While some countries are more likely than others to sign an international agreement to phase out fossil fuels, measures to tackle fossil fuel demand by adding a higher carbon price are essential.
Wanna bet that fossil fuel have some undiscovered scientific secrets that we will miss because we used it all.
Same with all the rare life in the rainforests.
We are actively crippling the future of mankind, for wha? To go to work to exploiting corporations and to buy things made at the unapologetically unsustainable expensive of our planet.
Petrochemicals are a large component in organic chemistry and types of polymers. So preservation of those materials simply for retaining as a chemical reagent is important than just burning the material.
There are still centuries worth of coal if I’m not mistaken. Fossil fuels would go nowhere if there wasn’t a need to shut them down.
Large scale sails could solve some problems the shipping industry has, IIRC. They’re experimenting with Methanol (Maersk?) and Ammonia, because batteries and hydrogen apparently do not have required qualities for large scale shipping.
Coal is still a finite resource, even if there’s centuries worth of it.
But I totally agree about sailing ships. For certain cargos that don’t need super-fast shipping - grain, ores, etc. - sails make a ton of sense. The last windjammer stopped service in freaking 1957.
Makes sense environmentally. But that’s not the focus of our societies. Everything is about profit and costs.
The last sailing boats didn’t stop because they were slower. I’m not even sure if they were, they could go almost 20 knots in ideal conditions.
The main point was labour cost. An engine ship needs just a few men to run it. A sailing ship with dozens of sails needs dozens of men. The work was incredibly hard and dangerous (like being wet and exposed to the weather for days and weeks working 14 hours or something a day and I think it was normal to consider one death per cape horn trip). If you wanted to do something like this today, you’d have to pay high salaries and probably high insurance costs.
Also sailing ships are more difficult to plan a schedule, because they can’t go a constant speed. That brings higher costs for storing goods.
There are a lot of things we did by hand once upon a time that are now done by computers and motors. Why do you imagine a modern sailing ship would use manpower to raise and lower sails?
Smaller ships would require more manpower per ton, but not as much as was required on classic sailing ships.
I assumed this would be the case, but also did some quick research before I responded. There’s a cargo sailing ship from over 100 years ago still in active service. It’s called the Avontuur. And apparently, interest in commissioning new sailing cargo ships is on the rise.
That’s cool, thank you for pointing out that ship. I only knew of the Tres Hombres which runs under Fairtransport. I’ve seen some videos on Youtube and got the impression they are financially struggling.
I love those sailing ships of the old times. I find them fascinating. If you love them like me, this is a real gem of video material commented by a sailing captain.
You know what, it might be better. Less pollution, slower life, reduced digital addiction. Could also push new tech development not linked to fossil fuel.
That said, there’s also a possibility where electricity becomes limited (it will) and only rich douches can use it.
Mains-level electricity might become rare, but solar panels are so cheap, ubiquitous, and durable that we’ll have them for a while.
Plus every gasoline car has an alternator capable of 12v that can be spun by anything from a Sterling engine to a small child turning it by hand. There’s billions of them. Unless we all forget how cars work we’ll have at least some electricity.
You’re not wrong and my comment is supposed to be jokingly.
I’m sure you used your example to show how easy it is, it just sounds so terribly distopian.
Your point could have been an optimistic outlook into a different future but:
Why? Why of all things that can be used to turn an alternator, why the heck does it have to be child labor?
I could have said we put a dog in a treadmill to do it, like how we used to rotate meat on spits. But in my head I was thinking more of a parent using the electricity to do something and getting their kid to turn the crank.
Even if climate change wasn’t a problem, these guys should be aware that fossil fuels are a limited resource and won’t last forever, right?
So when we do finally run out, what happens then? We just go back to sailing ships and horses?
They do not give a shit. They’re not here to answer anything in good faith.
Wanna bet that fossil fuel have some undiscovered scientific secrets that we will miss because we used it all.
Same with all the rare life in the rainforests.
We are actively crippling the future of mankind, for wha? To go to work to exploiting corporations and to buy things made at the unapologetically unsustainable expensive of our planet.
Petrochemicals are a large component in organic chemistry and types of polymers. So preservation of those materials simply for retaining as a chemical reagent is important than just burning the material.
There are still centuries worth of coal if I’m not mistaken. Fossil fuels would go nowhere if there wasn’t a need to shut them down.
Large scale sails could solve some problems the shipping industry has, IIRC. They’re experimenting with Methanol (Maersk?) and Ammonia, because batteries and hydrogen apparently do not have required qualities for large scale shipping.
Coal is still a finite resource, even if there’s centuries worth of it.
But I totally agree about sailing ships. For certain cargos that don’t need super-fast shipping - grain, ores, etc. - sails make a ton of sense. The last windjammer stopped service in freaking 1957.
Makes sense environmentally. But that’s not the focus of our societies. Everything is about profit and costs.
The last sailing boats didn’t stop because they were slower. I’m not even sure if they were, they could go almost 20 knots in ideal conditions.
The main point was labour cost. An engine ship needs just a few men to run it. A sailing ship with dozens of sails needs dozens of men. The work was incredibly hard and dangerous (like being wet and exposed to the weather for days and weeks working 14 hours or something a day and I think it was normal to consider one death per cape horn trip). If you wanted to do something like this today, you’d have to pay high salaries and probably high insurance costs.
Also sailing ships are more difficult to plan a schedule, because they can’t go a constant speed. That brings higher costs for storing goods.
There are a lot of things we did by hand once upon a time that are now done by computers and motors. Why do you imagine a modern sailing ship would use manpower to raise and lower sails?
Smaller ships would require more manpower per ton, but not as much as was required on classic sailing ships.
Fair point!
I assumed this would be the case, but also did some quick research before I responded. There’s a cargo sailing ship from over 100 years ago still in active service. It’s called the Avontuur. And apparently, interest in commissioning new sailing cargo ships is on the rise.
That’s cool, thank you for pointing out that ship. I only knew of the Tres Hombres which runs under Fairtransport. I’ve seen some videos on Youtube and got the impression they are financially struggling.
I love those sailing ships of the old times. I find them fascinating. If you love them like me, this is a real gem of video material commented by a sailing captain.
You know what, it might be better. Less pollution, slower life, reduced digital addiction. Could also push new tech development not linked to fossil fuel.
That said, there’s also a possibility where electricity becomes limited (it will) and only rich douches can use it.
Mains-level electricity might become rare, but solar panels are so cheap, ubiquitous, and durable that we’ll have them for a while.
Plus every gasoline car has an alternator capable of 12v that can be spun by anything from a Sterling engine to a small child turning it by hand. There’s billions of them. Unless we all forget how cars work we’ll have at least some electricity.
You’re not wrong and my comment is supposed to be jokingly.
I’m sure you used your example to show how easy it is, it just sounds so terribly distopian. Your point could have been an optimistic outlook into a different future but:
Why? Why of all things that can be used to turn an alternator, why the heck does it have to be child labor?
I took it to mean “even a child could do it!” rather than “we could make children do this.”
All good mate! xD
I just thought it funny sounding, but understood what you wanted to say.
I could have said we put a dog in a treadmill to do it, like how we used to rotate meat on spits. But in my head I was thinking more of a parent using the electricity to do something and getting their kid to turn the crank.