Lol, as an Asian person it’s always hilarious to me that modern Russians like to think of themselves as non-western. Despite the fact that Russias expansion east was one of the largest acts of genocidal colonial expansions in human history, and they continue utilizing their asianic population as second class citizen cannon fodder.
Behold, the lemm.ee banger with some mild undertones of racism (“I’m Asian so I find this part of Russians funny and can speak on them confidently…”) and the assumption that Imperial Russia somehow transcended through the Soviet Union into the Federation. Some truly giga-lib shit I’d like to point out again that got you 4 seal-claps. Where does it mention that in World-Systems Theory?
they continue utilizing their asianic population as second class citizen cannon fodder.
The Soviet Union had some ecological disasters, that is for sure; but the conditions for Mongolians, Buryat, etc materially improved under their rule. Imperial Russia? Yeah no. There’s a reason the Bolsheviks came to power. But yeah it’s just all the same, right? Is that another thing you find “funny” about Russians? As for the Federation, no fucking shit. They’re nationalists. Why would they think of themselves non-western but draft/view eastern-territory soldiers as more expendable? Are you listening to yourself? Most of us support the Soviet Union and learned from it’s failures, support China; critically support Russia only in it’s fight against the global hegemony.
modern Russians like to think of themselves as non-western.
Where the fuck do you get this stuff? It’s a federation of multiple territories. Do you really think Moscow thinks of itself as non-western? Are you okay?
“Capitalism has grown into a world system of colonial oppression and of the financial strangulation of the overwhelming majority of the people of the world by a handful of “advanced” countries. And this “booty” is shared between two or three powerful world marauders armed to the teeth”…"who involve the whole world in their war over the sharing of their booty.”
You completely glossed over the fact that Ukraine broke two agreements on militarization and neutrality w NATO. You ignored the fact that Nazis/far-right nationalists have taken over the government entirely during that point with the aid of U.S institutions, violating the agreements in place. Separatists rise up, obviously dissatisfied with the direction of the country at the hand of right-wing nationalists who were banning the russian language (Whom a chunk of the country speaks) and banning opposition parties later on. Ukraine responds by cleansing and bombing the region entirely right on the borders of Russia right after breaking multiple agreements to which I fucking cited and gave you multiple sources on everything I am speaking right not from Davel.
It’s literally not imperialism. It’s interventionism, sure, but it’s intervening on a literal nascent fascist state proxy on their borders who broke multiple agreements already. You ignored that as well. Who is being “academically dishonest” here especially when you should know that “imperialism” isn’t when big nation fight small nation. Imperialism is better defined by the fact the United States has an economic stranglehold and hegemony on most of the third world and a military alliance with the developed nations who engage in that exploitation as well. Who has more military bases all over the world? Who controls trade? Who acts as the “World’s Police”? Who has the most incarcerated people in the world?
It’s not Russia, lmao.
By the fact that they’re fighting against that hegemony, they are being “anti-imperialist”. They aren’t seeking to become a new “core” in this instance because of what I mentioned above and in what you replied to that you ignored most of. Will they in the future? Likely, but most of us support China in that sense rather than the kinda support we hand Russia. By the way, most of us critically support Russia. We don’t think they’re actually gonna bring a “revolution” or any bullshit like that. Most of us just support the curb-stomping of nazi into the ground as always and the decay of the “core” in entirety.
America locked in this, with Israel, with China gives less pressure on exploited nations and a chance for them to break away from U.S hegemony. We are seeing this with BRICS. Liberation becomes possible and the Empire will grow weaker without territories to extract from as the nations are allowed to develop free from extraction. As for China? That would be great if they would take the “core”. No doubt they have problems, as all actually existing socialism does. I’m curious to see your criticisms of China, then.
“Lol nothing you posted would actually make me believe that is true”
You ignored 10+ sources (variety of them too; we got western media, aljazeera, grayzone, etc), two infographics (one that was showing purely the demographic split in Ukraine to back up materially what I said as the material conditions that began the outbreak/seperatists) and a personal account from someone in Russia using the good ol’ “Da Russian is just making up excuses! I’m Asian so I can speak on Russians like I’m an expert, I find them funny!” (heavily paraphrasing of course but you aren’t actually comprehending anything I’m saying or something is firing wrong up there) which makes me question your feelings on Russians as a whole.
“Sure, the little green men were totally ukranian separatist and not Igor girkin…”
Yeah, none of this happened before “little green men” were being reported on by Western media at all. Once again, proof you didn’t read what I said.
“Russia has its fair share of nationalist Bull shit too.”
Critical support. What is it? You seemingly cannot understand the concept. We don’t support their nationalist bullshit or their government but solely their anti-imperialist actions against the largest hegemony. Second time I’ve repeated this.
“Lol, cleansing? There have been multiple investigations that have proved there was more violence coming from “separatist” than ukranian.”
Burden of proof. I offered sources, citations, etc. Where is yours on this now? Seems like a very specific, easy to find study. Where is it? I offered multiple citations, I expect multiple. Giddy up.
“I see, so only the imperial core can do imperialism… Everything else is just sparkling intervention. So Germany didn’t do any imperialism when they took half of Europe because England was the hegemony of the day? Imperial Japan didn’t do imperialism because they were a peripheral country?”
No. You need to re-read what I said and definitely read some Lenin if you’re gonna have bouts with communists. You have no idea what I’m even talking about while ignoring half of it. We don’t have the same definition of “imperialism” not that trying to explain it would matter. We are in the late stage of capitalism. Colonialism and imperialism have taken on new forms. Kings and queens are dead, the church is no longer in power. There is no new “fronts” to exploit, only nations to control and extract from. The more modern history of interventions in Latin America, control of North Africa and Vietnam by the French (their actions in Africa to this day) and how long England held onto it’s colonies are examples of that.
On top of that, you also are repeatedly ignoring my point that it was indeed an intervention: see below.
“Within days of the February 2014 Euromaidan Revolution that culminated with the ouster of President Viktor Yanukovych and ushered in a firmly pro-Western government, the newly appointed head of the Security Service of Ukraine (SBU), Valentyn Nalyvaichenko, reportedly proposed a “three-way partnership” with the CIA and MI6, the UK’s foreign intelligence service. Ukrainian security officials gradually proved their value to the U.S. by feeding the CIA intelligence on Russia, including “secret documents about the Russian Navy,” leading to the establishment of CIA bases in Ukraine to coordinate activities against Russia and various training programs for Ukrainian commandos and other elite units.”
You’re literally brain-dead if you think western intervention hasn’t been going on in Ukraine before Maidan/leading up to Maidan and before even separatists and “little green men”. Not to mention the worlds leading hegemony’s intelligence agency has a fucking history of this. Literally in almost every nation. Operation Gladio, for example. Normally, there would be no proof or very little proof in declassified documents but if you’re going to ignore a C.I.A asset being placed into the new government days after it’s inception and also ignore the fact that they literally invited the intelligence apparatus in then I literally cannot help you understand a single thing I’m saying. You have three other stupid fucking idiots who agree with this stupid shit. Combine that with right-wing nationalist take-over that HISTORICALLY was the kind of organization the C.I.A funded (Contras, for example) you would have reasonable conditions for separatists to revolt. Even if they did do “more damage” why the fuck would I care when they’re fighting against a C.I.A-backed right-wing nationalist government? Like are you listening to yourself?
“I’m not defending American imperialism… Yeah, they are imperialist, but just because they are a source of human misery doesn’t mean they have an absolute monopoly of violence. It doesn’t mean there can’t be a Nazi Germany and a Japanese empire.”
They do have a monopoly on violence because America has the most military bases around the world, has the largest record of interventions/military actions (compared to the one Russia is being demonized for) and completely controls the financial levers of most of the world through the petrodollar. Russia is in Syria and Africa with small mercenary contingents/PMC groups. America has literal military bases strapped with fighters, bombers and garrisons in almost every country. Sometimes multiple. A good chunk right on the border of “domestic enemies”. You saying there “can’t be a nazi germany or japan” too is essentially graying out the scales of actual, material power these nations have. Russia isn’t nearly as big of a threat as the United States. The United States has a far larger death toll on it than Russia has. Iraq, Afghanistan, Laos, Cambodia, Vietnam, Latin American interventions; I can keep going! But yeah, we should really be vexing over Russia right now and condemning them instead of seeing Ukraine for what it actually is.
You’re regurgitating their propaganda and taking their views established by the U.S State department. There is no “critical support”. You really believe everything the U.S and Ukraine says about Russia, don’t you? I have yet to see a difference.
“Only if you completely change the understanding of imperialism to the point where you don’t have a definition that isn’t just America.”
Unironically what you’re doing as you’ve seemingly never read Lenin. You’re on a Marxist-Leninist board. Your definition of Imperialism is rooted, repeatedly by what you type, in the definitions of mid-1800s geopolitics. We use Lenin. It’s fine not to believe in it, but I can actually ignore what you say on imperialism because you aren’t even engaging with what the actual theory says. Which is something I see repeating; I will engage with you and actually talk your points down and explain my positions further. You repeatedly have gone “Nuh-uh. Nope. What sources? I don’t believe them.” in out-right rejection. Typical liberal left-com bullshit.
“By regurgitating their propaganda?”
What propaganda? Every nation has propaganda. Some of it is more true than others. Let me guess, you think China is a giant sweatshop of a gorillion billion people all slaving away to make iphone? Yeah, propaganda. Yeah, typical left-com position. Do you understand how their economy works? Their provincial system?
“Ukraine isn’t filled with a bunch of Nazi… Like any western nation, including Russia, there are reactionary idiots who hate communist and love fascist. That doesn’t mean the entire country is fascist neonazi, the fact that you think there is mind-blowing considering how many ukranians fought the Nazi.”
My person in Christ they removed Lenin statues and replaced them with Bandera. I pointed out western intervention. notfromkaliningrad pointed out how they banned communist parties and the Russian language. There are slews of pictures, from BOTH sides of Ukrainian soldiers having Nazi tattoos beyond just “Azov”. The difference between Russia and Ukraine on that part is that one group of Nazis has support from the global hegemon’s intelligence agency. The other is a PMC group that got liquidated. Sure is a difference in how they treat them; not that Russia is justified either. Once again, critical support. Something you keep tossing to the side.
"Or, it just creates more and more war because people keep supporting far right governments.
I don’t think people understand that global system theory is just theory, and a theory entirely dependent on the continuation of capitalism. If you actually believe in a hegemony as it’s written in global systems theory, then it precludes the chance a country like China will ever overthrow it with anything other than another capitalist hegemony."
Because China isn’t a capitalist country; the entire private industry is completely locked in and guarded by a literal vanguard party that controls the profit-seeking for the building of productive forces to serve national interests. Dictatorship of the proletariat. That is why their people are experiencing monumental increases in quality of life in the past 50-60 years compared to the United States and are leading in academic submissions/technological standards compared to the west as well as manufacturing. Their economy continues to grow and has been growing for years straight with only small hiccups. Do you know what Dengism is?
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Behold, the lemm.ee banger with some mild undertones of racism (“I’m Asian so I find this part of Russians funny and can speak on them confidently…”) and the assumption that Imperial Russia somehow transcended through the Soviet Union into the Federation. Some truly giga-lib shit I’d like to point out again that got you 4 seal-claps. Where does it mention that in World-Systems Theory?
The Soviet Union had some ecological disasters, that is for sure; but the conditions for Mongolians, Buryat, etc materially improved under their rule. Imperial Russia? Yeah no. There’s a reason the Bolsheviks came to power. But yeah it’s just all the same, right? Is that another thing you find “funny” about Russians? As for the Federation, no fucking shit. They’re nationalists. Why would they think of themselves non-western but draft/view eastern-territory soldiers as more expendable? Are you listening to yourself? Most of us support the Soviet Union and learned from it’s failures, support China; critically support Russia only in it’s fight against the global hegemony.
Where the fuck do you get this stuff? It’s a federation of multiple territories. Do you really think Moscow thinks of itself as non-western? Are you okay?
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“Capitalism has grown into a world system of colonial oppression and of the financial strangulation of the overwhelming majority of the people of the world by a handful of “advanced” countries. And this “booty” is shared between two or three powerful world marauders armed to the teeth”…"who involve the whole world in their war over the sharing of their booty.”
You completely glossed over the fact that Ukraine broke two agreements on militarization and neutrality w NATO. You ignored the fact that Nazis/far-right nationalists have taken over the government entirely during that point with the aid of U.S institutions, violating the agreements in place. Separatists rise up, obviously dissatisfied with the direction of the country at the hand of right-wing nationalists who were banning the russian language (Whom a chunk of the country speaks) and banning opposition parties later on. Ukraine responds by cleansing and bombing the region entirely right on the borders of Russia right after breaking multiple agreements to which I fucking cited and gave you multiple sources on everything I am speaking right not from Davel.
It’s literally not imperialism. It’s interventionism, sure, but it’s intervening on a literal nascent fascist state proxy on their borders who broke multiple agreements already. You ignored that as well. Who is being “academically dishonest” here especially when you should know that “imperialism” isn’t when big nation fight small nation. Imperialism is better defined by the fact the United States has an economic stranglehold and hegemony on most of the third world and a military alliance with the developed nations who engage in that exploitation as well. Who has more military bases all over the world? Who controls trade? Who acts as the “World’s Police”? Who has the most incarcerated people in the world?
It’s not Russia, lmao.
By the fact that they’re fighting against that hegemony, they are being “anti-imperialist”. They aren’t seeking to become a new “core” in this instance because of what I mentioned above and in what you replied to that you ignored most of. Will they in the future? Likely, but most of us support China in that sense rather than the kinda support we hand Russia. By the way, most of us critically support Russia. We don’t think they’re actually gonna bring a “revolution” or any bullshit like that. Most of us just support the curb-stomping of nazi into the ground as always and the decay of the “core” in entirety.
America locked in this, with Israel, with China gives less pressure on exploited nations and a chance for them to break away from U.S hegemony. We are seeing this with BRICS. Liberation becomes possible and the Empire will grow weaker without territories to extract from as the nations are allowed to develop free from extraction. As for China? That would be great if they would take the “core”. No doubt they have problems, as all actually existing socialism does. I’m curious to see your criticisms of China, then.
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“Lol nothing you posted would actually make me believe that is true”
You ignored 10+ sources (variety of them too; we got western media, aljazeera, grayzone, etc), two infographics (one that was showing purely the demographic split in Ukraine to back up materially what I said as the material conditions that began the outbreak/seperatists) and a personal account from someone in Russia using the good ol’ “Da Russian is just making up excuses! I’m Asian so I can speak on Russians like I’m an expert, I find them funny!” (heavily paraphrasing of course but you aren’t actually comprehending anything I’m saying or something is firing wrong up there) which makes me question your feelings on Russians as a whole.
“Sure, the little green men were totally ukranian separatist and not Igor girkin…” Yeah, none of this happened before “little green men” were being reported on by Western media at all. Once again, proof you didn’t read what I said.
“Russia has its fair share of nationalist Bull shit too.” Critical support. What is it? You seemingly cannot understand the concept. We don’t support their nationalist bullshit or their government but solely their anti-imperialist actions against the largest hegemony. Second time I’ve repeated this.
“Lol, cleansing? There have been multiple investigations that have proved there was more violence coming from “separatist” than ukranian.”
Burden of proof. I offered sources, citations, etc. Where is yours on this now? Seems like a very specific, easy to find study. Where is it? I offered multiple citations, I expect multiple. Giddy up.
“I see, so only the imperial core can do imperialism… Everything else is just sparkling intervention. So Germany didn’t do any imperialism when they took half of Europe because England was the hegemony of the day? Imperial Japan didn’t do imperialism because they were a peripheral country?”
No. You need to re-read what I said and definitely read some Lenin if you’re gonna have bouts with communists. You have no idea what I’m even talking about while ignoring half of it. We don’t have the same definition of “imperialism” not that trying to explain it would matter. We are in the late stage of capitalism. Colonialism and imperialism have taken on new forms. Kings and queens are dead, the church is no longer in power. There is no new “fronts” to exploit, only nations to control and extract from. The more modern history of interventions in Latin America, control of North Africa and Vietnam by the French (their actions in Africa to this day) and how long England held onto it’s colonies are examples of that.
On top of that, you also are repeatedly ignoring my point that it was indeed an intervention: see below.
https://responsiblestatecraft.org/cia-ukraine-russia cia.gov/readingroom/docs/AERODYNAMIC VOL. 1_0113.pdf
“Within days of the February 2014 Euromaidan Revolution that culminated with the ouster of President Viktor Yanukovych and ushered in a firmly pro-Western government, the newly appointed head of the Security Service of Ukraine (SBU), Valentyn Nalyvaichenko, reportedly proposed a “three-way partnership” with the CIA and MI6, the UK’s foreign intelligence service. Ukrainian security officials gradually proved their value to the U.S. by feeding the CIA intelligence on Russia, including “secret documents about the Russian Navy,” leading to the establishment of CIA bases in Ukraine to coordinate activities against Russia and various training programs for Ukrainian commandos and other elite units.”
You’re literally brain-dead if you think western intervention hasn’t been going on in Ukraine before Maidan/leading up to Maidan and before even separatists and “little green men”. Not to mention the worlds leading hegemony’s intelligence agency has a fucking history of this. Literally in almost every nation. Operation Gladio, for example. Normally, there would be no proof or very little proof in declassified documents but if you’re going to ignore a C.I.A asset being placed into the new government days after it’s inception and also ignore the fact that they literally invited the intelligence apparatus in then I literally cannot help you understand a single thing I’m saying. You have three other stupid fucking idiots who agree with this stupid shit. Combine that with right-wing nationalist take-over that HISTORICALLY was the kind of organization the C.I.A funded (Contras, for example) you would have reasonable conditions for separatists to revolt. Even if they did do “more damage” why the fuck would I care when they’re fighting against a C.I.A-backed right-wing nationalist government? Like are you listening to yourself?
“I’m not defending American imperialism… Yeah, they are imperialist, but just because they are a source of human misery doesn’t mean they have an absolute monopoly of violence. It doesn’t mean there can’t be a Nazi Germany and a Japanese empire.”
They do have a monopoly on violence because America has the most military bases around the world, has the largest record of interventions/military actions (compared to the one Russia is being demonized for) and completely controls the financial levers of most of the world through the petrodollar. Russia is in Syria and Africa with small mercenary contingents/PMC groups. America has literal military bases strapped with fighters, bombers and garrisons in almost every country. Sometimes multiple. A good chunk right on the border of “domestic enemies”. You saying there “can’t be a nazi germany or japan” too is essentially graying out the scales of actual, material power these nations have. Russia isn’t nearly as big of a threat as the United States. The United States has a far larger death toll on it than Russia has. Iraq, Afghanistan, Laos, Cambodia, Vietnam, Latin American interventions; I can keep going! But yeah, we should really be vexing over Russia right now and condemning them instead of seeing Ukraine for what it actually is.
You’re regurgitating their propaganda and taking their views established by the U.S State department. There is no “critical support”. You really believe everything the U.S and Ukraine says about Russia, don’t you? I have yet to see a difference.
“Only if you completely change the understanding of imperialism to the point where you don’t have a definition that isn’t just America.”
Unironically what you’re doing as you’ve seemingly never read Lenin. You’re on a Marxist-Leninist board. Your definition of Imperialism is rooted, repeatedly by what you type, in the definitions of mid-1800s geopolitics. We use Lenin. It’s fine not to believe in it, but I can actually ignore what you say on imperialism because you aren’t even engaging with what the actual theory says. Which is something I see repeating; I will engage with you and actually talk your points down and explain my positions further. You repeatedly have gone “Nuh-uh. Nope. What sources? I don’t believe them.” in out-right rejection. Typical liberal left-com bullshit.
“By regurgitating their propaganda?”
What propaganda? Every nation has propaganda. Some of it is more true than others. Let me guess, you think China is a giant sweatshop of a gorillion billion people all slaving away to make iphone? Yeah, propaganda. Yeah, typical left-com position. Do you understand how their economy works? Their provincial system?
“Ukraine isn’t filled with a bunch of Nazi… Like any western nation, including Russia, there are reactionary idiots who hate communist and love fascist. That doesn’t mean the entire country is fascist neonazi, the fact that you think there is mind-blowing considering how many ukranians fought the Nazi.”
My person in Christ they removed Lenin statues and replaced them with Bandera. I pointed out western intervention. notfromkaliningrad pointed out how they banned communist parties and the Russian language. There are slews of pictures, from BOTH sides of Ukrainian soldiers having Nazi tattoos beyond just “Azov”. The difference between Russia and Ukraine on that part is that one group of Nazis has support from the global hegemon’s intelligence agency. The other is a PMC group that got liquidated. Sure is a difference in how they treat them; not that Russia is justified either. Once again, critical support. Something you keep tossing to the side.
"Or, it just creates more and more war because people keep supporting far right governments.
I don’t think people understand that global system theory is just theory, and a theory entirely dependent on the continuation of capitalism. If you actually believe in a hegemony as it’s written in global systems theory, then it precludes the chance a country like China will ever overthrow it with anything other than another capitalist hegemony."
Because China isn’t a capitalist country; the entire private industry is completely locked in and guarded by a literal vanguard party that controls the profit-seeking for the building of productive forces to serve national interests. Dictatorship of the proletariat. That is why their people are experiencing monumental increases in quality of life in the past 50-60 years compared to the United States and are leading in academic submissions/technological standards compared to the west as well as manufacturing. Their economy continues to grow and has been growing for years straight with only small hiccups. Do you know what Dengism is?
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You’re a fucking idiot.