Discord👏Is👏Not👏A👏Replacement👏For👏 Websites
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I often revere the people who can do smart shit.
I really shouldn’t. Using discord is dumb. Using discord for a switch emulator, while Nintendos lawyers are waking around with their cocks out is stupid.
I’ve said this recently, but intelligence is domain specific. People just being generally “smart” is not a thing people should really care about.
Yep, I’ve known specialists that are extremely good at their job but when you hear them talk about other stuff you sometimes wonder how they manage to tie their shoes in the morning.
It’s not a matter of intelligence, these people just have different priorities.
If their priority is to make a nintendo emulator, they have to think about keeping their lines of communication secure against corporate legal threats, because those lines of communication are basically what software development is.
Sure, but they also need to be on a platform that people actually use. I agree that there are lots of reasons against Discord, but my point is, they didn’t choose Discord because of a lack of intelligence.
Have you considered that the person you consider smart is focusing all their brain power on their projects and they don’t have time to set up and maintain a website? That’s what discord is for, an easy, quick and dirty community aggregate
While there’s truth in your words, there are alternatives that require little effort. Even a IRC channel would have been better.
Discord is not only a terrible bad application, it’s the equivalent of writing posts on medium. If and when they decide to gatekeep your content, there’s nothing you can do.
Or matrix which is far more modern and user friendly than IRC.
Always easy to say this in hindsight.
IRC is considered unsafe too to a certain degree with pirating folks.
Also let me emphasize this: for every discord server shut down like this, there are 100+ servers with almost the same purpose that still exist and will continue to for at least the next 3y.
If you are doing development as a hobby, you just don’t have the time to use a different system, get used to that system, and then critically convince everyone else to go there too. Just look at Lemmy, I want it to be great as well but we have to accept that a few tiny steps more in the day to say usability of a system can be the difference between Twitter and Mastodon. And before ppl are saying “well Twitter was there longer”, sure but that doesn’t mean we cannot see the trend for growth that does or doesn’t exist.
Also let me emphasize this: for every discord server shut down like this, there are 100+ servers with almost the same purpose that still exist and will continue to for at least the next 3y.
you completely missed the point here:
the issue that those aren’t around NOW, the issue is that they WILL inevitably disappear eventually and every shred of knowledge platformed there will be irretrievably lost to the void.
discord is a black hole for information:
it sucks information in and deletes it from existence.
that’s why it’s bad.
the time frame doesn’t really matter here.
the issue that those aren’t around NOW, the issue is that they WILL inevitably disappear eventually and every shred of knowledge platformed there will be irretrievably lost to the void.
That’s still not really the purpose of discord, and I think you have actually missed the point. It’s not an informational archive, it’s a tech support line, and oftentimes one which can be used to improve the FAQ and documentation, which is usually found on GitHub or independently hosted, and is usually light enough in weight that it can just be copy pasted anywhere or even included in software. For much of these kinds of software, creating an incredibly comprehensive and well-organized FAQ isn’t as large of an up-front priority as mashing bugs. Of that use case, what strikes you as better, the app that everyone already uses, or IRC?
Not easily searchable, only solves the problem of the user who is currently being interacted with, and on top of that a forum does everything you mentioned but better because it is indexed in the web, meaning the next person with that problem will probably find the forum post before they contact you. No one is taking these discord chats and updating FAQs with them, and if they were, they could save that time by just having a forum that is indexed by search engines. IRC isn’t the best option, but it limits corpo takedowns like this so at least what you have doesn’t randomly get nuked one day. Altogether, moving from forums to discord is a massive downgrade and much information will be lost in the Discord Exodus that will come with time as the company consumes its users for the shareholders.
No one is taking these discord chats and updating FAQs with them
Why do you think this is, though? This really hasn’t been my experience, people are usually pretty quick to add shit to the FAQ if it actually comes up ime.
You’re also relying a lot, ironically, on Google, when you advocate for using search engines as a repository for forums. Google is not that good anymore, and most forums don’t come up. For a niche software, do you think the specific forum for that software would actually come up 99% of the time, or would the results just be flooded by a bunch of youtube tutorials and posts to random subreddits and other forums about irrelevant shit that you weren’t looking for? If you were even lucky enough to get results in the first place, that is. Partially this is due to things moving to discord, but partially it’s due to Google having an effective monopoly on search engining.
If you’re just going to like, go to a forum and use the forum’s internal search. One, it probably sucks because they always have these stupid idiot rules like no common words and it has to be in a range of 4-40 characters and no symbols, shit like that, which sucks. But also, you can do the same thing with discord and just navigate to the web version and then just look up what you wanted to find on the chat logs and read an old conversation. They seem functionally pretty similar in that respect.
Moderating a forum to protect against random people spamming you with CSAM attacks is also more time-consuming for a small developer, and it’s also time consuming to redirect people to previous threads when they inevitably come in and post shit that’s already been asked about, which is also going to breed probably a more insular culture than discord, as impossible as that might seem. Again, you’re also waiting like 2 days for a response, and this is especially stupid when you’re dealing with a back and forth, because not everyone is going to put in the effort to present their problems as thoroughly as possible and present you with like an actual bug report or screenshots or anything. They might not even know what to search for or ask about, and then they’re completely fucked. It’s easier to manage discord because of it’s more active nature.
Basically, the problem is this: Forums put more responsibility and onus on the users to adequately present their problems in a more easily parsable format, and better search for solutions to their own problems. It’s not a mystery, then, why people might prefer to use discord, in my mind.
That’s not what discord is for if you are doing anything where a big corporation wants to muscle you around.
The lack of intelligence is thinking you can build a grey zone project in discord. It’s like saying you want to build a house but don’t want to pour a foundation. Like, good for you, focus on windows and paint, but you’re not gonna get anywhere.
Easy quick and dirty are not acceptable when you are trying to build emulation software based on the products of a very litigious international corporation
That’s what discord is for, an easy, quick and dirty community aggregate
and thats also the reason why this project is now gone…
also you are pretty much “paying” with all you information and since they started heavily monetizing Discord you will pay even more as they soon will start to sell you conveniences or essential features. Also Tencent you know, which is pretty much like Nestlé, so it should be avoided.
Not for a minute, no.
Creating a channel on freenode takes seconds
I will say this, if you are a Lemmy user, sure probably.
But I did a simple websearch for “how to set up a freenode server.” The very first 3 things I saw (what fits on the screen) were a page full of syntax, a 13 minute YouTube video, and a page where the first thing that’s written is literally “Internet Relay Chat is a difficult thing to get used to, especially for people who were born into this world of full graphical interfaces and messaging web apps that handle user interaction seamlessly.”
For the average user, creating a channel does not “take seconds” if you need proof, discord. Its popular because it is so easy to use and the numbers back that up
Uhm, freenode already exists, you don’t have to set up another server just to create a channel. There are clients that are embeddable into webpages as well, so joining an existing channel could be as simple as opening a page for a new user.
Otherwise it’s just install a client, select freenode and join the channel.
I challenge you to find a non tech savvy person who can do this In under 10 minutes.
Lemmy is absolutely an echo chamber of the tech minded, you have to remember most people wouldn’t be able to even get on this platform because that “little bit of effort” is way too much for them
Lol everybody did this in the '00s and '10s. It’s literally “copy this text in that field”.
Stop treating people like idiots.
Huh, I thought it was just a chat room to get to know people.
Is it wrong to seek for online friends in discord?
I think you just need to know what you are getting into.
It’s a private company, it’s closed to sourced, they capture and monetise your data.
For people who value transparency and privacy, there are better options. This emulator project, should have known better than to use is.
aaalll of that being said, it’s very popular and if you are not concerned by any of the points raised in this who threads, it’s a good place to meet people to chat about Warcraft or whatever your thing is.
Just be aware that any thing your write, effectively belongs to them forever.
Yeah, tbh I am only using it because lots of people do not want to get off discord.
What I hate most about this is how they now moved to Rocket Chat.
Come on people. Use a forum. Get the message, finally. Do it!
I’m pretty sure most of people who mainly use discord as their main social apps probably never touched forum-based internet.
Hosting your own forum is also better as you (the owner of the site) can still retrieve the msgs as long as you still have the access to the host server (so you can back them up in case shutting down, then going to resurfacing later).
Not to mention using discord is already risking yourself because of their shitty policy.
What’s a safe way to host a site without anyone being able to track it to you?
I’ll explain it in layman’s terms…
- There is always a price (inconvenience) for secure-ness in online world.
- There’s 2 option to host a forum,
- You can use service like forum hoster or rent a VPS (so you can setup your own server although not self-hosting).
- Self-host yourself (this one a bit tricky if you aren’t prepared).
- Learn some good basic OpSec habit (eg. Never use same password, Never put your personal detail in your active directory especially on your site source document, use 2FA and so on).
- Learn to spot a phising or malicious link and never to randomly click random link in an email (in times when someone tried to social engineering you).
- Use reputable service provider if you are not going to self-host yourself.
- If you happen to self-host, make sure to check your open ports and secure them. Bots always probing any site in the world!
- For some reason if you’re going to run sketchy stuff, never use your real credential. This point may not apply on your region as it depends on your local law.
Hm not really sure this answers what I mean. If you are hosting a site, how do you stop corps demanding your name from the hosting provider and going after you?
Sadly for that matter it is more to the legal area.
For identity they can catch you either from email or the payment info. For email you can make one easily, but for payment search a provider that accept virtual (credit) card, or get something that accept crypto wallet.
Yeah, online exposure can point you sooner or later depending how motivated the party that seek you.
try [email protected] as I’m not 100% on this stuff
but basically:
some third party hosts let you sign up anonymously with an anonymous email etc.
Only ever connect to the server host via VPN
Get a domain with anonymous WHOIS protection
Stick it all behind a reverse proxy
Technically Nintendo or whoever could demand your proxy/host to stop doing business with your account, but they won’t have enough personal info to go beyond that and you can just rehost it under new info.
How would you pay for the hosting without being exposed?
I make lots of use of discord. That does not mean I prefer it to forum style for communication - discord just suits well for one-off joke-y talk
Maybe in my message seems to focus solely on discord for putting the blame… The problem nowadays is that mostly these “devs” share/upload/host their releases in Discord which means you do use Discord’s CDN to host their files. Another common complaint of these practices is that you need to join their server in order to just download relevant files which makes it infuriating if you stumbles across these practices often. For example I joined 8 different discord servers just to download a software/binary/release, why can’t just put the release on something like Mediafire, Google Drive, Megaupload or perhaps sourceforge.
I do understand Discord is communication platform but most of time some people are too lazy to manage stuff so what happen is that everything is hosted in single place as such Discord.
Wait, wtf. People literally post helpful resources and artifacts on discord, and nowhere else? Huh. Just as I thought it is impossible to go lower
Internet is really wide and open if you know direction :)
Even libgen (Library Genesis) still provide IRC as one of option to download ebook from their catalog.
FMHY and Internet Archive is a good entry point if you want to search anything.
And it’s a million times better for people trying to troubleshoot.
1 forum post can solve many problems, rather than having to have each person ask in a support chat that’s not searchable.
Technically Discord is trying to solve this with their threads feature, but I’ve found either the server owners don’t force it or the users don’t use it. Either way, it sucks.
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Can’t find the answer via a search engine though. You first have to find out where to look for the answer, before you can ask it.
The threads/forum feature on discord is just awful. Topics get buried and I think the general ethos of discord encourages people to just spam in the chat channels rather than wait in a forum for help.
They need to be using an encrypted platform hosted in a country out of reach of Nintendo
Not platform. Protocol.
Semantics, given the scope and intention of my comment
It’s so goddamn easy to set up a basic forum site for a few bucks a month, and it’s not like there aren’t hundreds of options for file sharing as well.
The Xbox and PSP modding forums were where I used to hang out before Reddit, a well-designed and run forum is so much better than trying to basically make a website out of a chat room.
I think most of those old forums are gone now.
Still not the point of a live-chat application. The use case is not the same as a forum. You want an archive where everything is well-organized and most questions have already been answered. Discord and other live chat services are more like live tech support, to fill the gap between the raw technical documentation found in GitHub, and the just getting started guide or FAQ, which are usually lightweight enough that they could be posted anywhere. Discord doesn’t exist to be an archive that holds all the knowledge, discord exists so that when you open an app, you can go in, ask a couple questions, and hopefully someone will get to you in a couple minutes, at most, rather than in a couple days.
I hope Nintendo is able to make emulation illegal once and for all and end all this. People really shouldn’t be allowed to run whatever software they want, they should only be allowed to run Microsoft Windows and the fun games they include on the bonus disc
You got me in the first half
3D Pinball: Space Cadet for life.
Think you forgot the /s
/s is for cowards! I will never!
They trust people’s intelligence
They really shouldn’t…
You almost had me 🤣
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What exactly are you referring to? Matrix?
There’s also IRC
How is IRC decentralized?
Because everyone can spin up their own irc server. It’s not federated though.
irc is booring and dated
(even though it’s much more robust than matrix and does not suffer from desyncs and stuff)
does not suffer from desyncs
Not entirely true. IRC can have network splits (I believe they were referred to as netsplits if I remember correctly) where one network can drop out. You can notice this when you see like 50+ people leave a channel at the exact same time because the network they were on disconnected, it’s kind of interesting imo lol but also I’m a nerd so maybe that’s why I find it interesting.
it’s not as big of an issue as on matrix.
stuff can desync and the server has to decide which state is canonical, dropping out some messages
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I know. It would be so fucking cool. Oh well.
Just learned about Revolt.chat. It looks to have great potential. It’s basically a Discord clone.
Revolt is promising in that it’s trying to be a direct Discord clone, but it’s also being made by one person as a passion project, and it sounds like it’s their first time doing a project of this size. Last time I checked, encryption was not even implemented in it yet.
Matrix is distinctly different from Discord, but it’s certainly more mature and featurefull as well.
I just had a KDE/Gnome flashback from reading your comment.
Couldn’t agree more. Revolt is still in it’s infancy, but it has great potential.
Personally I don’t trust it. Don’t really have any reason not to but it just feels eh to me. Just use matrix
I guess if you like matrix thats cool, but I did just do a quick google and it looks like their clients and server backend are all open source (AGPL-3) and self-hostable so I wouldn’t say there’s much to distrust.
Matrix is great at what it does, but it’s not a replacement for Discord imho.
Until ten years ago we used TeamSpeak for voice chat, IRC and forum for text. You can host all of them yourself. Today we have the fediverse and matrix. The problem is that kids get caught by the likes of tiktok and discord (because they are easily accessible with no other requirements than a phone or pc) and they can’t get away from them.
And we could call it… XMPP! Maybe that’s too nerdy… What about Jabber?
What would it be called?
Email!
Datcord?
There is also Jami, if you want to just chat with friends
Man fuck Nintendo at this point. WE ARE ALLOWED TO EMULATE, GET FUCKED
I dead ass downloaded and set up yuza the second I heard it was shutting down
I had the guide open on my laptop for so long but ADHD’d and never got it done lol
I’ll reinforce my comment from months ago: I have the latest version of Yuzu, the keys, the firmware, the Linux and Windows versions, and links to ROM sites, and I’ll distribute them forever to whoever asks in my DMs. I packaged them in a simple .zip with easy to follow instructions.
That said, why simply not use Ryujinx? Even on the Steam Deck performance is very good nowadays. Super Mario Wonder plays at 60 FPS on the Deck (though you need to enable a very simple mod that disables some weird function the game runs, otherwise it drops to 30 FPS all the time). In fact, for AMD GPUs, you’re doing yourself a huge favor by going Ryujinx over Yuzu and derivatives.
Ryujinx is solid, accurate and well known, it’s a trusted emulator. The Yuzu forks are unknown, managed by non experienced people (one was quite literally created by a teenager with zero coding knowledge) and extremely ephemeral.
Ryujinx runs very poorly on older cpus like ryzen 3200G, I played ToTK fine on Yuzu, but on ryujinx the game becomes a slideshow, I also can’t get 60fps on Princess Peach with it.
Yeah Ryujinx is in C# Unity so it has its limits. They wrote Yuzu mostly in C++ so while it tended to be buggy it performed way better.
Hey, Kadu! It’s so good to see you again! I have been using the yuzu zip you sent me, and have been playing the hell out of some of my games. I just wanted to say thank you so freaking much, from the bottom of my heart! 🙏
Thanks for the very kind comment. Happy to hear you’re enjoying Yuzu :)
Ryujinx is for perfect emulation, as in it aims to completely replicate how the Nintendo Switch works. While Yuzu is an emulator that aims for better performance than the Switch while playing Switch games.
You correct in the statement Ryujinx aims for accuracy and does not implement certain performance workarounds Yuzu did. However, your comment is exaggerated. Even Ryujinx isn’t a cycle accurate emulator, nowhere close.
Yeah, it is kind of exaggerated, though the reason people preferred Yuzu was this.
I’m still pretty solid with my Yuzu install so I’ve no need to move to Ryujinx for now, but assuming they avoid Ninty’s legal team I’ll likely pick up Ryujinx when I need a fresh steamOS install and/or Ryujinx surpasses Yuzu’s compatibility in a game I wanna play
Ryujinx don’t works on android. So also not on the Odin 2 Pro as an example. that’s why (for me).
Why 👏 is 👏 every 👏 word 👏 padded 👏 by 👏 emoticons 👏 ?
I💪D😉K🎉My🤔Sister🎃Showed💤Me💅A🌌TikTok🙇Like🦮This🍄One🧩Time
I misread that and thought you were d*cking your sister.
You’re not alone, bud. You see what you want to see, I suppose. /j
They are emoji. Emoticons are these things :( :)
༼ つ ◕_◕ ༽つ
That one looks like a gorilla ate a ghost.
This Kong… has a spooky face
You’ve never seen someone clap between every word trying to get their point across?
I have, but the clapping made me think their point wasn’t well thought out.
👏 Your👏 opinion👏 is👏 irrelevant.👏
And yours even moreso
Notopbutok
Never your granny clapped between words while shouting some order or rule?
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Discord is the antithesis to free web. Stop using it. I won’t join any community using discord.
Oh yeah, and fuck Nintendo
I started using Discord because Skype was pissing me off. Now, Discord starts to piss me off with their bullshit. I’m just too tired to move to yet another platform that will start sucking once it’s grown bigger. I hate this “social media” focus on every little fucking thing. This stupid “we are building a community” garbage should die.
Maybe it’s time for me to burn everything down and go live in the woods. I don’t particularly resonate with people anyway.
You’ve touched on the cycle of enshittification. Step 1, everything is free and wonderful. Step 2: milk those customers for money.
The solution is to favor and support services which take capitalism out of the equation. It might cost a little bit, but I think a few small donations can go a long way.
Yea, I immediately stopped using it after the CEO’s horrifying speech at the “Protecting Children Online” hearing.
Could you (or someone) elaborate on that first point there?
It’s a closed system owned by a single company. If you provide data or information there, the company owns the data, other people can’t find the data using search engines and they would need an account to access the data. Imagine the internet is owned by a single company and they could sell, change, censor, delete restrict access to or use the information in means you cannot predict.
It’s a closed ecosystem. What else is there to say?
CompareContrast with IRC, Matrix or XMPP.So, it’s the lack of admin rights? Inability to decide your own sitewide TOS, lack of privacy from Discord admins, possibility of getting shut down, that’s what they meant?
(I’m not familiar with those other platforms)
None of those details really matter.
What matters for the point of this argument is the simple fact that Discord is owned by the company Discord Inc.
That includes all of the servers and everything on them.
Imagine if ALL OF THE INTERNET was owned by Google …
So the worry is of a surveillance state?
More than that. They own the content and relationships and can use them in ways you cannot predict. LLMs gobble up human produced content because we entrusted it to corporations. What hit hardest for me was when Facebook published a study where they found they could influence users attitude by prioritizing certain posts in their feeds.
Imagine it. Corporations owning your relationships and using them to get a profit out of you
Good discord is trash.
Even beyond the point of “using discord”. Nintendo is reaching harassment levels of assholism. Are they doing even worse that with Gaty Bowser?
They should just spin up their own Lemmy instance
Yeah, and a Matrix instance
They don’t really need a chat though, do they? For their purpose of user-interfacing development and tracking, a forum would be much more useful when coupled with a code hosting system, no?
Can do bug reporting/tracking and development through the latter, while the former allows discoverable FAQ, dev-to-user and user-to-user support. With chat, the last point is just about impossible plus it’s not discoverable.
I don’t know man, I’m not a doctor. They just had a Discord already so I assume they wanted one.
let me just spin up a subreddit instead and … WHY DOES THIS KEEP HAPPENING?
That’s the extra funny part, their subreddit is rock solid since they had it a fair while ago.
Why is this much of this a problem for them—discord shouldn’t be an essential piece of the puzzle for an emulator project
Potentially completing someone’s lemmy bingo card here, but it’s relatively easy to self-host any tools you need
You all should have stayed on IRC
You all should have stayed on IRC
You’re not wrong, but also, it’s way too complicated for the regular person to use. A better UX is needed.
People downvoting you don’t seem to remember the whole “messages aren’t delivered while you’re not online” thing
hostserv
TIL that typing in a username, server address and hitting ‘Connect’ is a bad UX.
GUI > CL. 😇
I get the testicular fortitude that someone has to have to make that kind of comment here on Lemmy, that has very hardcore Linux tech-based audience, but still, the general electronics using public would agree with what I’m saying.
TIL that typing in a username, server address and hitting ‘Connect’ is a bad UX.
UX is more than just a single login.
I used to on irc when i was 10 fucking years old. You type.in the serve and then type #before the room you want to use.
Did they put lead back in gasoline when i wasn’t looking or something?
I used to on irc when i was 10 fucking years old. You type.in the serve and then type #before the room you want to use.
Did they put lead back in gasoline when i wasn’t looking or something?
We used to fly on planes by laying stomach down on the wing. Didn’t make it the best way to fly though.
The UX of any process/device gets improved over time, and adapts to the generation that is using it.
Would the newest gens even know what a command line prompt even is at this point?
Discord is a shit, always was shit. Shitty platform, shitty (electron) apps.
