I think I get what you’re saying. If we don’t talk about things, it ceases to be part of our culture. Reminds me of something Morgan Freeman said:
“Stop talking about it. I’m going to stop calling you a white man,” Freeman says to Wallace. “And I’m going to ask you to stop calling me a black man. I know you as Mike Wallace. You know me as Morgan Freeman. You wouldn’t say, ‘Well, I know this white guy named Mike Wallace.’ You know what I’m sayin’?”
I don’t know if it’s practical in a world culture of billions of people, but I understand the thought process.
That view feels overly romanticised to me, tbh; the idea that the way to stop racism is to just not acknowledge it. That not drawing attention to things will just make it go away.
There’s a lot of institutionalised racism in many countries, either due to racism itself or as a knock on effect from other failed systems.
And, of course, there’s just plain bigotry that is passed patent to child and from social group to social group. That’s not going to stop by just censoring media.
The message of this comic is, basically, “here’s some unconscious biases you could be making”. Reading it as “this is how you’re supposed to talk to black people” is… Well, if that’s the reading you make, then whether the comic exists or not isn’t going to change anything.
It feels like this sort of thing makes people feel uncomfortable and they try to justify the removal of the media rather than grappling with the concept of privilege (which, tbf, is hard for people to do).
I mean as a soon to be 29 year old that grew up kind of sheltered for the longest time I had a minimal knowledge of racial stereotypes. It wasn’t until I started seeing stuff like this post that I even knew that a lot of people (as an example) assumed black girls holding babies were holding their own kids.
I would’ve had to come up with that stereotype all on my own … and honestly I don’t think I ever would have.
If someone had proposed the idea of putting on black face to dress up as Obama for Halloween, in another life I could’ve seen myself going for it because I’ve liked Obama ever since he was running for office back in 08 and I had no idea about the “black face” connotations until the last few years. It wouldn’t have been any more controversial (to my innocent mind) than putting on a red wig to be the joker.
Surely I can’t be the only one that … had no idea about this stuff and no way to perpetuate it in any malicious way because of that.
Like… I agree with you, but also I do feel like there’s something to this point. Teaching racial stereotypes and framing conversations in terms of race definitely keeps race in the spotlight in some circumstances when other factors might be better focal points.
I was also someone that grew up in Appalachia… and let me tell you, it’s interesting that black people and appalachian people are on opposite sides, the poverty, the bigotry against the appalachian subculture, the warm feelings about the law breaking moonshine running “good old boys” from some folks, etc, there’s a lot of rhymes in the circumstances.
I think that’s part of what some rural people get so offended about. Like the dude that works at Walmart and lives in a crap trailer with undrinkable well water … walking up to that guy and telling him about his “white privilege” also feels, wrong.
It was weird to me when I went to college (first in my family to go to a 4 year school) and there were people just casually talking about vacations featuring airplanes and international travel. Like, the people that did “fancy” big vacations that I remember from my home town were going to Myrtle Beach not Greece.
I feel like a lot of people are talking past each other … and to be clear I’m not discounting that race is still an issue in the US that’s systemic and needs addressed, but it does feel like there’s some nuance that’s been lost in the broader conversation.
Perhaps with a different approach/tone some more people could find common ground. It’s a hard problem.
I tend to agree. It would work if you could simultaneously adjust everyone in the culture, but that’s really only possible if the population is small. In large populations it’s more effective to shame people who are being racist.
That’s unrelated to this comic though, Morgan Freeman is correct that people shouldn’t arbitrarily bring someones race into a conversation.
But this comic isn’t doing that this comic is pointing out racism, and racism should always be pointed out and labelled as such when it is seen, because as a society we need to browbeat the shit out of people who are consistently racist and you can’t do that unless you go and say “that’s racist”
The comic is pointing out casual racism in how the question asked to two women in the same position at the same age are asked vastly different questions based solely on their race.
Now IM NOT SAYING I AGREE OR THAT THIS BIAS DOESNT EXIST but I think that what they are getting at is that pointing out the stereotyping you do perpetuate it to a degree. Sort of a flip side to how sometimes people just assume that every black person has experienced overt aggressive racism or every gay person has had a huge coming out moment where they had to “break it” to their parents.
Like if I was jewish and I made a joke about how cheap I am and someone at work didnt get the joke because they had never heard the “covetous jew” stereotype. So then I’d have to explain it to them and put that knowledge into their head.
Like if I was jewish and I made a joke about how cheap I am and someone at work didnt get the joke because they had never heard the “covetous jew” stereotype.
Oof, I accidentally used the phase “gyped” at work because sadly that word is still stuck in my lexicon and I immediately caught myself as soon as the word left my lips and backtracked to fix my sentence to “ripped off”. My co-worker, who’s father is Romani, looked confused and told me “I know what gyped means” to which I said “I know, I’m sorry” and after a bit of back and forward - me thinking I had offended my co-worker with a racial slur, my co-worker feeling mostly confused and condescended to, as to why I backtracked on my sentence to replace it with a synonym… Turns out my co-worker had no idea that the term “gyped” comes from gypsy and is rooted in racial stereotypes.
She’s always openly and proudly self identifed as a gypsy, and the whole time I was thinking “fuck yeah, reclaim that phrase!” the same way I proudly identify as queer despite it being used as a slurr against me when I was younger.
But no, turns out she genuinely had no idea that in our country, gypsy is a slur, because her experience within her community and the places she’s lived were totally different, it was an innocent term to her.
It blew my mind that an almost 80 year old Romani woman had been hearing people throw racial slurs at her for 40 years in this country, and she was fine with it because that word had no weight as a slurr for her… But now it does, because I told her that most of the time, here, it’s a slur.
Not dissimilar from when my British partner met my friends and they’re all joking about who’s the woggiest wog and the fobbiest fob, and my partner is sitting there horrified because in the UK wog and fob are slurs, but in Australia they’re self used labels of pride, and I had to make a mental note to remove that from my vocabulary if I’m outside Aus because otherwise I would have found myself walking around England offending people by complete accident.
A lot of people don’t realize that the word gypsy has negative connotations or was ever used as a slur. For a lot of people, it’s the only word they’ve ever heard to describe Romani people.
I’m not sure if that’s a bad thing. The negative association being forgotten seems like a good thing, but the actual origin is bad.
I dunno, we can just sort of, never escape the long arm of history, I guess. I suppose that’s maybe a good thing, lest history just repeat itself, but, you know, barring like, more strict material, economic, or discriminatory concerns about racism, it can certainly kind of give a more major weight to what otherwise might be seen as innocent things or just kind of, historical oddities, or holdovers. I think probably, though, for every “gypped”, which is maybe a term that has lost racial connotation over time, there’s like, 30 or 40 n-words and racial tropes that are much more overtly offensive, and I think it’s probably more important that those are called out as racist than that we sort of, become too overzealous and lament the death of innocence that comes with knowing “gypped” originates from a racial slur.
I also don’t think that more information is really a bad thing, in any case. I don’t think that an 80 year old woman who has maybe been hearing the term her whole life and has never heard the racial connotation, is going to meaningfully be depressed by like, hearing the frequency of that word, or something. That might be the case, but I mean, if she went 80 years without really making the correlation, it’s probably not the case that most people were using it against her in a negative way, and if even she only knew the history recently, it’s pretty easy for her to just go “oh, well, they don’t know the history of the term, really they mean cheap, they don’t mean anything by it”. I mean, ideally, right. People are more complicated than that, obviously, but I still don’t think the information itself is a bad thing.
But it is true that these kinds of unintentionally racist differences in commentary are often done by white people. Not all white people but a large enough subsection of that population to become a general problem.
Too many people are wildly overanalyzing this comic or getting needlessly insulted by it. I think your interpretation is the correct one.
Casual, unintentional racism is more of a problem than people generally realize, because they’re not even conscious of it. Racism doesn’t always show itself in overt acts of hatred or discrimination. Sometimes, a well-meaning person can say or do hurtful, insulting things because of racist assumptions they don’t know they’re making.
It’s the same way with sexism. It’s not always blatant “wOmAn bAd”
I’d go to a mechanic with my ex to get her car worked on and everyone only wants to talk to me. I’ve worked food service where our cashier was a woman and people would deliberately only talk to me. I had a pipe burst at my roommates house but because I’m the man the water service guy only wanted to talk to me.
That last one fucked with me the most cause I’m like “dude, this isn’t my house”
I get what you’re saying, but that’s a bad argument. If a racist artist drew a black person with a bone through their nose, tats on their face, with a crack pipe in one hand and a bucket of KFC in the other, they can’t hide behind “where does my art say ‘All black people are like this’?”
It’s funny how the people writing comics like these don’t see that they are perpetuating a stereotype themselves.
Racist sterotypes are worse than sterotypes about racists.
pOiNTInG oUt rAciSm iS ThE sAmE aS bEInG RaciSt
I think I get what you’re saying. If we don’t talk about things, it ceases to be part of our culture. Reminds me of something Morgan Freeman said:
I don’t know if it’s practical in a world culture of billions of people, but I understand the thought process.
That view feels overly romanticised to me, tbh; the idea that the way to stop racism is to just not acknowledge it. That not drawing attention to things will just make it go away.
There’s a lot of institutionalised racism in many countries, either due to racism itself or as a knock on effect from other failed systems.
And, of course, there’s just plain bigotry that is passed patent to child and from social group to social group. That’s not going to stop by just censoring media.
The message of this comic is, basically, “here’s some unconscious biases you could be making”. Reading it as “this is how you’re supposed to talk to black people” is… Well, if that’s the reading you make, then whether the comic exists or not isn’t going to change anything.
It feels like this sort of thing makes people feel uncomfortable and they try to justify the removal of the media rather than grappling with the concept of privilege (which, tbf, is hard for people to do).
I mean as a soon to be 29 year old that grew up kind of sheltered for the longest time I had a minimal knowledge of racial stereotypes. It wasn’t until I started seeing stuff like this post that I even knew that a lot of people (as an example) assumed black girls holding babies were holding their own kids.
I would’ve had to come up with that stereotype all on my own … and honestly I don’t think I ever would have.
If someone had proposed the idea of putting on black face to dress up as Obama for Halloween, in another life I could’ve seen myself going for it because I’ve liked Obama ever since he was running for office back in 08 and I had no idea about the “black face” connotations until the last few years. It wouldn’t have been any more controversial (to my innocent mind) than putting on a red wig to be the joker.
Surely I can’t be the only one that … had no idea about this stuff and no way to perpetuate it in any malicious way because of that.
Like… I agree with you, but also I do feel like there’s something to this point. Teaching racial stereotypes and framing conversations in terms of race definitely keeps race in the spotlight in some circumstances when other factors might be better focal points.
I was also someone that grew up in Appalachia… and let me tell you, it’s interesting that black people and appalachian people are on opposite sides, the poverty, the bigotry against the appalachian subculture, the warm feelings about the law breaking moonshine running “good old boys” from some folks, etc, there’s a lot of rhymes in the circumstances.
I think that’s part of what some rural people get so offended about. Like the dude that works at Walmart and lives in a crap trailer with undrinkable well water … walking up to that guy and telling him about his “white privilege” also feels, wrong.
It was weird to me when I went to college (first in my family to go to a 4 year school) and there were people just casually talking about vacations featuring airplanes and international travel. Like, the people that did “fancy” big vacations that I remember from my home town were going to Myrtle Beach not Greece.
I feel like a lot of people are talking past each other … and to be clear I’m not discounting that race is still an issue in the US that’s systemic and needs addressed, but it does feel like there’s some nuance that’s been lost in the broader conversation.
Perhaps with a different approach/tone some more people could find common ground. It’s a hard problem.
I tend to agree. It would work if you could simultaneously adjust everyone in the culture, but that’s really only possible if the population is small. In large populations it’s more effective to shame people who are being racist.
That’s unrelated to this comic though, Morgan Freeman is correct that people shouldn’t arbitrarily bring someones race into a conversation.
But this comic isn’t doing that this comic is pointing out racism, and racism should always be pointed out and labelled as such when it is seen, because as a society we need to browbeat the shit out of people who are consistently racist and you can’t do that unless you go and say “that’s racist”
You got it. Racism is treating people differently based on race.
The only way to end it is to stop drawing on differences.
And this is exactly the message of the comic. Yet you disagree with the comic…
I dislike racism its true.
Then what’s your problem with the comic?
You got it.
We can’t beat racism by continually pointing out racial differences. This is just more racism and isn’t helpful.
Sure but that’s not what the comic is about.
The comic is pointing out casual racism in how the question asked to two women in the same position at the same age are asked vastly different questions based solely on their race.
Casual racism through generalisation you say? You really can’t see how that works both ways?
Now I’m worried that I’m blind to that stereotype, too. Care to elaborate?
Now IM NOT SAYING I AGREE OR THAT THIS BIAS DOESNT EXIST but I think that what they are getting at is that pointing out the stereotyping you do perpetuate it to a degree. Sort of a flip side to how sometimes people just assume that every black person has experienced overt aggressive racism or every gay person has had a huge coming out moment where they had to “break it” to their parents.
Like if I was jewish and I made a joke about how cheap I am and someone at work didnt get the joke because they had never heard the “covetous jew” stereotype. So then I’d have to explain it to them and put that knowledge into their head.
Oof, I accidentally used the phase “gyped” at work because sadly that word is still stuck in my lexicon and I immediately caught myself as soon as the word left my lips and backtracked to fix my sentence to “ripped off”. My co-worker, who’s father is Romani, looked confused and told me “I know what gyped means” to which I said “I know, I’m sorry” and after a bit of back and forward - me thinking I had offended my co-worker with a racial slur, my co-worker feeling mostly confused and condescended to, as to why I backtracked on my sentence to replace it with a synonym… Turns out my co-worker had no idea that the term “gyped” comes from gypsy and is rooted in racial stereotypes.
She’s always openly and proudly self identifed as a gypsy, and the whole time I was thinking “fuck yeah, reclaim that phrase!” the same way I proudly identify as queer despite it being used as a slurr against me when I was younger.
But no, turns out she genuinely had no idea that in our country, gypsy is a slur, because her experience within her community and the places she’s lived were totally different, it was an innocent term to her.
It blew my mind that an almost 80 year old Romani woman had been hearing people throw racial slurs at her for 40 years in this country, and she was fine with it because that word had no weight as a slurr for her… But now it does, because I told her that most of the time, here, it’s a slur.
Not dissimilar from when my British partner met my friends and they’re all joking about who’s the woggiest wog and the fobbiest fob, and my partner is sitting there horrified because in the UK wog and fob are slurs, but in Australia they’re self used labels of pride, and I had to make a mental note to remove that from my vocabulary if I’m outside Aus because otherwise I would have found myself walking around England offending people by complete accident.
A lot of people don’t realize that the word gypsy has negative connotations or was ever used as a slur. For a lot of people, it’s the only word they’ve ever heard to describe Romani people.
I’m not sure if that’s a bad thing. The negative association being forgotten seems like a good thing, but the actual origin is bad.
I dunno, we can just sort of, never escape the long arm of history, I guess. I suppose that’s maybe a good thing, lest history just repeat itself, but, you know, barring like, more strict material, economic, or discriminatory concerns about racism, it can certainly kind of give a more major weight to what otherwise might be seen as innocent things or just kind of, historical oddities, or holdovers. I think probably, though, for every “gypped”, which is maybe a term that has lost racial connotation over time, there’s like, 30 or 40 n-words and racial tropes that are much more overtly offensive, and I think it’s probably more important that those are called out as racist than that we sort of, become too overzealous and lament the death of innocence that comes with knowing “gypped” originates from a racial slur.
I also don’t think that more information is really a bad thing, in any case. I don’t think that an 80 year old woman who has maybe been hearing the term her whole life and has never heard the racial connotation, is going to meaningfully be depressed by like, hearing the frequency of that word, or something. That might be the case, but I mean, if she went 80 years without really making the correlation, it’s probably not the case that most people were using it against her in a negative way, and if even she only knew the history recently, it’s pretty easy for her to just go “oh, well, they don’t know the history of the term, really they mean cheap, they don’t mean anything by it”. I mean, ideally, right. People are more complicated than that, obviously, but I still don’t think the information itself is a bad thing.
Oooooooh. I see.
Thats the charitable answer, and one I kind of agree with in some cases.
The uncharitable one is “Why all the racists gotta be white!?!” Which is just lazy whataboutism.
How much gold do we owe you for the comment?
This isnt Reddit…
Paypal and any major currency is fine.
White people are all racist would be one stereotype shown here but there’s a few
Or maybe the comic is just showing common racist comments commonly said by some white people and isn’t saying that all white people are racist.
That’s a racial generalisation…otherwise known as racism.
The thing they’re complaining about in the comic…
“Acknowledging racism is the real racism!”
is “racial generalization” your only touch point for what racism is
Help! Help! I’m being repressed!
BLOODY PEASANT!
Bloody peasant
But it is true that these kinds of unintentionally racist differences in commentary are often done by white people. Not all white people but a large enough subsection of that population to become a general problem.
That’s what the comic is pointing out.
Too many people are wildly overanalyzing this comic or getting needlessly insulted by it. I think your interpretation is the correct one.
Casual, unintentional racism is more of a problem than people generally realize, because they’re not even conscious of it. Racism doesn’t always show itself in overt acts of hatred or discrimination. Sometimes, a well-meaning person can say or do hurtful, insulting things because of racist assumptions they don’t know they’re making.
It’s the same way with sexism. It’s not always blatant “wOmAn bAd”
I’d go to a mechanic with my ex to get her car worked on and everyone only wants to talk to me. I’ve worked food service where our cashier was a woman and people would deliberately only talk to me. I had a pipe burst at my roommates house but because I’m the man the water service guy only wanted to talk to me.
That last one fucked with me the most cause I’m like “dude, this isn’t my house”
deleted by creator
Let’s pretend it doesn’t exist. Surely that’s less racist than acknowledging the truth!
deleted by creator
We must all be missing the “All white people are like this” sign you must’ve found in the comic 🤪
I get what you’re saying, but that’s a bad argument. If a racist artist drew a black person with a bone through their nose, tats on their face, with a crack pipe in one hand and a bucket of KFC in the other, they can’t hide behind “where does my art say ‘All black people are like this’?”
That ain’t the same at all bud, but you can try and make it seem like that.
(Technically aren’t half the white people in the comic not actually being racist?)
deleted by creator
Waaah, “not all white people,” waaah!
deleted by creator
Hit a nerve, did they?