- cross-posted to:
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- cross-posted to:
- [email protected]
cross-posted from: https://lemm.ee/post/44088448
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Aren’t you afraid you will need to change the (ICE) motor? Those are costly and tend to fail more often than batteries, you know?
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Most people don’t have the time or knowledge to swap a car engine tho? That’s a huge cost factor in this equation.
Yeah, some of us have skills others don’t. You’d not want to ride a car where I’ve swapped the engine, I’ll tell you that.
My comment is, however, a paraphrase on the two most common questions regarding EVs. From people who doesn’t, unlike you, know how to change a transmission. If ICE cars are as unreliable compared to EVs as alluded to in the article, then EVs should be considered the safe and reliable option…
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You seem niche.
Battery is easy to replace, I think. They’re soft packages now. Turn on the vehicle and make sure it is operating. Do not turn off the car. Then, just slide under the car, puncture a hole in the battery and use a catch can to get all the battery juice. It may be too spicy so don’t drink it, I think. Don’t let it get in your eyes, but if it does, lemon juice in the eyes for 15 minutes will do the trick. Then water your eyes and clean with a clean towel.
Once it’s done draining, tape the hole shut (I recommend brand name gaffer tape or flex seal). Then flip up to the top of the car and puncture a new hole in the top of the battery. Fill it with new battery juice if you have enough containers, else it’s fine to just drop as many AA batteries as you can down the hole and try to fill it up. You may need to get D batteries also in case you don’t have enough AA batteries since D batteries are bigger. I wouldn’t recommend trying to shove a car battery from an ICE car in there, it wouldn’t fit in the hole for one thing and then you’d have to make a bigger hole. Once done, tape that sucker up. Then turn off the vehicle. Easy 8 hour job that you can do in… maybe like 8 hours. It’s normal for it to clang around and sound like shit for the first 7 years, but eventually the juices will melt the housings for all the AA and D batteries you shoved in there and then it will be liquid again by the time you’re ready to replace it.
/s
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That didn’t stop Nissan to conclude that the batteries lasted twice as long as the rest of the car. The number of (newish# cars taken out of traffic each year is higher than we expect.
I’ve got a bag of potatoes in my cupboard that will outlast a Renault tho
Funny. I’ve been driving Renault pretty much my entire life, starting with a then 16 year old Renault 19. Which lasted until I totalled it in a one-sided accident 4 years later (misjudged the distance to a fence)
Only issue I ever had with that car was a broken drive shaft. And that was the worst thing that I’ve ever encountered with Renault cars.
If you’ve been driving old Renaults your whole life I absolutely 100000 percent guaran-fuckin-tee that’s not the only problem you’ve had
Source - multiple Renault owner over the decades
Nope, that’s been seriously the only problem I’ve ever had with Renaults. Maybe I’ve been very lucky. But with my Clio previously and now my Megane that I’ve had for five years now, I haven’t had a single issue. *knocks on wood*
Ive got an old penske moving truck. Its a mac with a renault engine and transmission and we’ve had since the mid 90’s. It is bulletproof. My only complaint is you have to double clutch to shift. I equally hate and love that old piece of shit. It will never die.
IDK much about Renault’s, or cars for that matter, but isn’t renault one of the badges which is really just a badge now?
My grandfather swore by renaults. They were expensive because they were imported from France (to Australia).
Now, they’re one of the cheapest cars on the road because they’re manufactured in Korea. They have terrible resale value because rightly or wrongly, they’re perceived to be very poor quality.
What I mean to say is, does renault the company really make cars, or do they just license their badge to whoever can make the cheapest Megane? I honestly don’t know but that’s the impression I get.
It’s definitely not a rebadge car company. I highly doubt a rebadger would have been able to win Car of the Year with the Scenic this year. I believe the Clio, Megane and the Scenic cars are produced in Romania.
I didn’t say they were a rebadge car company. Just pointing out that if you buy a Koleos in Australia, it will have been manufactured in Korea.
That’s odd as the insurance costs for electric vehicles keep going up. A large chuck of which is the cost for repair or the likelihood of minor damage (e.g battery pack) resulting in a write off.
https://www.ft.com/content/9a353ff6-ce86-4c53-b736-a1f24fdabe80
So in a perfect world where the EV works perfectly all it’s life then they probably will.
However in a world with other drivers and faults that even Renault can’t repair in their own cars resulting in write-offs (can’t find the article on that one) then we aren’t there yet.
Not anti electric vehicles just this statement at this moment is false.
You’re comparing two different scenarios. Let’s say you have two cups, one is made out of paper and the other is made of glass. They’re 6 feet off a concrete patio. Wind isn’t an issue.
Let them sit forever, and the paper one will disintegrate long before the glass does. Tip them over, and the glass one will shatter.
What on earth are you talking about?
Part of the car ownership and life is driving and using it.
If neither of them was driven or used then ICE still wins. What do you think happens to batteries if you let them sit and completely discharge?
So sitting in a garage unused = expressive electric brick. For ICE that’s a car that can be restored in some way
Using them on the roads and getting damage to the battery pack = a write off for an electric car. The level of damage needed to write off an ICE car is much higher. They’re much more repairable.
Yes theoretically an EV should outlast an ICE but in the real world they won’t at the moment.
This is backed by the much higher insurance costs for EVs.
I didn’t mean “sitting in a garage not getting used”, I meant “getting used, but not getting in an unpredictable accident”
Accidents are an additional variable outside of what the original article is talking about
Ah so you’re still talking about some hypothetical situation where EVs get used but don’t have to deal with real world driving issues.
Yes in that very specific hypothetical situation an EV may outlast an ICE. However the ICE is getting no damage either in this world. So who can say.
However Renault saying they will last longer than ICE because the batteries aren’t aging as badly as they thought is still completely untrue. Far more issues with long term EV ownership than just battery age.
When we have some 20 year plus EVs with hundreds of thousands of miles on them still driving around then maybe that will be true.
Far more issues with long term EV ownership than just battery age
Would you care to elaborate and show a reasonably credible source backing up whatever you think is such a big problem?
Ah so now it’s elaboration and credible sources.
I’m already one up on this with an article from the FT about insurance costs being higher due to the increased likelihood of an electric car write off.
How about some actual evidence they’re more reliable? Other than your bizarre hypothetical arguments.
Here’s a couple just off the top of my head that I can’t be bothered to get links for.
Tied to the dealer. There’s very few independent EV garages. 95% of the time you’ll have to take the price for any repair they offer you. You can’t shop around.
Complexity. Although they often use the “one moving part” argument with all the extra infrastructure for charging etc they can have very bespoke electric parts. Which means no simple of the shelf pattern parts that are as good for much less. Dealer parts only.
Delay in these parts. There just isn’t enough of a parts infrastructure at the moment. This can even cover simple things like lights or trim.
Not enough technicians.
Ah so now it’s elaboration and credible sources.
Uh, yeah? If you’re going to make a vague claim without evidence it’s fair to ask for details and some assurance that you’re not making things up
I’m already one up on this with an article from the FT about insurance costs being higher due to the increased likelihood of an electric car write off.
How about some actual evidence they’re more reliable? Other than your bizarre hypothetical arguments.
Again, you’re talking about fragility - something being easy to break when acted on by an external thing. Reliability is about a car breaking down on its own. Something can be fragile, unreliable, both, or neither.
Tied to the dealer. There’s very few independent EV garages. 95% of the time you’ll have to take the price for any repair they offer you. You can’t shop around.
Still has nothing to do with the likelihood of a car breaking down with normal use - in fact, you’re kind of proving my point because if they did break down all the time, maybe you’d see EV shops opening up? Or existing shops branching out? Not sure why you think they’d refuse the business opportunity
Complexity. Although they often use the “one moving part” argument with all the extra infrastructure for charging etc they can have very bespoke electric parts. Which means no simple of the shelf pattern parts that are as good for much less. Dealer parts only.
Delay in these parts. There just isn’t enough of a parts infrastructure at the moment. This can even cover simple things like lights or trim.
Not enough technicians.
Again, NONE of this has anything to do with the likelihood of a car breaking down. You’re predicting (maybe accurately, maybe not) what would happen if a breakdown were to happen. And your points aren’t really inherent to electric vehicles as much as they are to less-common ones. Much of what you said could apply to a kei truck brought in from Japan, a decades-old car, a supercar, or a car you just don’t see on the road as often like a Smart car or Mini Cooper.
Recall the decades it took to create vehicles that could be sold (fueled, serviced, places that didn’t even have fucking roads) when we transitioned from horses to ICE.
It’s a transition period, we’re in the early days, of course there aren’t enough technicians or knowledge about long term use and abuse on these new systems; it doesn’t mean we should continue to embrace millions of tiny explosions to propel us down the road, emitting tons of CO2 and other pollutants.
You don’t look at the problem and think: oh this is gonna take time and effort, best to just die in our own effluence instead.
All of your experience, all of the expertise passed down to you and taught was the end of a very, very long tail. You only see one future because of that.
An ICE vehicle left in a garage when petrol in it will have significant issues after a time. The fuel will oxidize and turn to varnish, ruining the fuel pump and valves. Repair can be quite expensive, depending on how thoroughly gummed up things get.
Yes it will but it will always be significantly cheaper to repair. Since 40% of the cost of an electric car is the battery even minor damage to those means that repair is just not viable.
Nice fantasy you’ve got there. Funny how you specifically call out ‘no wind’. While the poster you’re deriding isn’t making up fantasy scenarios and is going by real world actual implications. Are people buying their cars to hide them in garages and never use them.
My point is, something can be more durable but also more fragile. The original article was talking about the durability, and the original commenter couldn’t comprehend that because of an entirely different variable that was never part of the original point.
