If they want it or not fans will do it anyway, it’s in their best interest to get the police involved so fans meddling are committing obstruction.
Maybe? We don’t know that’s the point of investigation. Dude stole history and should be punished for it, why are you implying a theft over time is absolved?
Ed: should I point out that knowingly keeping stolen property is a crime as well so whomever has it right now is commiting a new and fun crime unless they immediately get into contact with the Roddenberry’s.
Sure, roddennberry lent it to the motion picture set guys and it was never returned even with gene asking for it directly. No 0 one misplaces ≈50lbs of wood that’s 3ft long and has specific storage requirements.
Historians, like model-maker David Shaw, who wrote a detailed history of the lost 3-foot model, believe that for at least a time, the model sat on Roddenberry’s desk and was his property. They believe Roddenberry loaned it to people working on the production of Star Trek: The Motion Picture, but it was never returned. There is even a record of Roddenberry writing to contacts at the production house inquiring to get it back to no avail.
The studio is the owner right or the producers? I mean who really paid for the model is the owner. Not sure if that’s the Roddenberry’s or some other person from back in the day. I didn’t realize there was a great search for the original small scale model.
Gene is, it was built for Gene at genes direction and he continually requested it back.
It aught to be as interesting to find out how it came to be where it is as it is to the inevitable detailed inspection/investigation of the model should be.
Ed:
According to Majel Barrett-Roddenberry, “That particular ship was a real model and it *was Gene’s *– he loaned it to someone and Gene forgot to get it back and it was never returned. It’s a shame because it’s a piece of stolen property and since it has historical value – it is quite priceless.”
The model was made by prop-maker Richard Datin Jr under the direction of Star Trek series creator Gene Roddenberry in the preproduction phase of the series before it even had a full series order. It preceded an 11-foot model that was used for most of the shots in the series. However, the 3-footer was used for the opening credits sequence and all but one of the shots of the Enterprise in the series’ pilot, because the 11-foot version was not ready in time for shooting. It was also used sporadically in other shots in later episodes, including one where it actually acted as a model of the Enterprise sitting on a table.
@CCMan1701A has a point. The model was built for production purposes, so it would have almost certainly been paid for - and therefore owned - by either by Desilu Studios or Norway Corporation (aka Norway Productions) depending on how the accounting was set up back in 1964. So unless Desilu/Norway sold or gifted the model to Roddenberry at some point, ie formally passed title to him, technically it would still be the property of the original corporate owner.
What I think quite possible though is that after TOS was cancelled Roddenberry took possession of a bunch of production assets nobody ever thought would have any value. Star Trek, after all, was a failed show. IIRC it was known that he used to do stuff like that, eg selling off merchandise to fans that - technically - he didn’t own. It’s just that nobody really cared too much back then.
Now as it so happens, Norway was actually Roddenberry’s production company, but technically that doesn’t matter, as there’s a legal distinction between a corporation you own on the one hand, and you as an individual on the other. That’s the whole purpose of setting up businesses as separate legal entities. So even if the model was originally purchased by and owned by Norway (as opposed to Desilu, which was sold to Paramount during the show’s run) then Norway (Roddenberry’s company) would still have needed to pass ownership to Gene Roddenberry the individual (via a gift or sale) in order for Majel Roddenberry’s statement that “it was Gene’s” to be strictly true. Of course, that would have been a cinch to do: Roddenberry, as owner/executive of Norway, simply sells or gives the model to Roddenberry the individual.
It’s possible that this happened, ie that Desilu or Norway sold or gifted the model to Roddenberry, but it’s also possible (especially if the model was owned by Desilu/Paramount) that he merely ended up with it, and that nobody questioned his legal right to it in the years since.
Personally, regardless of whether technically (ie from a legal or accounting perspective) Roddenberry did or did not own the model, I fully understand that Rod Roddenberry would be interested in recovering this seminal piece of Star Trek memorabilia, and I wouldn’t have any issues if it stayed in the Roddenberry family or was gifted to an institution like the Smithsonian.
CCMan1701A](https://startrek.website/u/CCMan1701A) has a point. The model was built for production purposes, so it would have almost certainly been paid for - and therefore owned - by either by Desilu Studios or Norway Corporation (aka Norway Productions) depending on how the accounting was set up back in 1964. So unless Desilu/Norway sold or gifted the model to Roddenberry at some point, ie formally passed title to him, technically it would still be the property of the original corporate owner.
No it wasn’t, it was genes and it sat on his desk before being loaned out to the studio who did not own it hence “loan”. There is no ambiguity, the Roddenberry family has made this very very clear.
What I think quite possible though is that after TOS was cancelled Roddenberry took possession of a bunch of production assets nobody ever thought would have any value. Star Trek, after all, was a failed show. IIRC it was known that he used to do stuff like that, eg selling off merchandise to fans that - technically - he didn’t own. It’s just that nobody really cared too much back then.
No the model was made before any production, again documented and linked for source.
Now as it so happens, Norway was actually Roddenberry’s production company, but technically that doesn’t matter, as there’s a legal distinction between a corporation you own on the one hand, and you as an individual on the other. That’s the whole purpose of setting up businesses as separate legal entities. So even if the model was originally purchased by and owned by Norway (as opposed to Desilu, which was sold to Paramount during the show’s run) then Norway (Roddenberry’s company) would still have needed to pass ownership to Gene Roddenberry the individual (via a gift or sale) in order for Majel Roddenberry’s statement that “it was Gene’s” to be strictly true. Of course, that would have been a cinch to do: Roddenberry, as owner/executive of Norway, simply sells or gives the model to Roddenberry the individual.
Again, no ambiguity you’re simply spinning tales when the book is already written.
It’s possible that this happened, ie that Desilu or Norway sold or gifted the model to Roddenberry, but it’s also possible (especially if the model was owned by Desilu/Paramount) that he merely ended up with it, and that nobody questioned his legal right to it in the years since.
Again it’s documented, you’re simply making things up.
Personally, regardless of whether technically (ie from a legal or accounting perspective) Roddenberry did or did not own the model, I fully understand that Rod Roddenberry would be interested in recovering this seminal piece of Star Trek memorabilia, and I wouldn’t have any issues if it stayed in the Roddenberry family or was gifted to an institution like the Smithsonian.
It was part of genes personal property, no studio ever owned it point blank period. It wasn’t even supposed to be used in filming and only was used because the 11ft model was not complete.
No it wasn’t, it was genes and it sat on his desk before being loaned out to the studio
It was loaned out in the run-up to Star Trek The Motion Picture. It was not loaned to the studio at the time of production of the original series. I’m talking about the ownership of the model back in 1964, not 1978/79.
No the model was made before any production, again documented and linked for source.
Filming of the first scene of “The Cage” took place on 24 or 27 November 1964 (accounts vary).
The 3-foot model was commissioned from Richard Datin on 4 November 1964. He received the blueprints on 7 or 8 November 1964. An in-progress version was presented to Roddenberry on 15 November 1964, with Roddenberry apparently requesting a number of changes, ie “more detail”. The model was delivered to Roddenberry on 14 December 1964 while “The Cage” was being filmed in Culver City.
Therefore the model was made during production, not before.
And even if the model was made before production of “The Cage” started, it doesn’t negate my point, which is that the model would almost certainly have been paid for, and therefore owned, by Desilu or Norway as it was clearly a production/pre-production expense. It was used consistently throughout the run of the show, and was even modified to more closely resemble the 11-foot model. I find it inconceivable that Roddenberry would have paid for it out of his own, personal, pocket.
Again it’s documented, you’re simply making things up.
I’m not making things up, I’m speculating based on what I know of business and Roddenberry himself. Roddenberry was known to appropriate items that were owned by the studio for his personal benefit, eg when he took film clippings after the show was cancelled and sold them through his private business Lincoln Enterprises.
Roddenberry merely stating “I’ve owned it since the Desilu days” in a letter doesn’t necessarily make it so. Note I’m not claiming he didn’t own it, I’m raising it as an academic possibility. And, as I said, I have no problems at all with the model going back to the Roddenberry family once it’s been recovered.
It was genes in 64 too. Gene paid, datin made it and by all accounts it was left with the studio until the studio Gene owned released it back to Gene for personal possession at the cancellation of tos.
Correct, the model was made preproduction, again that much is documented.
It was redesigned during production, the preproduction model is still the same model.
It was paid for by Gene and Norway as Norway presented it back to Gene commemoratively not desilu. And yet but all accounts he did.
This one is documented by the parties as at the very very very very least having been gifted to him commemoratively, no question about this model.
Again, third parties verify that the model of nothing else was absolutely genes possession having been gifted back to him as commemoration of the cancellation of tos. You shouldn’t have a problem with it, it’s theirs.
But I don’t have a problem with it. I’m actually very glad the model has been found cause it’s an absolutely iconic item, and hope it’s on its way to Rod Roddenberry.
The Facebook thread is claiming the model maker for Picard says that rod got in touch with the seller and it’s on its way back to the family to be restored.
If they want it or not fans will do it anyway, it’s in their best interest to get the police involved so fans meddling are committing obstruction.
Maybe? We don’t know that’s the point of investigation. Dude stole history and should be punished for it, why are you implying a theft over time is absolved?
Ed: should I point out that knowingly keeping stolen property is a crime as well so whomever has it right now is commiting a new and fun crime unless they immediately get into contact with the Roddenberry’s.
I’m serious when I ask this. Can you point me to a source saying it was stolen? I can’t find one.
Sure, roddennberry lent it to the motion picture set guys and it was never returned even with gene asking for it directly. No 0 one misplaces ≈50lbs of wood that’s 3ft long and has specific storage requirements.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/arstechnica.com/culture/2023/11/after-decades-lost-star-treks-original-enterprise-model-may-have-been-found/amp/
Ed: off work. And yes it was actually reported stolen.
https://www.therpf.com/forums/threads/red-alert-lost-3-ft-tos-enterprise-found.354596/
Ed: estimated value given current sales of available studio models. ≈3 million+
The studio is the owner right or the producers? I mean who really paid for the model is the owner. Not sure if that’s the Roddenberry’s or some other person from back in the day. I didn’t realize there was a great search for the original small scale model.
Cool that it might be found.
Gene is, it was built for Gene at genes direction and he continually requested it back.
It aught to be as interesting to find out how it came to be where it is as it is to the inevitable detailed inspection/investigation of the model should be.
Ed:
According to Majel Barrett-Roddenberry, “That particular ship was a real model and it *was Gene’s *– he loaned it to someone and Gene forgot to get it back and it was never returned. It’s a shame because it’s a piece of stolen property and since it has historical value – it is quite priceless.”
Ed:
https://redshirtsalwaysdie.com/2023/11/01/has-gene-roddenberys-missing-enterprise-been-found/
The model was made by prop-maker Richard Datin Jr under the direction of Star Trek series creator Gene Roddenberry in the preproduction phase of the series before it even had a full series order. It preceded an 11-foot model that was used for most of the shots in the series. However, the 3-footer was used for the opening credits sequence and all but one of the shots of the Enterprise in the series’ pilot, because the 11-foot version was not ready in time for shooting. It was also used sporadically in other shots in later episodes, including one where it actually acted as a model of the Enterprise sitting on a table.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/jerz.setonhill.edu/blog/2023/11/07/after-decades-lost-star-treks-original-enterprise-model-may-have-been-found/amp/
It was not at any time the studios, it was made for Gene before the series started.
@CCMan1701A has a point. The model was built for production purposes, so it would have almost certainly been paid for - and therefore owned - by either by Desilu Studios or Norway Corporation (aka Norway Productions) depending on how the accounting was set up back in 1964. So unless Desilu/Norway sold or gifted the model to Roddenberry at some point, ie formally passed title to him, technically it would still be the property of the original corporate owner.
What I think quite possible though is that after TOS was cancelled Roddenberry took possession of a bunch of production assets nobody ever thought would have any value. Star Trek, after all, was a failed show. IIRC it was known that he used to do stuff like that, eg selling off merchandise to fans that - technically - he didn’t own. It’s just that nobody really cared too much back then.
Now as it so happens, Norway was actually Roddenberry’s production company, but technically that doesn’t matter, as there’s a legal distinction between a corporation you own on the one hand, and you as an individual on the other. That’s the whole purpose of setting up businesses as separate legal entities. So even if the model was originally purchased by and owned by Norway (as opposed to Desilu, which was sold to Paramount during the show’s run) then Norway (Roddenberry’s company) would still have needed to pass ownership to Gene Roddenberry the individual (via a gift or sale) in order for Majel Roddenberry’s statement that “it was Gene’s” to be strictly true. Of course, that would have been a cinch to do: Roddenberry, as owner/executive of Norway, simply sells or gives the model to Roddenberry the individual.
It’s possible that this happened, ie that Desilu or Norway sold or gifted the model to Roddenberry, but it’s also possible (especially if the model was owned by Desilu/Paramount) that he merely ended up with it, and that nobody questioned his legal right to it in the years since.
Personally, regardless of whether technically (ie from a legal or accounting perspective) Roddenberry did or did not own the model, I fully understand that Rod Roddenberry would be interested in recovering this seminal piece of Star Trek memorabilia, and I wouldn’t have any issues if it stayed in the Roddenberry family or was gifted to an institution like the Smithsonian.
No it wasn’t, it was genes and it sat on his desk before being loaned out to the studio who did not own it hence “loan”. There is no ambiguity, the Roddenberry family has made this very very clear.
No the model was made before any production, again documented and linked for source.
Again, no ambiguity you’re simply spinning tales when the book is already written.
Again it’s documented, you’re simply making things up.
It was part of genes personal property, no studio ever owned it point blank period. It wasn’t even supposed to be used in filming and only was used because the 11ft model was not complete.
Ed: https://www.google.com/search?client=ms-android-att-us-rvc3&sca_esv=580377342&sxsrf=AM9HkKlf2a-SRCK4D22T3WcHjA_ayY9RdQ:1699418270564&q=roddenberry+to+katzenberg+1979&tbm=isch&source=lnms&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjvvN2yyrOCAxXSl4kEHZ8VCAoQ0pQJegQICBAB&biw=384&bih=702&dpr=2.81#imgrc=mzOYIqfMi4kuVM
It was loaned out in the run-up to Star Trek The Motion Picture. It was not loaned to the studio at the time of production of the original series. I’m talking about the ownership of the model back in 1964, not 1978/79.
Filming of the first scene of “The Cage” took place on 24 or 27 November 1964 (accounts vary).
The 3-foot model was commissioned from Richard Datin on 4 November 1964. He received the blueprints on 7 or 8 November 1964. An in-progress version was presented to Roddenberry on 15 November 1964, with Roddenberry apparently requesting a number of changes, ie “more detail”. The model was delivered to Roddenberry on 14 December 1964 while “The Cage” was being filmed in Culver City.
Therefore the model was made during production, not before.
Source for most of these dates: http://www.shawcomputing.net/resources/shaw/1701-33-inch.html
And even if the model was made before production of “The Cage” started, it doesn’t negate my point, which is that the model would almost certainly have been paid for, and therefore owned, by Desilu or Norway as it was clearly a production/pre-production expense. It was used consistently throughout the run of the show, and was even modified to more closely resemble the 11-foot model. I find it inconceivable that Roddenberry would have paid for it out of his own, personal, pocket.
I’m not making things up, I’m speculating based on what I know of business and Roddenberry himself. Roddenberry was known to appropriate items that were owned by the studio for his personal benefit, eg when he took film clippings after the show was cancelled and sold them through his private business Lincoln Enterprises.
Roddenberry merely stating “I’ve owned it since the Desilu days” in a letter doesn’t necessarily make it so. Note I’m not claiming he didn’t own it, I’m raising it as an academic possibility. And, as I said, I have no problems at all with the model going back to the Roddenberry family once it’s been recovered.
It was genes in 64 too. Gene paid, datin made it and by all accounts it was left with the studio until the studio Gene owned released it back to Gene for personal possession at the cancellation of tos.
Correct, the model was made preproduction, again that much is documented.
It was redesigned during production, the preproduction model is still the same model.
It was paid for by Gene and Norway as Norway presented it back to Gene commemoratively not desilu. And yet but all accounts he did.
This one is documented by the parties as at the very very very very least having been gifted to him commemoratively, no question about this model.
Again, third parties verify that the model of nothing else was absolutely genes possession having been gifted back to him as commemoration of the cancellation of tos. You shouldn’t have a problem with it, it’s theirs.
But I don’t have a problem with it. I’m actually very glad the model has been found cause it’s an absolutely iconic item, and hope it’s on its way to Rod Roddenberry.
The Facebook thread is claiming the model maker for Picard says that rod got in touch with the seller and it’s on its way back to the family to be restored.
https://m.facebook.com/groups/starshipmodeler/posts/10159422531316319
The Roddenberry’s what now?
The Roddenberry’s as in the family or foundation. You act like it’s an incomplete sentence and it isn’t.