• DreamlandLividity@lemmy.world
      214·
      7 months ago

      Fire is also no morals evil. Corporations are tools. Dangerous but powerful tools. You use them poorly and you end up with corporations murdering union leaders and poisoning communities. You don’t use them at all and you end up with breadlines and authoritarianism.

      • orrk@lemmy.world
        3·
        7 months ago

        nah, fire is just the propagation of exothermic reactions.

        Corporations require intent, they are designed to literally strip any moral consideration from their actions.

        PS: about that breadlines and authoritarianism, the US has had plenty of breadlines, and still does to this day, also authoritarians love corporations, after all corporations are inherently authoritarian.

        • DreamlandLividity@lemmy.world
          11·
          7 months ago

          Corporations don’t do moral consideration by their nature, just like fire. You can say it was “by design” for corporations and coincidence for fire, but that is a distinction without difference. Irrelevant for the argument.

          And funnily enough, having many authoritarians in a system surprisingly results in much less authoritarian system than having just one. That is why the 3 branches of government are split and it is why I don’t know of any true democracy that is not capitalistic. The authoritarians keep each other in check.

          • orrk@lemmy.world
            2·
            7 months ago

            you do realize that corporations aren’t some law of nature? corporations are a social construct in the most literal meaning of the phrase.

            secondly, you must think the HRE must have been some free paradise by your understanding, also I don’t know of any fascist system that that wasn’t capitalist, but I do know plenty of pre-capitalist democratic societies

            • DreamlandLividity@lemmy.world
              12·
              7 months ago

              Again, distinction without a difference.

              And you may want a refresher on your ancient democracies ;) Which one did not have a separate class of landowners (owning the only relevant means of production back then)? Also, just comparing agrarian societies to modern economic systems is childish. I am much better of living under “tyrannical capitalists” today than in any of those societies.

              • orrk@lemmy.world
                1·
                7 months ago

                I would wager to argue that one being, entirely a concept only existing in human thinking. The other being an exothermic reaction following the laws of nature is quite a distinction here.

                unless you are going to concede that we could just trust bust fire, can i sue fire for the damages on my house? what exactly is the fiscal return on the primary product of fire?

                as for:

                Also, just comparing agrarian societies to modern economic systems is childish. I am much better of living under “tyrannical capitalists” today than in any of those societies.

                You confuse the achievements of modernism with capitalism, it wasn’t capitalism the stopped famines in most of the world, it was a crazed Jewish-German nationalist with the backing of a local monarch

                also, most of the Greek democracies had all not enslaved male citizens enfranchised, with the woman’s vote in most the world being a consequence of socialist campaigning

                • DreamlandLividity@lemmy.world
                  12·
                  7 months ago

                  I would wager to argue that one being, entirely a concept only existing in human thinking. The other being an exothermic reaction following the laws of nature is quite a distinction here.

                  unless you are going to concede that we could just trust bust fire, can i sue fire for the damages on my house? what exactly is the fiscal return on the primary product of fire?

                  What are you even talking about?

                  You confuse the achievements of modernism with capitalism

                  You confuse using a hands crank with operating a nuclear powerplant. It is not about what created the modern industrial society. It is about whether an elected committee would be able to run it and average people be able to oversee it. Which they wouldn’t. People that dedicate their entire lives to studying management and economics are barely able to.

                  • orrk@lemmy.world
                    1·
                    7 months ago

                    What are you even talking about?

                    ok, really, REALLY simply put:

                    Fire, is generally an exothermic reaction, straight up chemistry/physics forces, there is nothing you can do that will change these functions.

                    a Corporation is NOT based on any natural laws, a Corporation does not exist outside the cognitive, it is not a real thing, it is an idea, there is no corporate matter in the universe.

                    in other words, Corporations, unlike fire, can be whatever we want them to be.

                    because corporations can be anything, anything bad they do is an Inherent moral question, and unironically you defend corporations with the idea of “just following orders”