porn sucks and I hate how pervasive it is in our society, especially on the internet. Any positive thing gets compared to porn, “foodporn”, “map porn”, etc., idk call me puritanical but I just find it gross.Also, I’m too young to know the answer to this, but what effect do we think internet porn has had on spawning a generation of incels? Idk what the pre-porn incel market was like.
Sex is great, intimacy is wonderful, but I don’t like porn.
Doesn’t mean it should be illegal tho
porn didn’t create any incels, people who have no sex education or ‘visualisation’ still have the social expectations of patriarchy. ‘internet porn’ largely coincides with the long-run alienation trends of the last decades, it’s a relatively unimportant part compared to economic outlooks and social isolation.
Good distinction, I think porn hones incels rather than creates them
idk, historically the alternatives might have been worse; would the ‘incel’ archetype be more likely to be violent with more available prostitution? it’s easy to imagine the stewing that goes on in shut-in incel’s minds but before we had as widespread porn, seeking out transactional sexual gratification would involve them interfacing vulnerable laborers.
Also, I’m too young to know the answer to this, but what effect do we think internet porn has had on spawning a generation of incels?
Some effect, but likely a negligible one. Most dudes of childrearing age, cause I’m not gonna sit here and act like they’re all fathers even if they sired a child-- most dudes won’t cop to it, but Gen Xers and boomers are where this started. They taught their boys a very specific way that offshot of the way they acted, even if what they SAID ran contrary. It’s what their fathers did that these incels want to emulate, not what they said.
I’m speaking from personal experience here; because I was once very much the same way. One bad relationship with a cheat had me misogynistic as fuck at one point in my life; and what I fell back on was all of the maladaptive, machismo-type bullshit my father lived by. “Never let a hoe fuck with your money”, “never trust a hoe with your feelings”, the whole nine-- and this experience is what kind of. I might verbally john on incels every so often, but I consider it genuinely tragic because they were maladaptively socialized for a society that is quite literally disintegrating in real time.
tl;dr I think it might tweak the dynamics of the incel/manosphere, but not in a way that’d undo the phenomenon. If anything, you’re gonna see more Andrew Tate-alikes who talk about porn and masturbation being mentally or spiritually crippling, but still keep up all the regressive misogyny if not stronger because dollars-to-donuts says they’ll just default to “blame women” for why the porn is gone. (Despite all their slagging of OnlyFans models.)
just watching movies from the 80s and 90s is enough to see how incel-type behaviour not only existed, but was somewhat normalized as “romantic protagonist” behaviour
You could probably argue that what makes the incel is the rupture from the rest of society not accepting that behavior from all men. The friction between men who want the benefits of the patriarchy without the downsides, and the rest of everyone, including those who want the end of the patriarchy as well as those who are okay with the status quo, is what creates incels as a specific group.
NoFap is already a reactionary thing and basically General Ripper from Dr. Strangelove except unironic.
I don’t think it’s a gen x or boomer thing, I think there have always been men we’d now identify as incels in patriarchal society, as it’s the logical end point of male sexual entitlement. The way we describe them has changed, but ideas like women not being able to be trusted with money or men not showing their feelings go back hundreds, if not thousands of years. I think what’s really changed is the internet has given those people somewhere to gather and jerk themselves off about how unfair it is, intensifying their persecution complexes and causing them to act out more.
I don’t think it’s a gen x or boomer thing, I think there have always been men we’d now identify as incels in patriarchal society, as it’s the logical end point of male sexual entitlement.
This is a pretty good macro-level way to look at it, I’m just trying to keep my lens fixed to recent history, y’know, likening/affixing the concept to ‘sources’ (even if not primary sources) that we all know and can identify immediately in our orbits. It’s absolutely the logical endpoint, but to me, at the point where it affects us all, I see it all starts again with each man that COULD have broken that cycle, but couldn’t even be incentivized to.
Cause there WERE some that actually tried NOT to; I’ve seen them, I’ve met them, but I’ve also seen their kids just totally go sides-up from proper teaching and acting to sink into this incel shit because of the crowd the kid keeps-- and the cycle in their bloodline starts again with the kid that went sideways, y’know?
Ah, I see what you mean, I’d misinterpreted you as saying the wider phenomenon only started with genx/boomers. Definitely agree with everything you’ve said, then.
The prevalence of the male incel identity coincides with sexual harassment becoming less socially acceptable.
That’s the main part of it. It’s the shadow of lingering social misogyny trying to reassert itself through the very real phemenons of alienation and loneliness.
Doesn’t mean it should be illegal tho
I would at least ban porn networks, since they are nothing more than socially accepted pimping.
Also, I’m too young to know the answer to this, but what effect do we think internet porn has had on spawning a generation of incels? Idk what the pre-porn incel market was like.
idk, I think it’s hard to separate the effects of internet porn from the effects of the internet in general. i think regular ol’ internet forums (some of which host porn but not necessarily as the main focus) are the biggest factor in the proliferation of “incel” mindsets / identities. you know, before the internet if you were somebody who can’t get laid, you’d maybe talk to your friends about it and get encouragement or advice, or talk to family, or just be sad basically. the chances of you independently coming to the conclusion that there’s something about you that makes you completely unlovable (maybe even to absurdly specific degrees, such as that you will never be able to get laid because your wrists are too narrow) and that the problem will never ever get better and that all women are unthinking evil creatures who want unlovable men like you to die so they never have to be reminded that anyone but
exists… are pretty slim. nobody comes up with those kinds of ideas on their own, that requires insular groups that take time feeding each other’s frustrations and insecurities and slowly building up a mythology. if you dont have access to the internet, you’re going to have to discuss your difficult love life with someone who can get laid. but incel internet forums provide an extremely unhealthy outlet for those frustrations that don’t involve ever talking to someone who can get laid.I also don’t think internet porn is significantly more harmful than the good ol’ magazines and VHS tapes and whatever that we had before. though, one way in that it is obviously more harmful is in the sheer availability. if you’ve got a dirty magazine you’ve got, you know, one magazine of porn. if you’ve got a smartphone you’ve got more porn than you could ever desire to look at in a hundred lifetimes. and if you’re a kid, you at least have to hide a dirty magazine. teens these days have basically no risk of being caught being addicted to (even extremely niche) pornography. i think that’s gonna be the biggest effect of internet porn for the next few generations. when millennials (and anyone older) were growing up, their experience with porn, if any, was maybe a few dirty magazines where they could look at some tits. now kids are growing up totally addicted to enormous amounts of wild, hardcore porn.
i generally agree with you that porn is bad. by volume, anyway. like 99.999% of all porn is bad for a wide variety of reasons. I think it’s possible to make porn ethically. Very difficult unless there are no humans involved (like with drawings or pure writing), and even then it’s still possible to do it unethically (sexualizing children still sucks even if there are no real kids involved, for example)
I do think that the 99.999% of porn I’m talking about should be illegal, though.
I’m so extremely glad I didn’t get a smartphone until after I started dating
in a utopian vision of communism porn absolutely would not exist. far from the first thing on the list (i agree making it illegal under current conditions as a lone act would be useless and probably regressive) but if we take the abolition of exploitation seriously it’s gotta go
Isn’t this also how they’re going to criminalise being LGBTQ online? Ban porn and also define being visibly not straight as inherently pornographic?
Don’t they also talk about death penalties for child abuse, ie the endpoint of all the frothing at the mouth about every LGBTQ person being a groomer?
lol coomers or whatever but this shit is pretty spooky
This is the actual end goal. Force the entire LGBT community into the closet.
Damn that’s crazy.
But imagine for a second that we had an internet where credit card handlers and big tech companies were the deciding factor if NSFW content could be allowed on an internet platform and they started hammering down on any website big enough in order to block pornographic or illustrated erotic content on them. That would be horrible. Thank god Biden won’t let that happen
wait hold on a second I’m being informed that–
Sorry but in a communist world, porn would be done away with nobody would have to sell their body or their body-having-sex-as-content in order to put food on the table, pay rent, etc. You gotta really consider how many people in that industry are exhibitionist, how many are escaping bad situations at home, or are groomed by society to see this as an acceptable form of labor, or are being exploited in destructive manners with zero recourse, no better than forced labor. Hypersexuality in teenagers and adults can be a response to domestic violence and abuse, it can be a dissociative way of dealing with unpleasant feelings and stress, and porn consumption, and production can take advantage of that; it also makes it difficult to distinguish between puberty driven desires and societal pressure. Porn can also be the end result of trafficking like European, and specifically Eastern European pornographic rings that are the source of human trafficking.
Feminists have been debating about the inherent oppressive conditions of sex under a patriarchal and capitalist world. We have to include that into the analysis of the pornographic industry. If the industry was to be tolerated, it would have to be with stringent measures for entry, licensing, testing, and performance procedures that would basically legislate it out of existence.
Yes, an exceptionally high percentage of sex workers today are wage slaves and worse, coercion is the norm today. But to reduce all porn production to ‘unacceptable labor’ is not a reasonable conclusion either.
Free of financial coercion, some non-negligible amount of people would still choose to do sex work. Sexuality is a normal, healthy, human trait, and there are plenty healthy ways to engage with it.
we don’t live in a communist world and the movement to legislate-it-out-of-existence from the right without solving any of the economic/social cleavages that put people into sex work is just going to escalate the criminal character & make it more dangerous for workers
i think in the idyllic after-the-revolution there wouldn’t even be a demand for porn production: with the elimination of IP, just go around and obtain consent forms from whichever former performers don’t mind it being out there, & there’d instantly be a huger library of available pornography than anyone could countenance under capitalism. the industry thrives on artificial scarcity and ephemeral availability, but there’s nothing fundamentally new
This is how I see it. The best outlook to end the adult entertainment industry’s abuses isn’t “ban porn,” but rather, it’s “make it redundant by ensuring basic human rights so people do not feel a need to go down that route.”
This assumes that absolutely no one would choose to film themselves having sex and distribute that
But would a communist utopia have horny fanart of Sonic the Hedgehog
It’s funny, cause I actually legitimately wonder about this sort of thing. A shocking amount of people write/draw NSFW stuff not out of any kind of profit motive, but just because they want to.
I guess when people here equate porn with the “adult entertainment industry” but there’s a whole vast ocean of porn beyond adult films
I used to write some erotica short stories simply out of fun. If i could draw anything, I would. Sex outside of 2 partner intercourse will always be a thing that appeals to people, whether or not it’s incels or just regular people.
Sometimes we have to keep in mind that many activities that have become destructive due to commodification don’t inherently have to be severely harmful. I don’t see why, for example, even in a car free public transportation utopia there shouldn’t be any motorsports for example.
the neo NKVD should raid peoples houses at 3am to take away their sonic inflation art
I think it’s more exciting to imagine a communist dystopia where horny fanart and literature is banned.
A lot of “x wouldn’t exist under communism discourse” seems to stem from x thing being a modern invention. Communist writers didn’t write about porn because filmed porn didn’t really exist until the late 1960s. Movies and television as we know it didn’t exist before the late 1960s either.
What you wrote also applies to acting and film making in general. You could substitute “pornography” with “movies and television” and it would be effectively just as true. Are there actors who don’t like to act but do it anyways because they are promised fame and fortune? Do people who have suffered traumatic events watch films and television to dissociate from their lives? Have the producers of hollywood movies and television engaged in acts of human trafficking? Have feminists debated the inherent oppressive conditions of film production, acting, television and movies under a patriarchal and capitalist world? The answer to all of these questions is yes but we wouldn’t say that communism will legislate movies and television out of existence.
more right than you think because the correct view is that most of american culture and media, like porn, is a societal ill and has a net effect of harm. i think your direct comparison is a bit vulgar though
To clarify, my point is that the exploitative conditions exist in all forms of media creation under capitalism. Analysis is not justification. The point is to remove the exploitative elements from media creation. Which is not only accomplished through regulation, but more importantly through restructuring the modes of production by eliminating the existence of profit.
I don’t think that people will stop filming sex during communism, just as I don’t think that people will stop making films or television. I do think people will probably watch any media less however because people tend to over consume all type of media under capitalism as a form of escapism.
What you wrote also applies to acting and film making in general. You could substitute “pornography” with “movies and television” and it would be effectively just as true. Are there actors who don’t like to act but do it anyways because they are promised fame and fortune? Do people who have suffered traumatic events watch films and television to dissociate from their lives? Have the producers of hollywood movies and television engaged in acts of human trafficking? Have feminists debated the inherent oppressive conditions of film production, acting, television and movies under a patriarchal and capitalist world? The answer to all of these questions is yes but we wouldn’t say that communism will legislate movies and television out of existence.
bruh
Death to America
I’m sorry, no. Films and movies have, to some extent, artistic merit. I think the discourse in a communist world would be “what is pornographic” and what has “artistic value”; there’s terrible movies and great porn right now so that’d make for an interesting discourse - the distinction would probably reside on performed sex scenes vs. penetrative acts. But on the concept of comparison, let’s look at analogous professions like “porn star” and “prostitute” (appropriate and respectful term being sex worker). Grab a list of zip codes in this country and divided by median income. If you visited each one and offered random man or woman money in exchange for sex, how likely is it that those in higher income areas would say yes? What would they agree to? Now, widen your search and make your way down each zip code, the chances you “convince” someone increases. Imperialist white supremacist patriarchal capitalist societies create ethnic and low-income enclaves that allow for prostitution and exploitation in a variety of ways. Patriarchal systems generate sexual exploitation. Capitalist societies maintain that exploitation under class hierarchal relations and labor exploitation. Now think of this at the global scale. The existence of an industry that generate pornographic or sexually explicit interactions between client and worker, necessitate a constant supply of bodies; specially because Patriarchal values has pedophilic tendencies. I think it’s also worth noting that current, and mainstream, pornsites try to filter, to some extent, major abuses; but even mindgeek/pornhub has run into legal issues due to age and model verification systems, with revenge, exploitative, and CSA uploaded to their site, not to mention they are an exploitative monopoly that control major distribution platforms. One of the arguments that pro-porn proponents are currently making is that banning pornhub or forcing them to store a license, drives users to websites that are not rated, do not follow certain policies, and are part of the “dark web”; where young adults can be exposed to unmoderated pornographic material.
I don’t think we’d ever reach a communist utopia, specially with climate change breathing down our necks, but I do think that communist countries are following good principles when they try to legislate away certain industries and try to raise the standard of living for exploited populations.
What would that mean for personal sexual relationships? I think, if anything, adults might become freer from current sexual mores and would rely less on explicit pornographic material to compensate.
Do people who have suffered traumatic events watch films and television to dissociate from their lives?
Not so fun fact, yes actually folks that suffer from high anxiety will often watch the same shows this process is comforting, yes, but maladaptive.
The more that you write, the more that you are revealing that you have ulterior motives for the things that you are saying. You wrote that communism will have an excessive amount of legislation. (It won’t) You wrote that you think that communism is an unreachable utopia. (It isn’t) Now you are saying that pornographic media must have “artistic value”. (It shouldn’t) A discussion about whether media should exist on the merits of “artistic value” is not interesting discourse, it is incredibly reactionary. When you say that porn may only be allowed to exist if you deem to have artistic merit, you are admitting that you are motivated by reactionary beliefs.
Banning media on the idea that it lacked artistic merit and would therefore harm society was a key principle of Nazi Germany. In Nazi Germany, media that was considered to be “d*generate” was censored or banned. Nazis censored paintings, music, films, and plays under the premise that lacking what they deemed “artistic value” would lead German society to being influenced by Jews and Communists. This is the same reason that Republicans (and even Democrats) want to ban pornography today. Reactionaries want to ban the portrayal of sexual fantasies in media as the first step towards banning those same sexual fantasies in real life. Reactionaries don’t want porn to exist because they don’t want LGBT people to exist and they don’t want sexual freedom to exist. The reactionary wants to ban pornography so that sex is more oppressive.
Artistic merit is not objective. Neither you or I should judge which media should exist based on the grounds of lacking “artistic value”. I do not see any reason why a communist society would not have consenting adults who want to film their sexual acts and then want other consenting adults to watch it.
Banning media on the idea that it lacked artistic merit and would therefore harm society was a key principle of Nazi Germany. In Nazi Germany, media that was considered to be “d*generate” was censored or banned. Nazis censored paintings, music, films, and plays under the premise that lacking what they deemed “artistic value” would lead German society to being influenced by Jews and Communists.
I did not say porn would be banned. I said that the porn industry would be legislated away due to the tight regulations. When I talked about the hypothetical communist world, I referred to the discourse of what falls in the pornographic and in the artistic. In my initial post, I accounted for exhibitionists and later discussed kinks. Porn stars often talk about polyamory, swinging, and kinks related to exhibitionism. But that’s a minority compared to the percentage of individuals doing porn for exploitative reasons. Capitalist labor relations is inherently exploitative, this is not a matter of debate, not in communist discussions.
In writing about this topic, I’ve had in my mind so much violent and demeaning porn that objectifies and encourages violence against women, but hide behind “kinks” or “rough play”. There was a recent article about an isolated tribe getting access to the internet and young adult males starting to mimic violent sexual acts.
Choking, which has increased in popularity can cause brain damage, and can edge the line of a consensual and nonconsensual act. It is depicted so often, in even the most “vanilla” of porn. Young girls in high school and college are being choked with often zero recourse.
Reactionaries want to ban the portrayal of sexual fantasies in media as the first step towards banning those same sexual fantasies in real life. Reactionaries don’t want porn to exist because they don’t want LGBT people to exist and they don’t want sexual freedom to exist. The reactionary wants to ban pornography so that sex is more oppressive.
This is the argument that made me, need to, respond. This is naively liberal and backwards. Reactionaries think banning sexual fantasies and representation will make LGBTQ people go away, because they think the media is the root cause, and not an expression of, LGBTQ people’s existence. Clearly, you and I both know that’s not true, correct? LGBTQ people have existed for as long as there has been humans. Media representation can be correlated to higher acceptance and human right protections, but that’s clearly not always the case. At least not with the current backlash.
That said, considering there is vile and objectionable porn that represents LGBTQ people in horrible ways. I’m thinking here of porn that refers to transgender women with slurs or “she-males” or encourages “chaser” behavior, seeing people as objects or ways to satisfy a “kink”. Do not praise the master’s chains just because they are rainbow colored. The objectification, exploitation and sexual violence that occurs, and is promoted, by pornography is worthy of analyzing, criticizing, and possibly doing away with it.
You wrote that communism will have an excessive amount of legislation. (It won’t) You wrote that you think that communism is an unreachable utopia. (It isn’t) Now you are saying that pornographic media must have “artistic value”. (It shouldn’t) A discussion about whether media should exist on the merits of “artistic value” is not interesting discourse, it is incredibly reactionary.
I didn’t say excessive bureaucratic legislation. I referred to the idea of having tight controls and regulations that prevent the profitable exploitation of models. This would essentially “do away” with the porn industry as it exists.
You wrote that you think that communism is an unreachable utopia. (It isn’t)
Whether it is or isn’t, is a matter of debate not just here, but in international communist circles. I am accounting for my pessimistic outlook on the consequences of climate change, and the possible consequences of multipolarity that is developing right now. Multipolarity often ends in war.
Now you are saying that pornographic media must have “artistic value”. (It shouldn’t) A discussion about whether media should exist on the merits of “artistic value” is not interesting discourse, it is incredibly reactionary.
I make art in my spare time. I engage in drawing, painting, photography, and video making. I engage with the naked figure all the time. I actually think this is an interesting discussion to have, and not just an argument of “bare minimum threshold” to pass. I am not saying this as a throw-away sentence, or to pass judgment. This is worth engaging with, defining, and acting on. I do come at it from a communist worldview. So I’m a bit upset not to be given the benefit of the doubt here.
Thank you for your input by the way, your comments made me think.
Engels did write about how prostitution (and cuckoldry) wouldn’t exist under communism. The principle seems similar here.
I wouldn’t equate prostitution with porn production. Prostitution implies an exchange of money. Porn can be produced without money.
In the same work by Engels that you are referencing, he is writing about abolition of the family unit. He says that the family unit and monogamy exists because women are dependent on men under patriarchy and monogamy gives men power over women. Engels says that without patriarchy, children will be raised by the community rather than by individual families.
Our sexual love differs essentially from the simple sexual desire, the Eros, of the ancients. In the first place, it assumes that the person loved returns the love; to this extent the woman is on an equal footing with the man, whereas in the Eros of antiquity she was often not even asked. Secondly, our sexual love has a degree of intensity and duration which makes both lovers feel that non-possession and separation are a great, if not the greatest, calamity; to possess one another, they risk high stakes, even life itself. In the ancient world this happened only, if at all, in adultery. And, finally, there arises a new moral standard in the judgment of a sexual relationship. We do not only ask, was it within or outside marriage? But also, did it spring from love and reciprocated love or not? Of course, this new standard has fared no better in feudal or bourgeois practice than all the other standards of morality – it is ignored. But neither does it fare any worse. It is recognized just as much as they are – in theory, on paper. And for the present it cannot ask anything more.
Engels says that without the confines of monogamous marriage and the family unit, with women having equal footing in society, people are free to have sex for the purpose of love. I wouldn’t say that people are limited to having sex for the purpose of love. It also doesn’t mention filming the sex. It’s also very heteronormative, but that is something else. The point of Engel’s writing is that he’s saying ending the family unit will give people, particularly women, more sexual freedom. It’s not about enforcing heterosexuality or monogamy or limiting sex.
Editting my post to say that it’s very weird that you think the word “cuckold” is related to porn. Engels used the word cuckold in the writing to describe an abusive husband whose wife decided to cheat on him. Not related to porn at all. Engels just sort of implies that adultery will be less likely in the future because women will have economic independence, leave men instead of cheating.
Engels just sort of implies that adultery will be less likely in the future because women will have economic independence, leave men instead of cheating.
That’s why I mention it. Wouldn’t there be a lot less women getting into porn if they were economically independent?
What we can now conjecture about the way in which sexual relations will be ordered after the impending overthrow of capitalist production is mainly of a negative character, limited for the most part to what will disappear. But what will there be new? That will be answered when a new generation has grown up: a generation of men who never in their lives have known what it is to buy a woman’s surrender with money or any other social instrument of power; a generation of women who have never known what it is to give themselves to a man from any other considerations than real love, or to refuse to give themselves to their lover from fear of the economic consequences. When these people are in the world, they will care precious little what anybody today thinks they ought to do; they will make their own practice and their corresponding public opinion about the practice of each individual – and that will be the end of it.
Engels says in the conclusion of the writing that we don’t really know what sex will look like after the end of capitalism and I think I agree. He says that after men stop paying for sex and woman are able to choose a sexual partner for reasons other than economic dependence, then there will be more sexual freedom. “they will care precious little what anybody today thinks they ought to do; they will make their own practice” He says that the new sexual freedom will create new sexual practices.
I think we can’t really say whether it will lead to more or less pornography. Maybe without economic pressures of capitalism, people will feel more free to create pornography for pleasure. Maybe without social stigma against sex, people will feel that they can create pornography without being socially outcast. Currently many people film themselves doing sexual acts for the purposes of “sexting”. In the future, people will invent new ways of doing sexual acts that we do not currently understand. Just 2 generations ago, sexting was an unimaginable concept, 2 generations from now will have sexual norms that we don’t understand currently. However, I don’t think people will stop filming sexual acts.
Solid analysis. Thanks for this exchange.
I remember reading that in Meiji Japan Marxist writers were often published in homo erotic magazines.
Sometimes I wish old school porn still existed so I could try do crazy stuff like that. I’m insanely uncomfortable around naked people but in my head I like to believe I could be this cool leftist porn guy providing the people with smut and class consciousness
You should watch Minx.
What’s that?
It’s a fictional comedy show on showtime set in the 70s. This feminist writer is trying to get her Feminist theory magazine published, and a sleazy porn publisher convinces her to publish a porn magazine for women, with feminist articles. It’s funny, they name drop a lot of good writers, and it has a lot of heart.
Holy shit that sounds awesome thanks
Starting a people’s porn reform campaign under the slogan “Exhibition for the Exhibitionists”
Democrats have been on board with bans on porn for the most part. Both parties are morality police under the guise of “protect the kids”.
Love that PornHub just isn’t able to load in several states without a VPN.
are they though? they haven’t been very active about it but that’s true of every red-state legislation they don’t have large enough minorities to disrupt.
I haven’t looked at this story for a while, and this is just the first link I saw, but California is (was?) looking at one of these age verification laws. Calmatters.org
wow, that’s really surprising, California should be the stronghold of the porn lobby, somebody forgot to grease some palms damn
Based uniparty
This! This will happen the next time a Republican POTUS gets elected. Project 2025 will most definitely turn into 2029 which will turn into 2033 and so and so on. Which I’m begging Dems to whip up their own Project 2025 to make sure that other one doesn’t happen.
If the Democrats did a project 2025, it would either not exist or be near identical to the Republican one lmao
Project 2025 will most definitely turn into 2029 which will turn into 2033 and so and so on.
Just keep voting blue guys. Don’t worry about the genocide, police brutality, asylum ban, banning apps because people on it support Palestine etc. No matter how bad Biden is, project 2025+4+4+4+4+4 is worse
This other party is an existential threat, but our best bet at defeating them is to just keep hitting the snooze button.
I’m gonna start using this, thanks comrade
It’s so convenient that they found a way to shift off of “trump bad”.
When people like us confronted them with “what will you screech about once trump is dead?” They found the perfect boogyman. A nebulous collection of ideas the Republicans have been open about for 50+ years. At least this one has a cute name!
I guess on the one hand, this is closer to how messaging should work, but alas, they will just scaremonger and fundraise off it until we slow walk into fascism.
slow walk into fascism? we’re not there yet?
We totally are. It’s just that people with comfortable lives are starting to feel the effects.
Project 2025 + 4n
makes for a solid clapback to lib hysteria every election year. The libs would probably coopt it in ironically within a few months
This! This will happen
Oh look, a
user
You can tell because they’ve been trying to scare everybody with project 2025 for a year but if you ask them what their plan is if they win they’ll just look at you confused and say they aren’t Trump.
but if you ask them what their plan is if they win
Brunch, duh
Asking for help: I am selling people boxes. When they ask what’s inside, I tell them that it is not full of live hornets (it might be though).
Can anyone explain why people aren’t buying these?
I mean, multiple Democrat mainstay organizations were caught out funding the think tank behind 2025; so I’m gonna put my chips on “identical to the Republican one”.
Yeah, the “progressive”-libs will do nothing/scold you to vote harder while the Dems calling shots just go ahead and implement the exact same plan.
Edit: it’s good cop, bad cop, and even worse cop. Worst thing is - they’re all cops.
Relevant DNCoomerism
What are we, a bunch of
asiansmuslismasians??Dems can’t just call shit bad without resorting to state department propaganda tropes
tfw no porn on the internet
the box of porn in the woods beckonsIf you start believing in them the porn fae will return to the mortal realm and leave a copy of juggs in the woods.
I like Madeline Pendleton’s take on Project 2025. It’s just everything The Heritage Foundation has been pushing for for decades, but most people don’t know about The Heritage Foundation, so it seems like it’s out of nowhere. It’s nothing out of the ordinary or special for Republicans.
Go ahead and ban it, I already got plans drawn up for porn speakeasies with private booths for gooners to goon all day in. Going to be $69 an hour, I’m going to be fucking rich and it’ll be perfect.
I’ll be your most loyal customer — I’ve got a thing for getting fucked in every way, including financially!
/altjoke A “porn speakeasy”? Surely that would be a “moaneasy”, right?
Once again, Republican states are already doing this and Biden has done nothing about it,
without access to pornography i wouldve never discovered the joy of prostate stimulation, so it must be a moral good
Ridin’Goonin’ with BidenBiden locks down the coomer vote
Yeah man lemme just turn into a fucking nazi and endorse genocide because you’re worried you won’t be allowed to honk off otherwise
God I hate it when the astroturf says “yall”.
