Given how thoroughly the Tusken Raiders are narratively linked to American Indians it’s also pretty fucking weird that you’d insist on this point. How many tribes do you get to wipe out before it’s a genocide iyo?
I’d assume intention makes the difference here: Anakin was lashing out in anger at the ones immediately within reach, like a one-man pogrom, but I don’t know that he commanded an attempt to exterminate their entire kind.
Given how thoroughly the Tusken Raiders are narratively linked to American Indians it’s also pretty fucking weird that you’d insist on this point. How many tribes do you get to wipe out before it’s a genocide iyo?
I honestly wasn’t aware of that narrative link, which may be an artifact of my European cultural perception.
In any case, it wouldn’t change my stance: Massacring one tribe would be a massacre. Done out of racial hatred, it would be a hate crime. The criterion for genocide would be the scale and scope: Is your violence aimed only at a specific tribe?
Attempting to push a particular group from prosperous land has been a motivator for warfare since forever. That’s not what makes a Genocide in my opinion. A genocide is a systematic attempt to eradicate an entire people, not just displace them.
That doesn’t mean massacres or wars of displacement aren’t atrocities either, just that we don’t need to slap the label “genocide” on everything, thereby devaluing its gravity when applied to things where it actually fits (like the war of extermination on the Palestinian people).
Now, if I missed something and Anakin went on to chase down the rest of the Tusken people, that would be genocide too.
I’ve said it a couple times in Lemmy already but the thing I absolutely hate about Star Wars is that the fans don’t know shit about Star Wars
“They’re like animals, and I slaughtered them like animals.”
Bro’s straight up dropping literal dehumanization while screaming about how he killed kids for their race and he “hates them all” within a dozen very memorable lines and you quibbling simpletons can’t figure it out.
I’m not denying his hatred or crime. A massacre born from racist hatred is a pogrom, a hate crime, an atrocity. Anakin isn’t a good guy just because he only butchered one group, and I don’t think anyone is claiming otherwise.
I’m arguing whether the massacre of one group of their race constitutes genocide in terms of scale (local outburst of violence as opposed to a planet-wide persecution) and intent (revenge out of rage and hate born from topical pain as opposed to a persistent effort to eliminate an entire race).
Not every pogrom is genocide. We don’t need to reach for the most extreme terms to describe violence born from racism. In case it needs to be emphasised, Anakin committed a hate crime, incited by grief and rage, but likely fueled by preexisting prejudice.
There really is no need to stoop to insults and condescension about it either. If you have a contribution to make about the subject matter - perhaps because you think I’ve forgotten something - just contribute instead of prefacing and closing it with vitriol.
The thing I hate about Star Wars is how stuck-up and elitist some fans get. God forbid you get something wrong - if you haven’t consumed and intricately memorised every piece of canon (and “Legends”) lore, you’re trash. And because everyone gets something wrong at some point, they all suck and everyone that likes it is an idiot (except me of course, I know everything). Damn Star Wars Fans, they ruined Star Wars!
That isn’t the environment any fandom should foster. If you love something, help others love it too! If someone gets something wrong or doesn’t know something, share what you know. If someone holds a position you disagree with, talk to them and figure out where you disagree. Be part of the reason someone says “I fucking love Star Wars”. Let’s love it together.
I feel we’re arguing about definitions here, except that you’re just asserting the equivalence instead of proposing a definition that would lead to that conclusion.
I offered my distinction. What part do you disagree with?
he didn’t plan to kill them just to get his mother then flipped his shit. so how is this genocide?
genocide would be like how the US food supply is tainted with GMO horsehit and fake lab chemical ingredients that causes all kinds of slow killing ailments to the American people.
Partial genocides are still genocides.
Given how thoroughly the Tusken Raiders are narratively linked to American Indians it’s also pretty fucking weird that you’d insist on this point. How many tribes do you get to wipe out before it’s a genocide iyo?
Completely depends on how big the parts are, otherwise it’s just mass murder. Well I guess intent also plays a role.
I’d assume intention makes the difference here: Anakin was lashing out in anger at the ones immediately within reach, like a one-man pogrom, but I don’t know that he commanded an attempt to exterminate their entire kind.
I honestly wasn’t aware of that narrative link, which may be an artifact of my European cultural perception.
In any case, it wouldn’t change my stance: Massacring one tribe would be a massacre. Done out of racial hatred, it would be a hate crime. The criterion for genocide would be the scale and scope: Is your violence aimed only at a specific tribe?
Attempting to push a particular group from prosperous land has been a motivator for warfare since forever. That’s not what makes a Genocide in my opinion. A genocide is a systematic attempt to eradicate an entire people, not just displace them.
That doesn’t mean massacres or wars of displacement aren’t atrocities either, just that we don’t need to slap the label “genocide” on everything, thereby devaluing its gravity when applied to things where it actually fits (like the war of extermination on the Palestinian people).
Now, if I missed something and Anakin went on to chase down the rest of the Tusken people, that would be genocide too.
I’ve said it a couple times in Lemmy already but the thing I absolutely hate about Star Wars is that the fans don’t know shit about Star Wars
“They’re like animals, and I slaughtered them like animals.”
Bro’s straight up dropping literal dehumanization while screaming about how he killed kids for their race and he “hates them all” within a dozen very memorable lines and you quibbling simpletons can’t figure it out.
I’m not denying his hatred or crime. A massacre born from racist hatred is a pogrom, a hate crime, an atrocity. Anakin isn’t a good guy just because he only butchered one group, and I don’t think anyone is claiming otherwise.
I’m arguing whether the massacre of one group of their race constitutes genocide in terms of scale (local outburst of violence as opposed to a planet-wide persecution) and intent (revenge out of rage and hate born from topical pain as opposed to a persistent effort to eliminate an entire race).
Not every pogrom is genocide. We don’t need to reach for the most extreme terms to describe violence born from racism. In case it needs to be emphasised, Anakin committed a hate crime, incited by grief and rage, but likely fueled by preexisting prejudice.
There really is no need to stoop to insults and condescension about it either. If you have a contribution to make about the subject matter - perhaps because you think I’ve forgotten something - just contribute instead of prefacing and closing it with vitriol.
The thing I hate about Star Wars is how stuck-up and elitist some fans get. God forbid you get something wrong - if you haven’t consumed and intricately memorised every piece of canon (and “Legends”) lore, you’re trash. And because everyone gets something wrong at some point, they all suck and everyone that likes it is an idiot (except me of course, I know everything). Damn Star Wars Fans, they ruined Star Wars!
That isn’t the environment any fandom should foster. If you love something, help others love it too! If someone gets something wrong or doesn’t know something, share what you know. If someone holds a position you disagree with, talk to them and figure out where you disagree. Be part of the reason someone says “I fucking love Star Wars”. Let’s love it together.
🤡
Among so many other things, pogroms are genocides, great mind.
I feel we’re arguing about definitions here, except that you’re just asserting the equivalence instead of proposing a definition that would lead to that conclusion.
I offered my distinction. What part do you disagree with?
he didn’t plan to kill them just to get his mother then flipped his shit. so how is this genocide?
genocide would be like how the US food supply is tainted with GMO horsehit and fake lab chemical ingredients that causes all kinds of slow killing ailments to the American people.