• blight [he/him]@hexbear.net
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    1 year ago

    I think you missed her point, she’s saying that westerners have a narrow view of what even counts as “democracy”.

    Iosif V. Dzhugashvili quote

    • rodbiren@midwest.social
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      1 year ago

      I mean, certainly one could pick out a few test cases to indicate a democracy. Do the citizens have the apparent right to…

      • criticize the government freely
      • due process and unpartial justice
      • fair treatment of minority groups
      • run for office when qualified
      • free press

      The US has a lot of headwinds on this short list but at least I am aware of the atrocities it has committed, can ask questions without being disappeared, and can theoretically run for office without being shot. Our democracy is ugly as hell, but at least I can see it. I question all governments that claim some higher ground.

      • Bnova [he/him]@hexbear.net
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        1 year ago

        criticize the government freely

        How many peaceful protesters got bagged in unmarked vans in 2020?

        Also the Chicago PD have black sites where they would disappear people without cause and their families would not be notified.

        due process and unpartial justice

        Yeah it would really suck to be locked up for years without a trial.

        fair treatment of minority groups

        Yeah that’s definitely not a thing in the US I’m not even sure how you could possibly think that it is unless you got kicked in the head by a donkey.

        run for office

        Okay…

        when qualified

        Who determines this qualification?

        free press

        It’s really easy for the press to be free when the same multinational corporations that the US works on behalf of also own the “free” press.

        It’s really interesting that you didn’t mention the one thing that I think a democracy actually has to have: representation/reflection of the will of the citizenry.

        • SkingradGuard [he/him, comrade/them]@hexbear.net
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          1 year ago

          How many peaceful protesters got bagged in unmarked vans in 2020? Also the Chicago PD have black sites where they would disappear people without cause and their families would not be notified

          “Heh, don’t you know, hexchanner, that not all cops are bad and a few bad apples don’t condemn our great system of burgerland freedom?” smuglord

      • BelieveRevolt [he/him]@hexbear.net
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        1 year ago

        due process and unpartial justice

        fair treatment of minority groups

        The US

        michael-laugh

        I question all governments that claim some higher ground.

        Wow, such insight. I’m glad we have such an enlightened person in our midst to tell us that what if, like, all governments are bad, man? smuglord (and by that I mean China bad)

      • Flyberius [comrade/them]@hexbear.net
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        1 year ago

        With regards to the US and UK.

        Ask people like Julian Assange or Dr David Kelly whether or not you can criticize the government. You can’t ask Dr Kelly because he was murdered, and you will have trouble with Assange as he’s been illegally imprisoned for 4 years.

        Again, ask Assange if he is getting due process, if you can get into Belmarsh prison.

        Minority groups don’t get fair treatment.

        The qualification for running for office is to be rich and connected. If you are not rich and connected and it looks like you might actually win, your name will be dragged through the mud by the “free” press.

        The press is bought and paid for and dances to the tune of capital.

      • GarbageShoot [he/him]@hexbear.net
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        1 year ago

        due process and unpartial justice

        This is absolutely not the case in the US. Do you have any idea how common it is to just take plea deals because public lawyers are too overworked to handle their caseload?

      • Tankiedesantski [he/him]@hexbear.net
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        1 year ago

        The US has a lot of headwinds on this short list but at least I am aware of the atrocities it has committed, can ask questions without being disappeared, and can theoretically run for office without being shot.

        You can criticize all you want but your criticism will be buried and ignored. You can run for office but you won’t stand a chance unless you bend the knee to a major party or be rat fucked by them.

        The Western demcratic system has devolved to a point where it’s mostly for show. Parties only differ from each other on relatively minor policies and in most places you are simply voting for neoliberalism or more neoliberalism. Studies have shown that public opinion has pretty negligible effect on the chance of a law passing. You can see this I’m how a majority of Americans support universal healthcare but that reform never passes.

        You’ve been taught that the choice of red coke or blue coke is the ultimate power, never questioning why you must always drink coke and nothing else.

      • zephyreks [none/use name]@hexbear.net
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        1 year ago

        How much movement has there been on key issues like healthcare, education, housing, affordability, climate change, and homelessness? What about LGBTQ+ rights, abortion, police brutality, and the racial prison gap?

        The goal of democracy is for the government to follow the will of the people. In fact, the goal of all modern governments is to follow the will of the people. Has that happened in America?