Russia annexed territory from Ukraine, and was amassing troops for a further invasion. US intelligence said as much, Russia denied any such plans, then invaded, and ever since, hundreds of thousands of Russian and Ukrainian human beings on Ukrainian soil have been having their flesh shredded by high-powered weapons.
I’d say the fact that Russia:
Annexed quite a bit of Ukrainian territory before the war
Lied about its plans to invade, and
Has troops on the ground all over Ukraine
… shouldn’t really be facts in dispute, and to me those that adds up to “Russia is in the wrong” even without adding in any additional facts which might be more disputable. But you don’t see it that way?
No, I do not in the slightest; considering your analysis rather tellingly leaves out Amerika’s armament of fascists, said armed fascist pogroms against “ethnic Russians” in their territory, the endless violations of the Minsk agreements on the part of the West, and, oh yeah; Amerika literally blew up Nordstream to cut off Germany’s access to Russian gas.
So forgive me when I see you clutching pearls about “how many people injured in this ethnic violence” and think you’re literally so full of shit that when they give you your pre-burial enema, you’ll lose five and a half feet of height.
I’m really not trying to be combative with you brother. I’m not going to be friendly to the viewpoint you’re supporting, but I’m just a person like you – trying to make sense of the world and telling you how I see it. You’ve got no call to be getting insulting or cursing at me just because I’m disagreeing with you.
I think the fascist pogroms against ethnic Russians in Ukraine didn’t exist. The Russian government’s lies leading up to the invasion are well-documented, so it seems weird to argue that their claims of violence against ethnic Russians in Ukraine is unimpeachable evidence that it was happening. Do you have documentation or support for it happening? Do you have a ballpark for how many people were killed or injured in this violence?
I don’t know why you’re talking so mockingly about that question. The objective facts of what was happening are important.
This is accurate, yes; the neo-Nazi organization and their involvement in the 2014 revolution are real.
How does that justify Russia’s invasion? Are they defending Ukrainians against neo-Nazis, by bombing Ukrainian cities, and a Jewish leader is leading the Ukrainians in a war of aggression on Ukrainian soil against their well-intentioned de-Nazification effort? I’m not trying to be flip about something so serious, but it sounds like that’s what some other people in this thread are telling me. Would you agree with all of that, or how would you characterize it?
I think the real reason Russia invaded was because they could not tolerate Ukraine joining NATO. The US wouldn’t do anything different if this had happened in Canada during the cold war. Hell, they invaded Cuba for this. I’m sympathetic to Russia on this one because I do NOT want a unipolar world.
A Jewish leader does not mean that Ukraine is not dangerously far right wing. It’s like saying racism is defeated in the US because it had a black president. As for bombing Ukraine? Look up Ukraine’s cluster bomb usage in 2014-2022. When your soldiers are using weapons that are banned in most of the world on your own citizens, and your soldiers are wearing skulls on their uniforms, you surely have to ask if you’re the baddies?
Basically, I think NATO didn’t leave Russia much choice. And I don’t support fascist nations anyway. Sorry, no links this time. At the airport.
Nah, see, I’m not cordial with sealions at all. And that’s exactly what you’re doing. JAQ’ing off, I think they call it now. So we’re just gonna ignore all the shelling in the leadup to the 2020s? We’re just gonna ignore the GLOBAL HEADLINES that made? We’re just gonna ignore the 14,000 dropped bodies since 2014? We’re just gonna ignore all the Wolfsengels, Totenkopfs, and other assorted nazi paraphernalia while you hoist all those water buckets?
I can’t wait to see what you’ll ignore when those chickens finally come home to roost. Fuck out my inbox; you’re no longer welcome to a dialogue with me. It was funny, now you’re just sickening me.
Nothing says “My viewpoint’s on solid footing” like responding to clear factual questions with vigorous anger, insults, and angry refusal to continue the conversation.
But sure, it’s 100% up to you who you want to communicate with and how. I’ll not respond to you again if that’s your preference.
Of course they did; conveniently skipping over the why is literally the only reason Empire gets to sit back and pearl-clutch and breathlessly justify their literally terrorist movements against the EU’s access to resources. Exactly what I thought.
Russia annexed territory from Ukraine, and was amassing troops for a further invasion. US intelligence said as much, Russia denied any such plans, then invaded, and ever since, hundreds of thousands of Russian and Ukrainian human beings on Ukrainian soil have been having their flesh shredded by high-powered weapons.
I’d say the fact that Russia:
… shouldn’t really be facts in dispute, and to me those that adds up to “Russia is in the wrong” even without adding in any additional facts which might be more disputable. But you don’t see it that way?
No, I do not in the slightest; considering your analysis rather tellingly leaves out Amerika’s armament of fascists, said armed fascist pogroms against “ethnic Russians” in their territory, the endless violations of the Minsk agreements on the part of the West, and, oh yeah; Amerika literally blew up Nordstream to cut off Germany’s access to Russian gas.
So forgive me when I see you clutching pearls about “how many people injured in this ethnic violence” and think you’re literally so full of shit that when they give you your pre-burial enema, you’ll lose five and a half feet of height.
I’m really not trying to be combative with you brother. I’m not going to be friendly to the viewpoint you’re supporting, but I’m just a person like you – trying to make sense of the world and telling you how I see it. You’ve got no call to be getting insulting or cursing at me just because I’m disagreeing with you.
I think the fascist pogroms against ethnic Russians in Ukraine didn’t exist. The Russian government’s lies leading up to the invasion are well-documented, so it seems weird to argue that their claims of violence against ethnic Russians in Ukraine is unimpeachable evidence that it was happening. Do you have documentation or support for it happening? Do you have a ballpark for how many people were killed or injured in this violence?
I don’t know why you’re talking so mockingly about that question. The objective facts of what was happening are important.
Here’s russian propaganda from US Congress in 2018.
This is accurate, yes; the neo-Nazi organization and their involvement in the 2014 revolution are real.
How does that justify Russia’s invasion? Are they defending Ukrainians against neo-Nazis, by bombing Ukrainian cities, and a Jewish leader is leading the Ukrainians in a war of aggression on Ukrainian soil against their well-intentioned de-Nazification effort? I’m not trying to be flip about something so serious, but it sounds like that’s what some other people in this thread are telling me. Would you agree with all of that, or how would you characterize it?
I think the real reason Russia invaded was because they could not tolerate Ukraine joining NATO. The US wouldn’t do anything different if this had happened in Canada during the cold war. Hell, they invaded Cuba for this. I’m sympathetic to Russia on this one because I do NOT want a unipolar world.
A Jewish leader does not mean that Ukraine is not dangerously far right wing. It’s like saying racism is defeated in the US because it had a black president. As for bombing Ukraine? Look up Ukraine’s cluster bomb usage in 2014-2022. When your soldiers are using weapons that are banned in most of the world on your own citizens, and your soldiers are wearing skulls on their uniforms, you surely have to ask if you’re the baddies?
Basically, I think NATO didn’t leave Russia much choice. And I don’t support fascist nations anyway. Sorry, no links this time. At the airport.
Nah, see, I’m not cordial with sealions at all. And that’s exactly what you’re doing. JAQ’ing off, I think they call it now. So we’re just gonna ignore all the shelling in the leadup to the 2020s? We’re just gonna ignore the GLOBAL HEADLINES that made? We’re just gonna ignore the 14,000 dropped bodies since 2014? We’re just gonna ignore all the Wolfsengels, Totenkopfs, and other assorted nazi paraphernalia while you hoist all those water buckets?
I can’t wait to see what you’ll ignore when those chickens finally come home to roost. Fuck out my inbox; you’re no longer welcome to a dialogue with me. It was funny, now you’re just sickening me.
Nothing says “My viewpoint’s on solid footing” like responding to clear factual questions with vigorous anger, insults, and angry refusal to continue the conversation.
But sure, it’s 100% up to you who you want to communicate with and how. I’ll not respond to you again if that’s your preference.
How about response on the wall of info Redtea sent you? You didn’t commented any of that, signifying BCR is absolutely correct.
You conveniently skip over the reasons WHY Russia invaded.
Of course they did; conveniently skipping over the why is literally the only reason Empire gets to sit back and pearl-clutch and breathlessly justify their literally terrorist movements against the EU’s access to resources. Exactly what I thought.