I don’t get how these things also couldn’t exist in your conception without the United States? How are national parks, created via acts of Congress and other various government declarations, less to do with the existence of the United States as it is than the particulars of gay culture you like? Which I would argue generally exist despite the us government not because of it.
Anything we could possibly contribute to American culture could be better enjoyed without the oppressive evil of the American government or America as a state.
True. I suppose I meant people will make good food regardless of if the American state exists as it does. Of course the history of this terrible place impacts the people in it and what they do and thus the culture they develop.
I’m basically agreeing with you and trying to parse what the previous person said … Why are queer spaces uniquely worth crediting the American state with while things like food and national parks are not. Because of course the Americans states unique history of oppression influences modern queer culture in America just as slavery and imperialism influence it’s people’s food.
Neither would exist as they do without the American state but that of course does not abdicate the state from its evils.
it’s like the food example that the other person responded with.
queer spaces similar (but not the same) can and do exist outside the american empire.
these specific queer spaces that i described do not exist in the same way outside the american empire for similar reasons that slavery or calmex or soulfood food exists.
I think we are all on the same page in regards to certain things only existing as they do because of the American state and it’s history. We all agree that history shapes present. Bbnh69420 I believe had the same question I had which is what makes these queer spaces so uniquely American that other examples given lack? What makes them more unique than the examples that “that could theoretically exist without the united states”?
If with the phrase “can only exist because of the united state’s presence in its current form” you meam that these queer spaces can only continue to exist as long as the United States continues to I disagree. No more would American queer spaces vanish than would soul food if the boot of empire was removed. But both indeed would not have manifested identically in an alternate history with no USA.
So really I’m just trying to understand that difference in perspective.
I think we are all on the same page in regards to certain things only existing as they do because of the American state and it’s history. We all agree that history shapes present. Bbnh69420 I believe had the same question I had which is what makes these queer spaces so uniquely American that other examples given lack? What makes them more unique than the examples that “that could theoretically exist without the united states”?
If with the phrase “can only exist because of the united state’s presence in its current form” you meam that these queer spaces can only continue to exist as long as the United States continues to I disagree. No more would American queer spaces vanish than would soul food if the boot of empire was removed. But both indeed would not have manifested identically in an alternate history with no USA.
unlike the empire’s boot; these spaces are accidents or oversights and that were once allowed to flourish in the united state’s presence in it’s current form. that current form won’t be around for long since this country has been changing; it’s been growing more conservative as evidenced by blue cities and red states alike closing these places down, even before trump appeared on the scene. austin is an excellent example of this: all such spaces i described have been forced to closed down; but since this is a niche within a niche of americans, there’s little to no outcry. san francisco takes the opposite approach: these spaces were closed down by covid and not allowed to return due to ordinances from the 1980’s preventing their return. this is why soul food can continue to exist, but these spaces cannot; no one in their right mind would want to make soul food illegal. lol
I don’t get how these things also couldn’t exist in your conception without the United States? How are national parks, created via acts of Congress and other various government declarations, less to do with the existence of the United States as it is than the particulars of gay culture you like? Which I would argue generally exist despite the us government not because of it.
Anything we could possibly contribute to American culture could be better enjoyed without the oppressive evil of the American government or America as a state.
Exactly. Homophobia was a major axis of US policy forever, I imagine without that influence the entire world might have more queer friendly spaces now
Soul food, a specific result of american slavery, and calmex, imperialism, also would not exist without the US
True. I suppose I meant people will make good food regardless of if the American state exists as it does. Of course the history of this terrible place impacts the people in it and what they do and thus the culture they develop.
I’m basically agreeing with you and trying to parse what the previous person said … Why are queer spaces uniquely worth crediting the American state with while things like food and national parks are not. Because of course the Americans states unique history of oppression influences modern queer culture in America just as slavery and imperialism influence it’s people’s food.
Neither would exist as they do without the American state but that of course does not abdicate the state from its evils.
No I was agreeing with you and trying to bolster your point!
Oh my bad! Sorry my reading comprehension is low this morning… Because that seems clear reading again.
it’s like the food example that the other person responded with.
queer spaces similar (but not the same) can and do exist outside the american empire.
these specific queer spaces that i described do not exist in the same way outside the american empire for similar reasons that slavery or calmex or soulfood food exists.
I think we are all on the same page in regards to certain things only existing as they do because of the American state and it’s history. We all agree that history shapes present. Bbnh69420 I believe had the same question I had which is what makes these queer spaces so uniquely American that other examples given lack? What makes them more unique than the examples that “that could theoretically exist without the united states”?
If with the phrase “can only exist because of the united state’s presence in its current form” you meam that these queer spaces can only continue to exist as long as the United States continues to I disagree. No more would American queer spaces vanish than would soul food if the boot of empire was removed. But both indeed would not have manifested identically in an alternate history with no USA.
So really I’m just trying to understand that difference in perspective.
i think i answered this else where in thr post: https://lemmy.ml/post/25852812/16654341
unlike the empire’s boot; these spaces are accidents or oversights and that were once allowed to flourish in the united state’s presence in it’s current form. that current form won’t be around for long since this country has been changing; it’s been growing more conservative as evidenced by blue cities and red states alike closing these places down, even before trump appeared on the scene. austin is an excellent example of this: all such spaces i described have been forced to closed down; but since this is a niche within a niche of americans, there’s little to no outcry. san francisco takes the opposite approach: these spaces were closed down by covid and not allowed to return due to ordinances from the 1980’s preventing their return. this is why soul food can continue to exist, but these spaces cannot; no one in their right mind would want to make soul food illegal. lol