimes.
Also, until Israel started their ground assault Jews hadn’t really been dying since 7 October. Almost all deaths since then have been Palestinian.
Which is a “nation of saints”?
Western Samoa seems pretty chill.
There is a lot of misinformation in your comment.
The United States didn’t fund Israel’s iron dome system.
There isn’t a genocide (race / tribe killing) in Gaza. That’s a population transfer or eviction of lands.
Ukraine and the United States are working together to implement a air defense system. A likely defense treaty and a 100 year lease on military bases in exchange for infrastructure rebuilding is on the table.
There isn’t a genocide (race / tribe killing) in Gaza
Genocide isn’t just killing…
In the present Convention, genocide means any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such:
Killing members of the group;
Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group;
Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part;
Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group;
Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group.
https://www.un.org/en/genocideprevention/genocide.shtml
And even if that was just indiscriminate killing based on race/ethnicity, the UN is already saying what Israel is doing amounts to that
Your opinion is your opinion.
But what is/isn’t a genocide is clearly defined in the Geneva convention. And even if you’re definition was correct, the UN disagrees with you about Israel meeting that definition.
The UN’s humans rights body is heavily biased against Israel. And in general not a neutral party as you seem to think.
Of the 193 countries which make up the UN, the majority (133) are non-democratic states. 48 are countries belonging to the OIC (Organisation of Islamic Cooperation).
Of the 280 human rights condemnations the UN has found world wide between 2006 and 2023, 103 where in Israel. They found none in, for example, China, Pakistan or Saudi Arabia. They also didn’t cry genocide during the genocide in Rwanda.
I 100 % believe Israel commits war crimes against Palestine. But I do not believe that Israel alone is responsible for almost 40 % of all human rights violations world wide since 2006.
So all war is genocide by that definition.
Some wars are about who gets control over some resources, or who will be collecting the taxes, without trying to wipe out the other side.
Geno: Race or Tribe
Cide: Killing
If you’re going to use a Latin word, use it right.
If you’re going to argue the international definition of genocide…
You might want to go talk to the UN and all the signatories of the Geneva Convention.
The United Nations use of the word was translated incorrectly to English and is wrong.
If that was true, then I’m sure there’s lots of statements from human rights organizations world wide clarifying how it’s wrong.
Do you mind linking one?
Quick edit:
Also, that doesn’t mean Israel isn’t breaking the Geneva Convention…
In fact, it seems to be admission that they are…
and literally literally means literally but now we use it to mean figuratively
turns out language is about use, not origin
If you’re going to use a Latin word, you might want to use it correctly.
Geno comes from ancient Greek.
Genos is the Greek word. Geno is the Latin.
That’s a population transfer or eviction of lands.
Jesus christ.
That is what Israel has stated is their plan, relocation.
Ethnic cleansing is the systematic forced removal of ethnic, racial, or religious groups from a given area, with the intent of making a region ethnically homogeneous. Along with direct removal, extermination, deportation or population transfer, it also includes indirect methods aimed at forced migration by coercing the victim group to flee and preventing its return, such as murder, rape, and property destruction.[3][4][5] It constitutes a crime against humanity and may also fall under the Genocide Convention, even though ethnic cleansing has no legal definition under international criminal law.[3][6][7]
Yes, stupid people (United Nations for example) use the wrong word, all the time, especially when it’s translated from another language. Genocide is the wrong word to use. Israel is not wiping out nor trying to wipe out the Palestinians.
Since you’re the top mod, can I just remind you that you broke rule 5?
Or do I need to report your comment?
You’re still not understanding though, and it’s very important as a mod you understand this issue. Otherwise I’d have stopped replying already.
This ain’t an etymology thing. Definitions are clarified for legal purposes. I think you have to ask yourself why you’re trying to dig your heels in against a literal definition. They didn’t define it wrong, it’s literally defined in excruciating and exacting detail for legal purposes.
So genocide
Incorrect word.
The use of a loaded latin word like genocide is used to invoke mass killing and wiping out a population completely. If you see it used you know the source is extremely biased and should not be taken as fact.
Use the correct language so you don’t look like a fool.
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You keep repeating this like you believe it. Find an English dictionary you’ll realise it’s an English word and it has a precise meaning that is not what you think it is. The fact you don’t agree with that meaning is your problem only, you don’t get to decide
Genocide is an English word with English definitions.
You can argue about its roots and such, but that’s a different discussion.
It’s like “decimate”. Decimate is an English word with a different definition to the Latin word its based on. It used to mean “kill one in every ten”, now it means “to kill/destroy almost, but not completely”. (Almost the opposite meaning)
Looks like it’s all going according to Putin’s plan.
I’m the last guy to put on a tinfoil hat, but the whole situation seems like it was engineered by Russia to take pressure off their war with the Ukraine.
I’d say it’s simpler than that. Russia keeps funding regions it wants destabilized so something bad is always happening at a time good for Russia.
No tinfoil hat, but total Scumbag Putin.
Guy must have a copy of 7 Effective Habits.
Yes, you prefer your James Bond chessmater plan than facts.
Literally no idea what your trying to argue for here. I told the person above me that it doesn’t have to be some crazy conspiracy.
Were you trying to respond to him? Or are you one of those people who thinks Putin is a saint? In both cases, I’m the wrong person to reply that way to. I’m the voice of reason here.
More likely an opportune moment for Putin. The Gaza conflict seems to have been primarily stoked by Iran over concerns of growing positive Israel and Saudi Arabia relations
And Russia has been purchasing large amounts of Iranian munitions. It’s not that far fetched for Russia to simply throw some money at Iran to throw a bit less money at Hamas to start some shit
Iran does not now and never has needed Russian money to finance Hamas. This is a much older pre-existing relationship that its had with Hamas for decades. Furthermore, Iran and Hamas, as well as the other Iranian proxies, have a much greater interest than Russia in ensuring that Israel doesn’t normalize relations with the KSA and other Arab nations. Accordingly, while Russia is happy to see this all go down, there’s very little chance that they played any active role in it at all.
There was no real indication for the scope and intensity of the hamas attacks. Based on US and Israeli Intel. There were some kind of warning signs, but nothing pointing to this ferocity. I think fighters got far further than they could dream of, and the severity of the response is a direct reaction to the failure of the isreali army to see and stop the attack. It’s difficult to believe that the kremlin had more and better information to know that an attack would lead to war on the scale we see today. And I’m willing to believe that Russia sees benefits in arming hamas through the lens of geopolitics, they aren’t controlling the actions of hamas in any meaningful way, I certainly don’t believe that.
Putin is just taking advantage and is absolutely never harmed by being seen as some kind of geopolitical mastermind. He isn’t.
Take the pressure off to help optics but also to squeeze any western support
They said that the Hamas attack took at least one year to plan, maybe 18 months. Putin thought he would win the war on Ukraine quickly.
So I have my doubts that this was perfectly orchestrated to take attention away at the right time.
Russia and Iran’s strategy is more likely loosely aligned.
Putin would have steamrolled Ukraine quickly if Trump had been reelected. There’s a reason Russian troops massed on the Ukraine border right at the election. Putin couldn’t back down when Trump lost, and lose face.
He probably could have, haha dumb westerners thought we were going to invade. They’ve trolled before.
They could just have said their special military training exercise was just that, an exercise.
But imagine that, a Russia that isn’t lying.
Presumably he knew there was more than an outside chance the war took over a year. And it could easily have been assisted by Russia while already in the works.
Looks like it’s all going according to Putin’s plan.
Which plan? Almost certainly not his first plan. I think plan B and C have been tried also.
Given how much Putin spent on Israilian DPI and their other… systems, I don’t see it impossible.
Why not the opposite in that case? Why can’t the Ukraine thing be a distraction, if one of these events is a distraction for the other?
It was a great plan, if so. Russia obviously knew Israel wanted to start completing the genocide, and it wouldnt be beyond belief that Russia got extra rocket supplies into Gaza. It’s not even, like, deceitful, it’s just good planning. The best way to get away with something is to get someone else to do something way worse. And genocide is clearly way worse than Russia reclaiming a historically Russian area.
Fuck Putin, the warmongering cunt. I hope Ukraine continues to get Western support and can kick Russia out of their country, however slim the chances might be looking right now. Russia extending its influence and things gradually going back to business as usual, only for them to do it again in another 10 years won’t be good for any Western democracies.
Haven’t really been following the Israel/Palestine thing much to be honest, but it would be nice if people would stop killing one another. Also really sucks that it benefits Putin.
I truly feel like if we let Russia get anything that might count as a positive for them from this war, there will definitely be a new war of at least similar scale, but probably significantly worse and significantly less contained.
We let Hitler take shit and it didn’t end well, the repurcussions of that are at war today.
it still blows me away on how similar this is to the taking of australia and the Sudetenlands.
Lmao did you mean Austria?
I did but I will not edit it for the amusement of others.
He actually did take Australia but nobody noticed since they thought it was a typo. It’s been a nazi country ever since.
Now that would be an interesting alternate history
At this level, I think you are just dumb.
Russia wants to keep unobstructed access to the Black Sea, for its freight and military ships.
The EU and China want to keep a railroad from China to the EU, through Kazakhstan and Ukraine or Belarus, to cut in half the time freight ships take.
Both need control over the same piece(s) of land.
For reference:
Russia already has access to the Black Sea even without any Ukrainian land.
Russia has access to the Black Sea through the Sea of Azov, which is controlled by whoever controls Crimea… and to maintain control over Crimea, Russia needs supply lines over a land access at least across the Donbass, not just through a bridge that can be bombed at any time, as it has been already.
Both the Donbass and Crimea, Ukraine considers to be Ukrainian land, even though the history of both areas is plagued by forced resettlements during the USSR times.
Additionally, there are natural resources, some ports, and a nuclear plant in the Donbass area, which Russia would happily take over.
Russia has a long stretch of Black Sea coast outside of the Sea of Azov. They don’t need any more land to use that.
Please look again at the map for the Unified Deep Water System.
This isn’t about having a port on the Black Sea, it’s about having ships from ports in inland Russia getting unobstructed waterway access to the Black Sea, from where they can go to the Mediterranean and beyond.
Then it looks like they need to change their strategy.
The chances aren’t as slim as many people seem to imagine. Putin is basically in a holding pattern for now. He’s holding out on the chance that Trump might win a second term, thus changing everything about the current dynamic. If Trump doesn’t win, Putin is probably in pretty big trouble since he almost certainly won’t survive a defeat in Ukraine and will be hard-pressed to find a good exit that doesn’t look like one.
How is trump remotely relevant to Putin?
It is sad to see Putin’s oligarchs “honorable buisnessmen”, while everyone else should cross border naked and without phones or laptops. If they were lucky enough to get visa in the first place.
in another 10 years won’t be good for any Western democracies.
Another 10 years of Putin won’t be good for any democracy. Fuck Putin.
Putin the war monger? Bro, Biden is literally funding genocide. The west calling Putin a warmonger is insanely hypocritical. It’s not Russia that is responsible for most of the violence in the middle east in the 21st century, America is.
is this ‘the west’ in the room with us
does he have a blog perhaps, id love to read his takes
“The West” means America’s zone of influence. Otherwise known as Europe, NA, and parts of other continents. Why are you questioning the definition of a word? It’s just what the term means.
i figured you mustve meant an actual specific person, since disagreeing with something doesnt suddenly make you a hypocrite if some guy you have nothing to do with in the same ~1 billion people group you were born into also does it
is it actually hypocrisy that youre using a wrong definition for, then?
Every American that gives a shit about Russias actions and is not very loudly against American imperialism, even though their own country regularly does far worse wars in the middle east, and is currently funding a genocide, is a hypocrite. Even if Russia were somehow worse than America, despite committing far fewer war crimes and crimes against humanity, Americans who care about Russia need to STFU. When you have a problem in your own home, you fix it, you don’t go around criticizing others. Americans need to fix our imperialism problem.
Makes sense, UN can only produce a finite amount of concern, not enough to express it on 2 major conflicts.
UN doing absolutely diddly in two major theaters of conflict rather than just the one.
The UN’s role is to prevent conflict between major powers, not stop all war period. It has done an exemplary job at that, better than any organization in history. There have been no wars between major world powers in the past 75 years. Prior to that, all empires were constantly at each other’s throats.
idk how much of that really is the UN and how much can just be attributed to mutually assured destruction
Good point, but we can understand it as a parallel solution. People deride the UN as a debate society, but that’s the point. Countries yell at each other and get domestic points that way instead of attacking each other.
You don’t understand what the UN is. It’s a common misconception.
The purpose of the UN is to have a diplomatic environment where all can be heard in front of all others. It’s to encourage diplomatic solutions to problems and to defuse conflicts.
The UN doesn’t have any way to do anything, it’s merely a fancy forum. Its members could meet at the UN and decide to do something (although it can be legally complicated) but that’s not on the UN.
The purpose of the UN is to have a diplomatic environment where all can be heard in front of all others.
A dialogue that fails to yield productive policy is mere busy work.
It’s to encourage diplomatic solutions to problems and to defuse conflicts.
Right now we’re having a debate over whether a ceasefire would be antisemitic. That’s not a conversation that behooves diplomatic solutions or defuses conflicts. It just serves to distract public attention while folks in Gaza are exterminated.
We all hope that you’ll graduate into the diplomatic corps of whatever place you’re in and single-handedly solve the world’s problems. Best luck to you.
There’s certain openings. Since the war started, even Biden’s designated state department armies dealer can no longer stomach the job.
At this point, pouring on the bombs (shortly after gloating that the new speaker in congress suits Russia) seems likely to be as much about shifting morale (getting Ukraine to worry that its support from the west will dry up with Kremlin toadies in control of Washington’s purse strings) as it is about on-the-ground strategy or tactics.
It’s not like new Israeli atrocities detracts significantly from the world’s ability to pay attention to the atrocities in Ukraine, but anything that gives Moscow something else to gesture at gives it something to whatabout over, and getting the rest of the world (including nato members and US politicians) to fight amongst themselves (over whether it’s better to back a genocidal ethnostate or the terrorists resisting it) is always a win when the alternative might be for them to unify against your invasion of Ukraine.
It is amazing how the news cycle dropped Ukraine so fast. Not good for getting US support, but I think Ukraine can still get support from Europe.
dropped?
we never drop our money makers just because you don’t hear about it. Double the wars, double the profits. what are you even talking about? All I see is money money money. now we get to ask for even more money as there is more demand and limited supply.
Mr. Krabs? What are you doing on Lemmy?
Money money money. Almost like money makes the world go 'round.
Can we please give the armed forces of Ukraine finally airplanes? The offensive is going nowhere if they are not supplied with an edge in combat gear.
Unfortunately it’s not that easy.
They have already got a large sum of F16’s, but it takes training of Ukrainian pilots before they can be used in combat.
From what I understand they should be ready to fly in early 2024. That still a long time to go - but you don’t want to lose pilots or planes because of inexperience with that type of airplane.
3-4 months until planned delivery of F16s
The planes aren’t what’s taking time. The F-16s are either being used for training, which is totally unnecessary as that training takes place in the US, and we have a few hundred of the things pretty much just sitting around, or are on standby to be deployed. The training of the pilots is what’s taking time. I suspect Putin knows he’s about to lose air superiority, and this attack is a demonstration of that. He’s using what little weapons he has left, while he still can.
Nothing the West is willing to provide is going to change the course of the war alone. That ship has sailed, this is back to an attritional war with positional fighting.
The only thing the West can do now is provide LONG term commitments, written in law e.g. locked in funding for 5+ years of arms transfers.
Unfortunately, I don’t know how good the odds are that will happen. I hope it does, but we’ll just have to wait and see.
The ONLY other way for either Russia, or Ukraine, to win, is a new technological development that enables a significant change to the current battlefield dynamics.
This is a fairly simplified analysis, but it does align with the most current assessments provided by both the Ukrainian and Russian military leadership.
Haven’t you seen the pattern:
- Ukraine: Give us [some weapon].
- US/NATO: No, it would mean WW3.
Let some time pass.
- US/NATO: Well, we could send you some [some weapon].
Rinse and repeat.
And still getting his ass kicked by civilian volunteers with drones.
Why don’t the Russian people get rid of this asshole?
It’s a little harder than you imagine Source: I’m Russian
Ye, me too brother. People think 🤔 Russia is like easily changeable or something… I think people forget just how many Russians and other people Russians have killed and imprisoned since Russia began so to say. I think people don’t understand that Russia never had a democracy… Ever. I don’t think people get that it’s not easy to live and survive in Russia no matter when and where…
Also it’s as if people pretend not to know that if You protest 🪧 anything in Russia; you’re fucked.
People also don’t know that the policemen rape people / men in prison. They torture You and rape you. At anytime You can be put in an MMA style fight against an opponent who will brutalize You before You die of the physical injuries.
I don’t think people understand that if the world doesn’t help to establish a democracy in Russia that Russia will always ; always go back to its corrupt ways.
I don’t think people understand that there are also Russians who’ve been totally brainwashed just the same way that people got / get brainwashed in states like China, north Korea and Nazi Germany ( in the passed ) , imperial Japan etc.
I don’t think people get that its not easy to be the hero a martar or organize a rebellion when you’re under a violent regime and when all you have is your small family or none at all
Seems pretty simple, get tank, stand on tank with paper, scream loudly and voila we are done. Also, radiation salad works well.
Gosh… Why didn’t the Germans kill Hitler? Why didn’t Japanese kill their “emperor” during world war 2? Why didn’t soviets kill Stalin or lenin ? What’s up with the dictators in China, why didn’t the Chinese kill them ? Why don’t the north Koreans kill their “leader”? Why didn’t Iraqi people kill Saddam Husain? Why didn’t Syria kill their Bashar al Assad? Why didn’t the Cubans kill Fidel Castro? Why didn’t the French kill Napoleon Bonaparte?
Maybe 🤔😏 people just LOVE living under dictatorial regimes?
Who knows?.. We’ll probably never know…
/S
We were all wondering how Trump made it out alive tbh
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The French managed it. The Haitians. Even the Libyans. I know it’s easier said than done, but quitters never win, do they?
Commented their way to revolution. Got it.
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The world watching has never stopped him before.
What a totally unforeseeable situation.
So he’s… not dead?
Saying goes it is a doppler
I think he doesn’t want Laos to be the most bombed country in the world anymore.
90 bombs is more what was dropped per second there, not per day
Yeah calling 90 bombs ‘record’ is a deep, almost orange hue of piss yellow journalism
Might be record in the context of the Ukraine war not in all human history
Buy 2 TVs, so you can watch both human miseries unfold at the same time! Better than anything Hollywood or Bollywood or Nollywood could ever produce! And when you get bored, just vote in another war fueling and genocide financing psychopathic “lesser evil” moron into the office, so you never get bored of human despair and pain.
honestly? America only had as much to do with the Ukraine war as it was giving them the ability to defend themselves.
Lol to the comments saying it is engineered by Iran and Russia.
WHILE ISRAELIS MINISTER ASK THE GOVERNMENT TO NUKE GAZA
AND THE OTHER TO STOP PEOPLE FROM HARVESTING OLIVES IN THE WEST BANK. WHICH SHOULD NOT BE UNDER THERE RULE ANYWAY…
If you allow and support Isreal attack on Gaza Without any form of accountability of War Crimes Based on UN definitions of War Crimes, Russia will do the same…
Russia has already been doing the same for a year and a half now, you absolute fucking nozzle. WTF is wrong with you people? Have you no fucking decency? Your selective outrage is telling.
Oh boy. Anyways, that’s just how the right wingers make themselves look more moderate by incorporating extremist into the mix to act as a lightning rod with their idiotic and completely ultraviolent positions.
and at least, they do that against a sovereign and military state - and West providing ammunition and weapons.
Israeli is really a piece of shit!
Just as planned
