I know that the people on that subreddit are kids, but what generally is the issue with “tankies” about? Socialists support actual socialist countries, don’t believe US propaganda, and don’t support the US imperialist order. Is it basically just “western left anti-communism” out straight of Blackshirts and Reds, or more general USian political illiteracy (i.e. I’m a socialist like Norway shit)?
I agree with all the other comments here but I want to add one more to it.
It’s nationalism. Mostly american nationalism, but also a “western” nationalism that is basically “i support the imperial core”, aka the “international community”.
Everyone that properly gives up on nationalism and becomes an internationalist does not fall into this group’s mindset. There are internationalists that disagree with us on many things but they don’t see us with this childish analysis of good vs evil (where the US and the imperial core are on the side of good).
This nationalism that resides deep down is also a major difference between scratched libs becoming fascists vs scratched libs that do not. Also a major aspect between those who “support Ukraine”(nationalism) and those who want an end to the war.
This is what people miss when they describe it. They are not just not knowing, they have been taught all of the life that the western camp is right and that all other are lying. They believe that they are better. Also than indigenous people. This is why they dismiss them so easily.
We aren’t doing enough to target nationalism and promote internationalism and I keep saying it in the hopes that someone will come along with like better ideas than I have that translates to better propaganda. We have a lot of effective tools for being anti cop or anti troops or anti america or anti racism etc etc but I rarely come across anything that is anti-nationalism. I think it’s one of the biggest things we ought to be doing but I don’t know effective tools for it.
Once we get people over the hump and out of nationalism this shit will become so much easier.
it’s definitely western anti-communism. calling them left is honestly giving them too much credit. they’re against transphobia (because for better and worse, white USian transfemininity is culturally linked to spending a lot of time posting online). i don’t think they have any particularly radical anti-racist, anti-capitalist, or feminist analysis outside of that.
Well I’m an anarchist and I’d call them various rude names.
I’m not saying you have to polish off Xi’s taint, but if you’re an anarchist toeing the US State Department’s line, you would literally be doing more for yourself and the people around you if you just decided to commit to liberalism.
The term originated from those who followed the party line of the Soviet Union. Specifically, those who supported the use of tanks to quell the 1956 Hungarian Revolution were the original tankies. Today, it is used by liberals in the same way that a boomer would call Democrats “commies”.
It is typically used as an insult by liberals who believe that they are the most progressive people on the planet. Instead of facing the harsh realities that they support fascist and imperialist policies or that someone else might be to the left of them politically, they instead berate anyone who calls them out on it.
If you don’t support NATO, you’re a tankie. If you have anything good to say about China, you’re a tankie. If you don’t think France should invade Niger - tankie. If you oppose sending tanks to Ukraine - TANKIE.
It’s both anti-communism and political illiteracy. I would add that people are generally averse to believe their neighbors and leaders are less evil than foreigners, especially because both cheaper consumer goods and easy credit provide the impression of capitalist freedom and liberal democracy being better alternatives than socialist equality and a socialist state.
“might makes right” as it were. The grievances against capitalism by r/196 and other western Berniecrats are because the superprofits and welfare aren’t being distributed as they once were to our antecedent generations. Using violence or political activism outside of voting or light protesting is out of the question because their standard of living is still bearable and preferable than to fight and die for, what liberals-masquerading-as-socialists effectively want, a welfare state.
I know that the people on that subreddit are kids, but what generally is the issue with “tankies” about? Socialists support actual socialist countries, don’t believe US propaganda, and don’t support the US imperialist order. Is it basically just “western left anti-communism” out straight of Blackshirts and Reds, or more general USian political illiteracy (i.e. I’m a socialist like Norway shit)?
I agree with all the other comments here but I want to add one more to it.
It’s nationalism. Mostly american nationalism, but also a “western” nationalism that is basically “i support the imperial core”, aka the “international community”.
Everyone that properly gives up on nationalism and becomes an internationalist does not fall into this group’s mindset. There are internationalists that disagree with us on many things but they don’t see us with this childish analysis of good vs evil (where the US and the imperial core are on the side of good).
This nationalism that resides deep down is also a major difference between scratched libs becoming fascists vs scratched libs that do not. Also a major aspect between those who “support Ukraine”(nationalism) and those who want an end to the war.
This is what people miss when they describe it. They are not just not knowing, they have been taught all of the life that the western camp is right and that all other are lying. They believe that they are better. Also than indigenous people. This is why they dismiss them so easily.
We aren’t doing enough to target nationalism and promote internationalism and I keep saying it in the hopes that someone will come along with like better ideas than I have that translates to better propaganda. We have a lot of effective tools for being anti cop or anti troops or anti america or anti racism etc etc but I rarely come across anything that is anti-nationalism. I think it’s one of the biggest things we ought to be doing but I don’t know effective tools for it.
Once we get people over the hump and out of nationalism this shit will become so much easier.
it’s definitely western anti-communism. calling them left is honestly giving them too much credit. they’re against transphobia (because for better and worse, white USian transfemininity is culturally linked to spending a lot of time posting online). i don’t think they have any particularly radical anti-racist, anti-capitalist, or feminist analysis outside of that.
it hurts because it’s true
Hey foreign countries are like that too, I know plenty of powerful trans Chinese posters
oh? based
Most of the anti tankie posters, especially the most vehement, would call themselves anarchists
Well I’m an anarchist and I’d call them various rude names.
I’m not saying you have to polish off Xi’s taint, but if you’re an anarchist toeing the US State Department’s line, you would literally be doing more for yourself and the people around you if you just decided to commit to liberalism.
Increasingly the bulk of “anti-tankie” posters are liberals and “socialist” socdems (liberals) by dint of the term becoming slightly more mainstream.
The term originated from those who followed the party line of the Soviet Union. Specifically, those who supported the use of tanks to quell the 1956 Hungarian Revolution were the original tankies. Today, it is used by liberals in the same way that a boomer would call Democrats “commies”.
It is typically used as an insult by liberals who believe that they are the most progressive people on the planet. Instead of facing the harsh realities that they support fascist and imperialist policies or that someone else might be to the left of them politically, they instead berate anyone who calls them out on it.
If you don’t support NATO, you’re a tankie. If you have anything good to say about China, you’re a tankie. If you don’t think France should invade Niger - tankie. If you oppose sending tanks to Ukraine - TANKIE.
It’s both anti-communism and political illiteracy. I would add that people are generally averse to believe their neighbors and leaders are less evil than foreigners, especially because both cheaper consumer goods and easy credit provide the impression of capitalist freedom and liberal democracy being better alternatives than socialist equality and a socialist state.
“might makes right” as it were. The grievances against capitalism by r/196 and other western Berniecrats are because the superprofits and welfare aren’t being distributed as they once were to our antecedent generations. Using violence or political activism outside of voting or light protesting is out of the question because their standard of living is still bearable and preferable than to fight and die for, what liberals-masquerading-as-socialists effectively want, a welfare state.