definitely not the real reason for a project like this to exist. Python package management can be nightmarish at times depending on what you’re doing. between barebones requirements.txt, Poetry, and the different condas there’s a ton of fragmentation, and none of them do everything you’d want in an ideal way. above and beyond speed, i think uv is another attempt at it. but it could just be another classic xkcd moment where now there’s just another standard to deal with
uv is a drop-in replacement for pip. There’s no extra standard. It’s pareto better. Honestly the Python community would do the world a favour if the deprecated pip and adopted uv as the official tool, but you can guess how likely that is…
as you might have guessed i haven’t really tried it, but i have been reading about it. that said i have used “drop in replacement” tools like this (we use pnpm at work), and a drop in replacement is not without quirks. they wouldn’t have made a different tool altogether if it was really a 1:1 replacement. just because the commands are the same doesn’t mean it behaves the same. i.e. i doubt one person on the team could be using uv while everyone else sticks to pip
they wouldn’t have made a different tool altogether if it was really a 1:1 replacement
Why not? It’s 10x faster.
I think it might have some other new features but you don’t need to use those.
i doubt one person on the team could be using uv while everyone else sticks to pip
This is exactly what we do at work. There’s no way I could convince everyone to switch to uv so I just switch between them based on an environment variable.
It even supports random stuff like pip install --config-settings editable_mode=compat --editable foo which is required for static tooling to work (e.g. Pyright).
Yes. For the project I work on pip install takes about 60 seconds and replacing it with uv reduces that to about 7 seconds. That’s a very significant improvement. Much less annoying interactively and in CI we do this multiple times so it saves a significant chunk of time.
I dunno maybe once a week or so? We don’t actually have a system that detects if your pip install is out of sync with pyproject.toml yet so I run it occasionally just to make sure.
And it runs in CI around a dozen times for each PR. Yeah not ideal but there are goodish reasons which I can explain if you want.
Python package management, especially at scale is infuriating. At work we use python microservices in docker containers and it infuriates me trying to update the one our team is responsible for.
I always like to rant that python 3rd party package management tools are a mistake. We should’ve gone for an “as simple as possible” setup instead of all this.
So I’m sceptical of UV on principle since it’s yet another 3rd party package manager but if it can do all of this and not be a nightmare I’ll be ok with it.
I think the main focus is around building out the tool chain - I would think being fast is just a side benefit and the main benefit is being written as the same language as what they want to use for the rest of “cargo”
Is that a real problem? I’ve never considered that a python package manager should be or could be faster.
To be fair, I don’t use python professionally.
definitely not the real reason for a project like this to exist. Python package management can be nightmarish at times depending on what you’re doing. between barebones
requirements.txt, Poetry, and the differentcondas there’s a ton of fragmentation, and none of them do everything you’d want in an ideal way. above and beyond speed, i thinkuvis another attempt at it. but it could just be another classic xkcd moment where now there’s just another standard to deal withuvis a drop-in replacement forpip. There’s no extra standard. It’s pareto better. Honestly the Python community would do the world a favour if the deprecated pip and adopted uv as the official tool, but you can guess how likely that is…as you might have guessed i haven’t really tried it, but i have been reading about it. that said i have used “drop in replacement” tools like this (we use
pnpmat work), and a drop in replacement is not without quirks. they wouldn’t have made a different tool altogether if it was really a 1:1 replacement. just because the commands are the same doesn’t mean it behaves the same. i.e. i doubt one person on the team could be usinguvwhile everyone else sticks topipWhy not? It’s 10x faster.
I think it might have some other new features but you don’t need to use those.
This is exactly what we do at work. There’s no way I could convince everyone to switch to
uvso I just switch between them based on an environment variable.It even supports random stuff like
pip install --config-settings editable_mode=compat --editable foowhich is required for static tooling to work (e.g. Pyright).Yes. For the project I work on
pip installtakes about 60 seconds and replacing it withuvreduces that to about 7 seconds. That’s a very significant improvement. Much less annoying interactively and in CI we do this multiple times so it saves a significant chunk of time.Just out of curiosity, how often do you have to run
pip install?I dunno maybe once a week or so? We don’t actually have a system that detects if your
pip installis out of sync withpyproject.tomlyet so I run it occasionally just to make sure.And it runs in CI around a dozen times for each PR. Yeah not ideal but there are goodish reasons which I can explain if you want.
No, that makes perfect sense. Thank you for explaining.
I like hearing about other people’s environments, because it gives perspective.
The performance is just a “nice to have”.
Python package management, especially at scale is infuriating. At work we use python microservices in docker containers and it infuriates me trying to update the one our team is responsible for.
I always like to rant that python 3rd party package management tools are a mistake. We should’ve gone for an “as simple as possible” setup instead of all this.
So I’m sceptical of UV on principle since it’s yet another 3rd party package manager but if it can do all of this and not be a nightmare I’ll be ok with it.
I think the main focus is around building out the tool chain - I would think being fast is just a side benefit and the main benefit is being written as the same language as what they want to use for the rest of “cargo”