The “protest vote” wasn’t very organized. There are many communities of Arab and Muslim people in the States that weren’t influenced by the small number of leftists advocating for votes against Harris. For many people, genocide is a deal breaker without outside influence of any sort.
Why are you able to excuse genocide overseas? Because at least it’s not genocide at home? Why are you allowing the party that supposes to represent your beliefs to enable any genocide?
I never ignored the ongoing genocide in Palestine. But quite clearly, if one believes that “Genocide for Palestine and genocide for LGBT folk” is an acceptable alternative, genocide is not the ‘deal-breaker’.
A vote for Harris was never a vote against genocide. There were many people who found it unconscionable to vote for anyone supporting any genocide. And you’re placing the blame on those people instead of your party that is still supporting genocide.
There were many people who found it unconscionable to vote for anyone supporting any genocide.
And so they chose not to vote; and in not voting, supporting the ascension of the most genocidal candidate.
Inaction is not absolution. People who refused to vote against the Nazis because the opposition wasn’t pure enough were complicit with the rise of the Nazis. It’s the same fucking thing here. Not voting is a choice, with consequences, same as any other choice.
And you’re placing the blame on those people instead of your party that is still supporting genocide.
“I don’t understand why you would blame the voters who chose as much genocide as possible for choosing genocide???”
Why are you allowing the party that supposes to represent your beliefs to enable any genocide?
Because our choices are limited, especially by the dominant opinions of the electorate. Support for Israel was still wildly popular despite the past minimum-20-but-arguably-up-to-75ish-years of genocide before Oct 7. That changed quicker than I expected, but was still far from complete even just within the voters of the Democratic Party, which is considerably less pro-Israel than the general population at the time of the election.
I could throw a purity fit and refuse to support the Dems for every atrocity they support. But that doesn’t improve the world. That, in fact, makes the world worse, considering that the only viable opposition supports all Dem atrocities PLUS a great number more. I could pretend that inaction is some form of absolution, but that’s utter bullshit. No one pretends that the people who saw “Both Sides” as bad were in the right in the parliamentary elections with the fucking Nazis in Weimar Germany. The SDP being anti-LGBT does not justify allowing the Nazis to win on the grounds of LGBT solidarity. Likewise, the Dems supporting Israel does not justify allowing the GOP, which is even more pro-Israel and intent on a few additional genocides of its own, to win on grounds of solidarity with Palestine.
It’s the fucking trolley problem - we don’t always have all the options we wish we had. With that in mind, you must choose what is, to you, the least repugnant option - and you must accept responsibility for that choice. Many, it would seem, want to make a choice and accept no responsibility for it. That’s not how it works. Saying “I didn’t vote” or “I voted for so-and-so who I knew never had a chance” is the same as taking your mail-in ballot, drawing smiley-faces all over it, and signing it with “I don’t mind if genocide happens here or in Palestine :)”. It is an expression of total disdain for consequences. We wield political power as voters. Voting is not some meaningless expression of personal fashion we use to define our style. We make choices, the same as representatives in a legislature make choices. And nothing we do in the political realm - abstaining or participating - is free from that.
I voted for Harris. I voted for, at best, insufficient action to stop the ongoing genocide in Palestine, and at worst, continued support at the current level for the ongoing genocide in Palestine. That’s on my soul, and always will be. But everyone who voted for Trump, or a third party candidate, or didn’t vote? They chose for the ongoing genocide in Palestine to get worse, and for people to be genocided here at home as well. They chose the option which saved no one, and killed as many people as possible. And considering that, in the end, Trump won, they have to live with that. That is on their soul, and always will be.
As long as people refuse to learn the lesson that inaction in the face of fascism is not innocence, and certainly not heroism, I intend on reminding them.
What kind of wierd world view is this? There are 210 million registered voters in the United States. Do you honestly believe that the beliefs of all of them are represented by the two relevant political parties in the United States?
Voting is pick your best option, not pick the one that is your personal Jesus.
Yes, Dems choosing to be more right wing than the trump 2016 campaign did have an effect. It did cause them to lose core support from minority groups that realized they weren’t going to be supported anymore by the dem party.
Then you admit you refused to show solidarity with LGBT folk in the US, because the candidate for protecting LGBT folk in the US showed insufficient solidarity with Palestinians?
I’m a trans person myself and voted for Harris. Do not use my people as a rhetorical cudgel against those that voted for accountability. We’ve seen after the election that Democrats have little spine is protecting trans rights. Democrats already voted to support the first anti-LGBT law in 30 years. There is anti-trans legislation in the works that will likely have substantial Democratic support behind it.
You only use minorities as a tool to wield. When those minority groups stand up and object to being thrown under the bus in the name of political expediency, you just hold up another minority group as another rhetorical shield.
Do not use my people as a rhetorical cudgel against those that voted for accountability.
I didn’t realize “accountability” was “putting a fascist in power to throw us disadvantaged groups in camps”. Rather seems like the opposite of accountability to me, but what do I know? I’m just one of those filthy mixed-race mentally ill useless eaters who’ll get thrown into the meat grinder. The REAL victims here are the people who sat on their asses while fascism came to America, and couldn’t be arsed enough to do so much as take one day out of their busy fucking lives and cast a vote for someone they didn’t like. Protecting minorities just wasn’t important enough. Feeling pure was more important.
…Jill stein did show support for Palestinians, what the fuck are you on about? So did de la Cruz. Hell even Dr West did.
Okay? None of those candidates had any chance of defending LGBT folk in the US, and LGBT folk in the US overwhelmingly voted for Harris, above and beyond what support they gave the Dems in 2016 and 2020, because they saw the writing on the wall regarding Trump.
Edit: ooh you’re one of the lgb not t guys, aren’t you?
Get better material. Trans rights are human rights.
None of those candidates had any chance of defending LGBT folk in the US
getting elected is probably one of the least effective ways to protect marginalized people. i think dr west and de la cruz are doing great work for queer people.
And neither of those idiots have a track record of ever having done shit to support their loaded promises.
You’re just believing shit because it sounds good. They’re both untested, unproven blowhards that don’t have the political clout, or legal knowledge to back up a god damned thing they “promised.”
So it’s your opinion that the protest vote against Palestinian genocide did make the difference between victory and defeat for the Trump regime?
The “protest vote” wasn’t very organized. There are many communities of Arab and Muslim people in the States that weren’t influenced by the small number of leftists advocating for votes against Harris. For many people, genocide is a deal breaker without outside influence of any sort.
Why are you able to excuse genocide overseas? Because at least it’s not genocide at home? Why are you allowing the party that supposes to represent your beliefs to enable any genocide?
Oh cool, so they voted to prevent genocide in the US?
… no?
They didn’t?
I guess genocide wasn’t such a deal breaker.
Stop using the threat of future genocide to ignore current genocide
I never ignored the ongoing genocide in Palestine. But quite clearly, if one believes that “Genocide for Palestine and genocide for LGBT folk” is an acceptable alternative, genocide is not the ‘deal-breaker’.
A vote for Harris was never a vote against genocide. There were many people who found it unconscionable to vote for anyone supporting any genocide. And you’re placing the blame on those people instead of your party that is still supporting genocide.
And so they chose not to vote; and in not voting, supporting the ascension of the most genocidal candidate.
Inaction is not absolution. People who refused to vote against the Nazis because the opposition wasn’t pure enough were complicit with the rise of the Nazis. It’s the same fucking thing here. Not voting is a choice, with consequences, same as any other choice.
“I don’t understand why you would blame the voters who chose as much genocide as possible for choosing genocide???”
Yeah, that tracks.
Will you answer this question?
Why are you allowing the party that supposes to represent your beliefs to enable any genocide?
Because our choices are limited, especially by the dominant opinions of the electorate. Support for Israel was still wildly popular despite the past minimum-20-but-arguably-up-to-75ish-years of genocide before Oct 7. That changed quicker than I expected, but was still far from complete even just within the voters of the Democratic Party, which is considerably less pro-Israel than the general population at the time of the election.
I could throw a purity fit and refuse to support the Dems for every atrocity they support. But that doesn’t improve the world. That, in fact, makes the world worse, considering that the only viable opposition supports all Dem atrocities PLUS a great number more. I could pretend that inaction is some form of absolution, but that’s utter bullshit. No one pretends that the people who saw “Both Sides” as bad were in the right in the parliamentary elections with the fucking Nazis in Weimar Germany. The SDP being anti-LGBT does not justify allowing the Nazis to win on the grounds of LGBT solidarity. Likewise, the Dems supporting Israel does not justify allowing the GOP, which is even more pro-Israel and intent on a few additional genocides of its own, to win on grounds of solidarity with Palestine.
It’s the fucking trolley problem - we don’t always have all the options we wish we had. With that in mind, you must choose what is, to you, the least repugnant option - and you must accept responsibility for that choice. Many, it would seem, want to make a choice and accept no responsibility for it. That’s not how it works. Saying “I didn’t vote” or “I voted for so-and-so who I knew never had a chance” is the same as taking your mail-in ballot, drawing smiley-faces all over it, and signing it with “I don’t mind if genocide happens here or in Palestine :)”. It is an expression of total disdain for consequences. We wield political power as voters. Voting is not some meaningless expression of personal fashion we use to define our style. We make choices, the same as representatives in a legislature make choices. And nothing we do in the political realm - abstaining or participating - is free from that.
I voted for Harris. I voted for, at best, insufficient action to stop the ongoing genocide in Palestine, and at worst, continued support at the current level for the ongoing genocide in Palestine. That’s on my soul, and always will be. But everyone who voted for Trump, or a third party candidate, or didn’t vote? They chose for the ongoing genocide in Palestine to get worse, and for people to be genocided here at home as well. They chose the option which saved no one, and killed as many people as possible. And considering that, in the end, Trump won, they have to live with that. That is on their soul, and always will be.
As long as people refuse to learn the lesson that inaction in the face of fascism is not innocence, and certainly not heroism, I intend on reminding them.
What kind of wierd world view is this? There are 210 million registered voters in the United States. Do you honestly believe that the beliefs of all of them are represented by the two relevant political parties in the United States?
Voting is pick your best option, not pick the one that is your personal Jesus.
Stop enabling genocide then.
Yes, Dems choosing to be more right wing than the trump 2016 campaign did have an effect. It did cause them to lose core support from minority groups that realized they weren’t going to be supported anymore by the dem party.
Then you admit you refused to show solidarity with LGBT folk in the US, because the candidate for protecting LGBT folk in the US showed insufficient solidarity with Palestinians?
I’m a trans person myself and voted for Harris. Do not use my people as a rhetorical cudgel against those that voted for accountability. We’ve seen after the election that Democrats have little spine is protecting trans rights. Democrats already voted to support the first anti-LGBT law in 30 years. There is anti-trans legislation in the works that will likely have substantial Democratic support behind it.
You only use minorities as a tool to wield. When those minority groups stand up and object to being thrown under the bus in the name of political expediency, you just hold up another minority group as another rhetorical shield.
I didn’t realize “accountability” was “putting a fascist in power to throw us disadvantaged groups in camps”. Rather seems like the opposite of accountability to me, but what do I know? I’m just one of those filthy mixed-race mentally ill useless eaters who’ll get thrown into the meat grinder. The REAL victims here are the people who sat on their asses while fascism came to America, and couldn’t be arsed enough to do so much as take one day out of their busy fucking lives and cast a vote for someone they didn’t like. Protecting minorities just wasn’t important enough. Feeling pure was more important.
…Jill stein did show support for Palestinians, what the fuck are you on about? So did de la Cruz. Hell even Dr West did.
Those were the only candidates showing support for trans people in the 2024 election, so no idea how you got confused.
Edit: ooh you’re one of the lgb not t guys, aren’t you?
Jill Stein is loyal to Putin/Russia and the money she fundraises from her spoiler campaigns.
Where is she now?
Russian handlers deactivated her until the next election as usual lol
Currently helping more local level greens get into office.
[citation needed]
https://www.gp.org/join_us_and_jill_stein_online_this_sunday
Let’s see those articles.
Put down the copium pipe
Okay? None of those candidates had any chance of defending LGBT folk in the US, and LGBT folk in the US overwhelmingly voted for Harris, above and beyond what support they gave the Dems in 2016 and 2020, because they saw the writing on the wall regarding Trump.
Get better material. Trans rights are human rights.
getting elected is probably one of the least effective ways to protect marginalized people. i think dr west and de la cruz are doing great work for queer people.
And neither of those idiots have a track record of ever having done shit to support their loaded promises.
You’re just believing shit because it sounds good. They’re both untested, unproven blowhards that don’t have the political clout, or legal knowledge to back up a god damned thing they “promised.”