Inspired by some of the discussion in this thread. I don’t think it’s appropriate place for that discussion there, but hey why not have a separate thread for it

If I think religion is not good in general, am I Reddit and cringe and basically Richard Dawkins?

  • boboblaw [he/him, they/them]@hexbear.netEnglish
    2·
    23 days ago

    I think we largely agree.

    My issue with the “militant atheism” (not meant pejoratively) is just when it’s directed towards the marginalized or countries of the global south. I have no problem with implenting state atheism in the wake of the revolution. Even on reddit, it was fine when it was directed at Christian fundamentalists in America, who wield substantial power. There was a sinister rhetorical shift with the reddit crowd and now it’s just Nazi shit.

    and there’s probably a reason why the current flavors of Christianity rose to dominance while the harder-to-corral gnostics were stamped out

    I suspect the “gnostics” were much closer to the original ideas than the Nicaeans were. Also Jesus gives me some real apocalyptic cult vibes.

    The idea that religion is too entrenched in the Global South to be deposed has a whiff of paternalism and glosses over the secular and indigenous religious movements that have had to struggle against the dominant, colonially-imposed religion.

    I kinda assumed things like indigenous religions would be included in the category of religion but I guess it’s a good idea to make a distinction between organized religion centered on a strict institution like the Roman Catholic Church and disorganized (?) religion. I am mainly just acquainted with one form of European “paganism” and I don’t really know much about pre-christian religion in general.

    The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is the demand for their real happiness

    Agreed. I apologize if I’ve been overly combative. I’ve been seeing some surprisingly islamaphobic takes lately and may have overreacted.

    I’m not even at all religious, and was myself one of those fedoralords. I just can’t help but side with the underdog lol (it’s why I side with the gnostics).

    • BodyBySisyphus [he/him]@hexbear.netEnglish
      1·
      23 days ago

      I agree that we agree. I also started out as a fedoralord so you have my sympathies, haha. I’ve observed a small but persistent tendency to fedorajacket on here so it’s made me a little defensive on the topic, so I also apologize if I’ve been combative. I’ve been slowly drifting away from online atheist spaces so I might have missed some of the shift (although I was around for Elevatorgate and the conservative/progressive schism, so it’s not like I’ve been totally unaware. Unfortunately it seems like the progressive voices in the movement are getting somewhat problematic, but that might just be my own leftward shift). I think there’s still a major need for cultural projects and gathering spaces that don’t rely on religion as a scaffolding but it seems like they’ve been difficult to make material outside of a few conferences and I’m not much of a conference-goer.

      I suspect the “gnostics” were much closer to the original ideas than the Nicaeans were. Also Jesus gives me some real apocalyptic cult vibes.
      Gnostic Christianity had some interesting ideas for sure. I think they were probably oddballs from the beginning, but I won’t claim any particularly strong knowledge on the subject.

      I kinda assumed things like indigenous religions would be included in the category of religion but I guess it’s a good idea to make a distinction between organized religion centered on a strict institution like the Roman Catholic Church and disorganized (?) religion. I am mainly just acquainted with one form of European “paganism” and I don’t really know much about pre-christian religion in general.

      I have a bit of an underdog bias here, too. I don’t think there’s anything particularly special about indigenous belief systems but their persistence does illustrate that the Global South isn’t monolithic in its belief systems and there have been strong movements to preserve cultures and belief systems in the face of persecution that I think (or at least hope) has resulted in more benign manifestations of belief than their culturally dominant counterparts. I was a major archaeology nerd when I was a kid so I knew about all the Egyptian deities and read a bunch of folklore. They all have their skeletons, but I think we can appreciate their contributions to cultural richness when we’ve reached the point where we can view them as fictions and lenses through which the world was shaped and understood.