• bdonvrA
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    4 days ago

    I don’t care how you feel about the conflict but

    NATO: Escalates by giving and allowing Ukraine to strike Russia with longer range missiles

    Russia: Retaliates

    NATO:

    • otp@sh.itjust.works
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      4 days ago

      Lol, interesting way to frame it. Let’s zoom out a bit…

      Russia: Starts it

      Ukraine: Fights back

      Russia: surprised Pikachu

      Russia: Escalates

      Ukraine’s allies: Supports Ukraine

      Russia: Arms on hips guy

    • SkyezOpen@lemmy.world
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      4 days ago

      Oh I’m sorry, I didn’t realize the rules were that the defending country had to stay on their side of the line. So Russia can invade neighbors with impunity, but striking Russian soil is just too far.

      Stop.

      • bdonvrA
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        4 days ago

        I’m confused from where you are drawing that I said that

        It’s more that NATO shouldn’t be (and isn’t really) surprised.

        I never said or implied what actions they should or shouldn’t take or anything. Where are y’all getting this?

        • SkyezOpen@lemmy.world
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          4 days ago

          You’re shifting the framing to “NATO is escalating the conflict.” Motherfucker, Russia can deescalate any time by leaving. Why is the onus on everyone else to not cross any red lines?

          • bdonvrA
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            4 days ago

            I mean it’s definitely not a statement of right or wrong to suggest that taking a new, further step is an escalation above the previous situation.

            • Coriza@lemmy.world
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              4 days ago

              I think the problem is what you consider an escalation. If someone slaps you in the face, you slapping them back is considered an escalation or proportional response? I think most would consider framing it as an escalation as a type of shifting the blame or changing the frame of events that minimize the responsibilities of the the guy that first slapped you.

            • SkyezOpen@lemmy.world
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              4 days ago

              My dude, if I come to your house and start punching you in the face and you start punching back, are you now escalating the conflict? No. We’re already fucking brawling, and I started it.

              • bdonvrA
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                4 days ago

                Sure, going from being a helpless victim to one fighting back is an escalation. Isn’t always a bad thing?

      • bdonvrA
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        4 days ago

        I don’t understand how saying NATO shouldn’t be surprised at this outcome makes my comment somehow pro-russia in any way

          • bdonvrA
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            4 days ago

            I mean it seems pretty logical to me?

            One side takes a step they so far haven’t in a war, the other responds. It’s not surprising. This isn’t a statement that’s pro- either side here.

    • Malek061@lemmy.world
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      4 days ago

      If you hit someone, dont be surprised when they hit back. Russia can always go home. They are escalating every day they stay. Ukraine needs to be more armed then maybe russia gets the message.

    • Suzune@ani.social
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      4 days ago

      That’s very naive to think they wonder about it. There is even a threat of a nuclear strike.

      What they do is to plan the next steps.

      In my opinion NATO should prepare for war.

      • bdonvrA
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        4 days ago

        That’s very naive to think they wonder about it.

        No, NATO wants escalation I understand that. This was the outcome they wanted.

    • Knoxvomica@lemmy.ca
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      4 days ago

      You’re right, I think that Nato should start sending over some soldiers to “help” out the Ukrainians, the way that the Russians have brought in North Koreans.

    • Maggoty@lemmy.world
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      4 days ago

      Retaliated.

      With the freshly made prototype.

      Sure. I’ll believe that when a Rooster wakes me up by name instead of declaring war on the sun.