The UK has dropped out of the top ten global manufacturing nations for the first time, as reported by Make UK. Discover the factors behind this shift and the urgent call for a long-term industrial strategy to revitalise the sector.
Look, the obvious explanation here is that Russian propagandists have infiltrated UK’s leading business magazine, spreading blatant misinformation about the state of the UK economy. It’s absurd to think that the brilliant European strategy of cutting themselves from one of the largest commodity exporters could possibly have caused such a decline in industrial output.
No idea, i meant this one, it’s even adressed to you so i will copy it so you can see:
Freagle! Good to see you.
Yeah, Russia’s fuckin cleaning up. They’re the biggest country on Earth and they’re 12th on the chart. They’re trying to invade their neighbor that they’re 28 times bigger than, and they’re stuck on the border after 2 years. You know, like winners do.
Now that Ukraine got their aid package, and the rest of the world + Ukraine has had enough of a wake up call that the US is not necessarily a reliable partner, I think it’s highly unlikely that Russia will be able to do any better than a stalemate and peace agreement keeping some of the stuff they already stole. They may do worse than that (particularly if Trump doesn’t win). They also seem very shocked and aggrieved that people are now allowed to attack inside their borders, as if that is cheating.
IDK why you keep cherry picking Germany when it is such a small part of the overall aid-for-Ukraine picture (and not really doing badly – democratic countries tend to pick on small or moderate issues and write about them as big deals, of course, but in the grand scheme of things it’s nowhere near the types of problems Russia is having), or on the UK when Brexit is very clearly the source of their problems. If you wanted to celebrate Russian victories, I think celebrating Russia’s influence operations getting Trump and Brexit in place would be a lot more sensible than would holding up the Ukraine war and their capacity with industrial production. But IDK; you do you.
What’s the oldest tank Russia is fielding in Ukraine? Just in your understanding. And why?
And another one, where they suggest lemmygrad… block you? Lmao a caleidoscope of bizarre as usual
Can someone tell Freagle to try joining an instance that isn’t going to try to deny them their ability to talk with who they want to?
(Or, I guess, it’s on brand if they like USSR / Russia; maybe they should be happy about their overlords shielding them from incorrect ideas so they won’t get confused or disobedient.)
If someone wants to relay the message: The block is not on my end. I’ve never done any kind of block, but there are certain instances (lemmygrad, hexbear, and hilariouschaos) that never seem to be able to talk with me without issues. Lemmygrad I used to be able to, so maybe they created something on their end, but it wasn’t me.
@[email protected] Thanks for this. Sucks you got banned by Lemmygrad. I don’t necessarily blame them, though.
Anyway, I guess you need a refresher on the debate we were having. My position was that the West was deindustrializing and losing economic ground while Russia was growing its industrial base and gaining economic ground. I provided a bunch of sources about German deindustrialization and UK losing steel production and you countered with none of that was important and also Russia was having trouble maintaining their Boeings while under sanctions.
I at-ed you because here we have MORE evidence of deindustrialization of Western Europe and MORE evidence that Russia’s economy is growing and your response is: about aid packages to Ukraine.
What’s the oldest tank Russia is fielding in Ukraine? Just in your understanding. And why?
Russia appears to be fielding T-54s and T-55s which are over 50 years old. Why? Because they have no reason to field more advanced systems against Ukraine because Ukraine hasn’t reached a threat level that requires more advanced systems, and because 50-year-old equipment will eventually just fail from age, like the USA’s Minuteman missile system. It’s better to use old equipment, get rid of it, while still making tactical and strategic gains because it reduces the total cost of the conflict for Russia, it streamlines their supply chains and maintenance once those old systems are gone, and it doesn’t present their enemies with any new battlefield intelligence because everything the West needs to know about those systems were already known.
I was totally unaware until today that I was banned. It’s not bothering me; I think I unsubscribed from all that stuff and most of the lemmy.ml stuff a while back. You’ll need to @ me on every message, otherwise I don’t see them, I think.
Anyway, I guess you need a refresher on the debate we were having. My position was that the West was deindustrializing and losing economic ground while Russia was growing its industrial base and gaining economic ground. I provided a bunch of sources about German deindustrialization and UK losing steel production and you countered with none of that was important
Correct. Or more specifically, that selecting some isolated pieces of the pie and then pretending they form the whole picture, without even attempting to analyze the question “how much of the picture do these things I’m talking about form?”, is misleading and silly.
I think I talked about this before, but you don’t want to accept it: To me the whole context is relevant. I think last time you explicitly rejected the idea of looking at the whole context and just said you wanted to build narratives out of individual data points, so “Russia going up + Germany going down” = “Russia can outspend the West” as if the pieces that make up statement A automatically connect into conclusion B. To me that is not a good way to figure out the world, but it’s up to you, man.
Russia’s been expanding its domestic industrial production ever since about April of 2023, sustaining a growth rate of roughly 5% per year ever since then. Hooray! That is because they cannot import a lot of the things they need, and so they have to produce them at home. To me, that’s not really winning. It’s just necessity – you’re picking like the one metric that’s going to show backwards from how well Russia’s doing, as compared with the countries that can trade with other countries and just have them do the work and then buy the finished products. I mean, it’s impressive. I do think Russia’s economy is still doing surprisingly well under the sanctions. But I think that’s more an effect of what happens when you spend a bunch of money on domestic industry (again – because they have more or less no choice), and the stimulating impact that that has on everything, and some unexpected cleverness dodging around the sanctions, than some kind of master plan.
The US can already outproduce Russia 10 to 1, without needing the EU or any of Ukraine’s domestic wartime economy. Russia will have to sustain that 5% growth for 47 more years before they can outspend the US (and then continue it for some similar length of time before they can outspend the EU plus the US). In terms of pure materiel, they’re fighting like one distracted pinky finger of the US right now, and not really doing all that well. The US has weaknesses, but we’re not going to run out of stuff to fight the war with. Stuff is our whole thing. A shortage of stuff isn’t the US’s problem.
(Actually with PPP it would only by 32 more years, I guess)
and also Russia was having trouble maintaining their Boeings while under sanctions.
I mean the dig at Boeing is fair I guess. 🙂 IDK dude, if you want to tell me a system to improve the West’s whole Kafka capitalism so that the US won’t have to suffer under the Boeings of the world, and I can be confident that the plane I’m flying on won’t suddenly fall apart because someone wanted to squeeze a little more into their quarterly bonus, I’m all ears. I’m not trying to be ignorant about the problems of the West. I’m just saying that if your solution is to get us on board with how Russia’s aviation industry is, then I’m gonna get on the 737 and cross my fingers.
Russia appears to be fielding T-54s and T-55s which are over 50 years old. Why? Because they have no reason to field more advanced systems
Suuuuurre. Let me ask you: How long should the front line stay stalled at 100 km from the border before you acknowledge that the war isn’t going to plan?
If you told me a lot of the West DGAF, and is fine with just spending Ukrainian lives in their hopelessly mad scramble to defend their country against your boys’ invasion, without giving them enough materiel or approval to fight back in a way that will actually let them win, and that that’s real fucked up, I could agree with that. Like I say I’m not trying to be ignorant about it. But IDK how you can claim that everything in Ukraine is going to plan and sending out 50-year-old tanks to get blown up half an hour from the Russian border before they accomplish anything was like totally exactly what they wanted to have happen, and that’s how you can tell that Russia’s industrial economy is winning.
No, they are still spreading nonsense, this time lying about the Arabic language. The nerves of someone who doesn’t speak Arabic trying to teach me a native what words mean in Arabic. Why do liberals argue about something they know nothing about with absolute certainty?
Look, the obvious explanation here is that Russian propagandists have infiltrated UK’s leading business magazine, spreading blatant misinformation about the state of the UK economy. It’s absurd to think that the brilliant European strategy of cutting themselves from one of the largest commodity exporters could possibly have caused such a decline in industrial output.
Sadly it looks like mozz may have deleted their account
I’m sure they have many more.
EDIT: i’ve seen their post below. It’s like orbiting meme compilation.
Any idea why I can’t see their comments when I am logged in? Is that a result of them blocking me personally or is it their instance blocking me?
Might be because they are on mastadon
Nah. I used to see their comments and now when I view their profile all their comments count is zero and their list of comments all say “removed”
No idea, i meant this one, it’s even adressed to you so i will copy it so you can see:
And another one, where they suggest lemmygrad… block you? Lmao a caleidoscope of bizarre as usual
@[email protected] Thanks for this. Sucks you got banned by Lemmygrad. I don’t necessarily blame them, though.
Anyway, I guess you need a refresher on the debate we were having. My position was that the West was deindustrializing and losing economic ground while Russia was growing its industrial base and gaining economic ground. I provided a bunch of sources about German deindustrialization and UK losing steel production and you countered with none of that was important and also Russia was having trouble maintaining their Boeings while under sanctions.
I at-ed you because here we have MORE evidence of deindustrialization of Western Europe and MORE evidence that Russia’s economy is growing and your response is: about aid packages to Ukraine.
Russia appears to be fielding T-54s and T-55s which are over 50 years old. Why? Because they have no reason to field more advanced systems against Ukraine because Ukraine hasn’t reached a threat level that requires more advanced systems, and because 50-year-old equipment will eventually just fail from age, like the USA’s Minuteman missile system. It’s better to use old equipment, get rid of it, while still making tactical and strategic gains because it reduces the total cost of the conflict for Russia, it streamlines their supply chains and maintenance once those old systems are gone, and it doesn’t present their enemies with any new battlefield intelligence because everything the West needs to know about those systems were already known.
I was totally unaware until today that I was banned. It’s not bothering me; I think I unsubscribed from all that stuff and most of the lemmy.ml stuff a while back. You’ll need to @ me on every message, otherwise I don’t see them, I think.
Correct. Or more specifically, that selecting some isolated pieces of the pie and then pretending they form the whole picture, without even attempting to analyze the question “how much of the picture do these things I’m talking about form?”, is misleading and silly.
I think I talked about this before, but you don’t want to accept it: To me the whole context is relevant. I think last time you explicitly rejected the idea of looking at the whole context and just said you wanted to build narratives out of individual data points, so “Russia going up + Germany going down” = “Russia can outspend the West” as if the pieces that make up statement A automatically connect into conclusion B. To me that is not a good way to figure out the world, but it’s up to you, man.
Russia’s been expanding its domestic industrial production ever since about April of 2023, sustaining a growth rate of roughly 5% per year ever since then. Hooray! That is because they cannot import a lot of the things they need, and so they have to produce them at home. To me, that’s not really winning. It’s just necessity – you’re picking like the one metric that’s going to show backwards from how well Russia’s doing, as compared with the countries that can trade with other countries and just have them do the work and then buy the finished products. I mean, it’s impressive. I do think Russia’s economy is still doing surprisingly well under the sanctions. But I think that’s more an effect of what happens when you spend a bunch of money on domestic industry (again – because they have more or less no choice), and the stimulating impact that that has on everything, and some unexpected cleverness dodging around the sanctions, than some kind of master plan.
The US can already outproduce Russia 10 to 1, without needing the EU or any of Ukraine’s domestic wartime economy. Russia will have to sustain that 5% growth for 47 more years before they can outspend the US (and then continue it for some similar length of time before they can outspend the EU plus the US). In terms of pure materiel, they’re fighting like one distracted pinky finger of the US right now, and not really doing all that well. The US has weaknesses, but we’re not going to run out of stuff to fight the war with. Stuff is our whole thing. A shortage of stuff isn’t the US’s problem.
(Actually with PPP it would only by 32 more years, I guess)
Yeah. They still are.
I mean the dig at Boeing is fair I guess. 🙂 IDK dude, if you want to tell me a system to improve the West’s whole Kafka capitalism so that the US won’t have to suffer under the Boeings of the world, and I can be confident that the plane I’m flying on won’t suddenly fall apart because someone wanted to squeeze a little more into their quarterly bonus, I’m all ears. I’m not trying to be ignorant about the problems of the West. I’m just saying that if your solution is to get us on board with how Russia’s aviation industry is, then I’m gonna get on the 737 and cross my fingers.
Suuuuurre. Let me ask you: How long should the front line stay stalled at 100 km from the border before you acknowledge that the war isn’t going to plan?
If you told me a lot of the West DGAF, and is fine with just spending Ukrainian lives in their hopelessly mad scramble to defend their country against your boys’ invasion, without giving them enough materiel or approval to fight back in a way that will actually let them win, and that that’s real fucked up, I could agree with that. Like I say I’m not trying to be ignorant about it. But IDK how you can claim that everything in Ukraine is going to plan and sending out 50-year-old tanks to get blown up half an hour from the Russian border before they accomplish anything was like totally exactly what they wanted to have happen, and that’s how you can tell that Russia’s industrial economy is winning.
I think what they might be suggesting is that Lemmygrad banned them. How would we check to see if that’s true?
Ahh, there it is. https://lemmygrad.ml/modlog?page=1&actionType=All&userId=4373640
Yes, he was banned with the reason “debate pervert”
aww, mozz always had such hilarious takes
No, they are still spreading nonsense, this time lying about the Arabic language. The nerves of someone who doesn’t speak Arabic trying to teach me a native what words mean in Arabic. Why do liberals argue about something they know nothing about with absolute certainty?