Link to the paper in Science: Ancestry-inclusive dog genomics challenges popular breed stereotypes.
Environment and socialization remain the largest determining factor.
Unsurprisingly, most stereotypes about dog breeds are pseudoscience that come from the eugenics movement. In particular, “popular knowledge” around pitbulls and bulldogs is just thinly veiled racism.
interview on the study from the verge: https://www.theverge.com/2022/4/28/23043508/dog-breed-behavior-genetics-study-stereotypes
The research did find some genes associated with traits like human sociability and howling frequency. But overall, only around 9 percent of dog behavior was explained by breed.
“Dogs are individuals,” said Marjie Alonso, a study author and executive director of the International Association of Animal Behavior Consultants. “What a dog looks like is not really going to tell you what the dog acts like.”
Edit: modern “purebred” breeding literally came from eugenicists, that’s why this old political cartoon even exists. Documentary on pedigree dogs and their many issues: https://vimeo.com/166015460
Awesome, I guess I can just own a husky in my apartment just like a chihuahua and not worry about it, because its breed characteristics of being high energy and needing physical exercise (even compared to similar sized dogs) were just make believe! I guess retrievers being gentle, shiba inus being willful, and pitbulls having strong latching tendencies is all just a collective delusion.
Dog breed characteristics are absolutely real, and even considering them comparable to human genetic behaviors is basically doing race science believers’ work for them. “Behaviors” among humans are completely different than an instinct driven animal like a dog, which is why evopsych and race science shit are trash science.
Looking at the actual study, the problems that cause the obviously bogus result are:
- They are going by survey responses. I can’t even start to explain how this does nothing except aggregate beliefs. Who is gonna be like “oh yeah my sweet baby pitbull Cupcakes is extremely aggressive to other dogs and children and exhibits strong latching instinct!”
- Dangerous dog breeds often attack instinctually in ways that are completely different than their socialized nature. If you say your dog has never done something, that’s not the same as saying the dog doesn’t have a tendency towards it.
- They had to further muddle the data by trying to highlight a linear correspondence between breed DNA and reliability of that behavior. That’s not how DNA works. For example, Corgi visual phenotypes are fairly dominant so breeding them with anything else will be guaranteed to look more like a Corgi. If you assume behavior is determined by DNA, the same idea applies.
If you want to insultingly compare this to human eugenic atrocities, then try going over to eastern Europe and do a survey of 20,000 people on what behaviors they’ve observed from different groups of people. Let me know how great the survey approach turns out there.
I think where this more likely applies is how every dog breed has a laundry list of ultraspecific behavioral tendencies that really tend to be nonsense in the same way wine tasting notes are often silly. They’re way too specific and determined by limited subjective experience and bias. But you can absolutely identify broad characteristics among breeds.
They are going by survey responses. I can’t even start to explain how this does nothing except aggregate beliefs.
damning
Look over the actual paper, that comment is not coherent. Also from an 8 day old account, so they’re probably one of those dweebs who keeps getting banned for being insufferable.
Look over the actual paper, that comment is not coherent
fta: “The study analyzed survey responses from nearly 20,000 dog owners about their dog’s behavior”
Also from an 8 day old account, so they’re probably one of those dweebs who keeps getting banned for being insufferable.
I’m guessing you’ve never been doxxed by chuds if you think rotating accounts is inherently sus
I kinda agree that written survey stuff is pretty weak. But like everything else in our stupid lives, dog breeds have somehow become political. And people absolutely make snap judgements about breeds and their owners based on racist and classist assumptions. I would generally agree with a study that found training/upbringing has a stronger effect on breed behavior than genetics because otherwise there wouldn’t be a whole subculture around rehabilitating dog rescues.
:morshupls:
The bazinga is off the charts in this one.
you want to insultingly compare this to human eugenic atrocities
look up the history of where the dog breeds you care so much about came from :)
you can absolutely identify broad characteristics among breeds
the study speaks to this. it is present, but extremely limited. clearest example was hounds barking more and border collies being a bit more proficient at learning commands.
The bazinga is off the charts in this one.
You posted a science article to c/science. It’s not “bazinga” to criticize shitty (or in this case, poorly messaged) scientific research in a science comm.
the study speaks to this. it is present, but extremely limited. clearest example was hounds barking more and border collies being a bit more proficient at learning commands.
You and I both know that the main use of this study in discourse will be over pitbulls, whether they exhibit breed specific aggression and attack behavior (latching, etc.), and whether they overall pose a danger to own as a pet.
Interesting you shift to pitbulls. That topic has been covered in other threads. Pitbulls are fine and the fear around them is largely based in racism.
example on how connected “dog breeds” and eugenics are:
https://terriermandotcom.blogspot.com/2008/12/eugenics-man-at-kennel-club.html
I didn’t shift. I just fully understand that there’s exactly one breed over which breed characteristics is a hot button issue, and so I’m just anticipating the discursive application of these results.
example on how connected “dog breeds” and eugenics are:
Whether or not eugenicists were involved in early dog breeding (which, if you look at breeds like German shepherds or pugs, is obviously evil) has no relevance whatsoever on the existence of dog breed behavioral characteristics.
Pitbulls are fine and the fear around them is largely based in racism.
The only people I’ve known with poorly socialized pitbulls have been white rednecks bragging about how their huntin pit needed a train chain to be kept away from other dogs at home. The only ones with well socialized pits who I still saw maul a kid were white suburban people. The danger from pitbulls is empirical, and trying to paint your opponents as bigoted is a despicable exploitation of racial tension for rhetorical purpose. And one that’s totally unnecessary given that the data is right there.
To preface, I owned rottweilers, but I would never trust a pit bull. “That’s anecdotal” yes it is. I’m staying the hell away from those fuckers. I don’t know if it’s genetic, or that pit bull owners are just fucked in the head, or can’t take care of dogs responsibly, or something else entirely, but a fact is that most deathly incidents happen with pit bulls.
If all dogs can be aggressive than most people still shouldn’t own large dogs because most people can’t train a dog worth shit. Everyone and their mother in my neighborhood owns a big ass pit mix which is fine except for the fact that they freak out anytime they see another dog on a walk because they’re not trained. My in laws used to have a great pyrennes that they refused to train until it almost took someone’s hand off. An untrained dachshund is a menace but any dog that you can pick up when it’s trying to attack the neighbors’ dogs isn’t really a problem. But that’s just me with a thing about big dogs because one took a piece out of my ear as a kid
Like my college friend has a lab mix rescue that’s insane and they refuse to acknowledge it. They live in a standard apartment building and because of unfortunate circumstances someone’s chihuahua walked out into the hallway as their dog passed their door and it actually picked it up and hat it in it’s mouth. That’s fucking horrifying. Don’t own these dogs if you can’t take care of them and can’t take care of the safety of other people around you. Cops use attack dogs for a reason
It’s a good thing everyone is working 40+ hours a day and has no leisure time in which they could do something like train a dog.
Then maybe they shouldn’t own an animal capable of maiming or killing people.
Then maybe they shouldn’t own an animal
capable of maiming or killing people.:vegan-seitan: :inshallah-script:
:shocked-pikachu: whaaaaaaaaat???
ive always suspected this, its just socially acceptable to be racist about animals who can’t punch you in the mouth
“We at Hexbear.net present to you the long awaited sequel to the outdoor cat struggle session.”
White people let go of eugenics challenge (IMPOSSIBLE)
The research did find some genes associated with traits like human sociability and howling frequency.
Oh cool, that last part was the only even slight counter-argument I have. There’s a youtube channel I like that’s just a dog groomer grooming dogs, and the most reliable thing to expect is that if she’s grooming a Husky, it’ll start howling like mad.
All other dog breed stereotypes being bullshit is something I can easily accept.
