Not for nothing, but speaking in tongues is demonstrably bullshit. It’s been studied linguistically and neurologically, and been found to be wholly non-miraculous.
Well, no. Plenty of things have been, and still are, unexplained, but that doesn’t mean they violate the laws of nature. It just means our understanding of those laws is incomplete.
Like 3,000 years ago, a total eclipse would have seemed miraculous, but people of the time just had not yet mapped orbits and the planets.
In this case, glossolalia is a phenomenon that has been well-studied and found to be entirely mundane. They are not speaking foreign languages they had never heard before, they are not speaking new languages, they are not making phonemes that they have not heard before. Anyone can learn to speak in tongues, even if they do not believe in the spirituality of it. Neurologically, someone speaking in tongues is fully conscious and totally in control.
There are no cases of spontaneous glossolalia in groups that are not familiar with the experience.
It’s weird, for sure. The people doing it seem to sincerely believe they are doing something. And there’s no correlation to neurological conditions or mental illness. Functional MRI exams show that it isn’t always controlled by the same part of the brain responsible for speech.
It just seems like people can learn to convince themselves that they have the magic power to talk weird and believe that they are channeling some supernatural power. They are not channeling any supernatural power, they are just making weird noises.
Depends on who you ask. The Catholic Church will claim rigorous evidence of it’s miracles, especially the ones that lead to sainthood.
Of course, they don’t respect the scientific method, so what’s the point of trying to have a serious investigation if the methodology is going to be biased and flawed?
There are a lot of aspects of the world that are wonderful, can’t yet be explained, and maybe don’t even need explanation to be worshiped and enjoyed. Religion is just a means to make sense of these parts of our cosmos (I myself am a complete atheist, but have friends whose lives have been definitely enriched by finding religion). The problems arise when manipulative people codify these beliefs into regimented systems of control. That creates an incentive to coerce others to follow the same beliefs. That in turn leads to religions beginning to be shaped by a kind of memetic survival of the fittest. Some religions try to short-cut the hard work of having actually good ideas that improve people’s lives, by instead coercing people into beliefs that maximize birth rate and reduce individual thought.
Yes they have misinterpreted the Bible, but also they don’t seem to be liars. Their faith appears to be entirely sincere, and there’s no evidence they are lying. From the outside, they look as serious as every other Christian, which is to say it’s all ridiculous.
I don’t want to make assumptions about you, but your point is the sort of “no true Scotsman” argument Christians like to make about the “other” Christians they don’t agree with. Believers can see and point out the flaws in the beliefs of others, but all religions are down in the same irrational hole.
Just because you find it ridiculous doesn’t mean that they aren’t sincere. You’re assuming that people cannot convince themselves of a delusion so hard that they fully believe it.
Consider Catholics who believe that wine and bread turn to blood and flesh when blessed by a priest, or Young Earth Creationists who reject the whole of modern science because their holy scripture says that the earth is less than 10,000 years old, or faith healers, or people who pray for miracles, or people who believe in ghosts, or a global flood, or the stories of Adam and Eve, or a burning bush passing down commandments, or that Moses brought plagues to free the Jewish slaves in Egypt, or that Christ was born of a virgin and rose from the dead. All of those beliefs are equally irrational.
It doesn’t matter at all if their interpretation of the Bible contradicts with your interpretation of the Bible, because the Bible is not a source of literal truth. It contains many demonstrably false statements, and a myriad of contradictory statements. Even as a source of allegorical morality tales, the Bible is lacking by any modern standard.
All of the beliefs I listed are demonstrably false, and anyone promoting them really ought to know better. There are hucksters who promote lies, and there are true believers that promote delusions. Speaking in tongues is equally valid, and equally supported by the Bible as anything else I listed. People who speak in tongues have undergone fMRI testing, and neurologically speaking, there’s no evidence they are lying. They are vocalizing without sctivating the speach center of their brains. It’s weird, but it’s not magic.
I understand you don’t like the truth, but all magical thinking is the same. You want to look down on other people who have different beliefs than you. You want them to be stupid, because their ideas are so obviously false. You believe your interpretation of your holy scripture is the correct one, because that is the comforting idea that keeps away the existential fear of oblivion.
Think about how arrogant that sounds to an outsider.
Isn’t that most religions? You have the sacred knowledge of the divine will of the creator and ultimate judge of the Universe, who is also your close personal friend. You telepathically communicate, and He tells you that everything you already think is correct. Whatever happens in your lifetime, you’re going to hang out with Him behind the velvet rope in the afterlife while all of your enemies are tortured for eternity.
Not for nothing, but speaking in tongues is demonstrably bullshit. It’s been studied linguistically and neurologically, and been found to be wholly non-miraculous.
https://frame-poythress.org/linguistic-and-sociological-analyses-of-modern-tongues-speaking-their-contributions-and-limitations/
Has anything been found to be miraculous?
Sadly, only Miracle Whip has passed the scientific tests to legally be called miraculous.
Miracle Max was also pretty miraculous
Just don’t rush him, you don’t want rotten miracles.
Its got the creamy/tangy in spades
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Octopi. Miraculous little creatures
Well, no. Plenty of things have been, and still are, unexplained, but that doesn’t mean they violate the laws of nature. It just means our understanding of those laws is incomplete.
Like 3,000 years ago, a total eclipse would have seemed miraculous, but people of the time just had not yet mapped orbits and the planets.
In this case, glossolalia is a phenomenon that has been well-studied and found to be entirely mundane. They are not speaking foreign languages they had never heard before, they are not speaking new languages, they are not making phonemes that they have not heard before. Anyone can learn to speak in tongues, even if they do not believe in the spirituality of it. Neurologically, someone speaking in tongues is fully conscious and totally in control.
There are no cases of spontaneous glossolalia in groups that are not familiar with the experience.
It’s weird, for sure. The people doing it seem to sincerely believe they are doing something. And there’s no correlation to neurological conditions or mental illness. Functional MRI exams show that it isn’t always controlled by the same part of the brain responsible for speech.
It just seems like people can learn to convince themselves that they have the magic power to talk weird and believe that they are channeling some supernatural power. They are not channeling any supernatural power, they are just making weird noises.
Ladybug and Cat Noir.
Wonder Bread was in the running, back in the 60s.
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Quite a lot actually, through rigorous examination by the Catholic church.
Fkn lol
Depends on who you ask. The Catholic Church will claim rigorous evidence of it’s miracles, especially the ones that lead to sainthood.
Of course, they don’t respect the scientific method, so what’s the point of trying to have a serious investigation if the methodology is going to be biased and flawed?
Well, there’s a jellyfish capable of immortality. It’s as close as anyone is likely to get to a miracle in the real world.
There are a lot of aspects of the world that are wonderful, can’t yet be explained, and maybe don’t even need explanation to be worshiped and enjoyed. Religion is just a means to make sense of these parts of our cosmos (I myself am a complete atheist, but have friends whose lives have been definitely enriched by finding religion). The problems arise when manipulative people codify these beliefs into regimented systems of control. That creates an incentive to coerce others to follow the same beliefs. That in turn leads to religions beginning to be shaped by a kind of memetic survival of the fittest. Some religions try to short-cut the hard work of having actually good ideas that improve people’s lives, by instead coercing people into beliefs that maximize birth rate and reduce individual thought.
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Yes they have misinterpreted the Bible, but also they don’t seem to be liars. Their faith appears to be entirely sincere, and there’s no evidence they are lying. From the outside, they look as serious as every other Christian, which is to say it’s all ridiculous.
I don’t want to make assumptions about you, but your point is the sort of “no true Scotsman” argument Christians like to make about the “other” Christians they don’t agree with. Believers can see and point out the flaws in the beliefs of others, but all religions are down in the same irrational hole.
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Just because you find it ridiculous doesn’t mean that they aren’t sincere. You’re assuming that people cannot convince themselves of a delusion so hard that they fully believe it.
Consider Catholics who believe that wine and bread turn to blood and flesh when blessed by a priest, or Young Earth Creationists who reject the whole of modern science because their holy scripture says that the earth is less than 10,000 years old, or faith healers, or people who pray for miracles, or people who believe in ghosts, or a global flood, or the stories of Adam and Eve, or a burning bush passing down commandments, or that Moses brought plagues to free the Jewish slaves in Egypt, or that Christ was born of a virgin and rose from the dead. All of those beliefs are equally irrational.
It doesn’t matter at all if their interpretation of the Bible contradicts with your interpretation of the Bible, because the Bible is not a source of literal truth. It contains many demonstrably false statements, and a myriad of contradictory statements. Even as a source of allegorical morality tales, the Bible is lacking by any modern standard.
You think they are ridiculous. Matthew 7:3
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All of the beliefs I listed are demonstrably false, and anyone promoting them really ought to know better. There are hucksters who promote lies, and there are true believers that promote delusions. Speaking in tongues is equally valid, and equally supported by the Bible as anything else I listed. People who speak in tongues have undergone fMRI testing, and neurologically speaking, there’s no evidence they are lying. They are vocalizing without sctivating the speach center of their brains. It’s weird, but it’s not magic.
I understand you don’t like the truth, but all magical thinking is the same. You want to look down on other people who have different beliefs than you. You want them to be stupid, because their ideas are so obviously false. You believe your interpretation of your holy scripture is the correct one, because that is the comforting idea that keeps away the existential fear of oblivion.
Think about how arrogant that sounds to an outsider.
Nothing is miraculous. Nothing exists outside of nature. Only dimwits believe in that shit.
It seems like a delusion of grandeur. A mental illness.
Isn’t that most religions? You have the sacred knowledge of the divine will of the creator and ultimate judge of the Universe, who is also your close personal friend. You telepathically communicate, and He tells you that everything you already think is correct. Whatever happens in your lifetime, you’re going to hang out with Him behind the velvet rope in the afterlife while all of your enemies are tortured for eternity.
Yeah, for some it’s a crutch that helps them through difficult times so it’s not all bad but largely I agree