WASHINGTON, D.C. – After narrowly backing Israel’s military action in Gaza in November, Americans now oppose the campaign by a solid margin. Fifty-five percent currently disapprove of Israel’s actions, while 36% approve.

      • Ensign_Crab@lemmy.world
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        8 months ago

        I’m mocking lemmy’s pro-genocide centrists who immediately call anyone who opposes Netanyahu’s genocide a Russian shill, yes.

          • Ensign_Crab@lemmy.world
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            8 months ago

            Good for you. The centrists who love that the US is supporting the genocide they’ve always wanted scream “Russian” when anyone suggests that the US should stop supporting genocide.

            If you’ve never seen it, try being critical of the US’ support for Netanyahu.

            • ghostdoggtv@lemmy.world
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              8 months ago

              I’ve never been accused of being Russian over my criticism of Nazrael. Did you read the article? It’s about how demographically, the statistical centrists have flipped against the Israelis.

          • NoneOfUrBusiness@kbin.social
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            8 months ago

            They’re against Israel but when you say you’ll vote third party or sit out the vote you get people jumping at your throat and trying to deny reality by telling you to fall in like or we’ll get another Trump term. I don’t see it as much now but it was pretty common even just a couple of weeks ago.

            • Ensign_Crab@lemmy.world
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              8 months ago

              They’re against Israel but when you say you’ll vote third party or sit out the vote

              No. They assume without evidence that opposition to genocide is advocacy for voting third party or staying home or voting for Trump.

              I see it constantly in this community.

              “Biden should stop supporting Netanyahu’s genocide.”

              “You think Trump would be better? Russian Chinese Republican nazi tankie child shill bot!!!”

              • ghostdoggtv@lemmy.world
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                8 months ago

                This is not reality.

                The reality is that if you oppose genocide you get yelled at for continuing to show any support for the Biden campaign despite the fact that his opponent is the genocide-accelerationist candidate.

                And I’m someone who thinks we should defund Israel and then look away for a year or 5.

                Stop trying to have abstract parasocial arguments with entire demographics at once, you’re driving yourself nuts.

                • Ensign_Crab@lemmy.world
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                  8 months ago

                  This is not reality.

                  I’ve been called a russian in this very thread for saying that Biden should stop supporting genocide.

                  • ghostdoggtv@lemmy.world
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                    8 months ago

                    I suppose that’s good enough for you to throw everything else I said out the window. Good morning.

                    Edit: that or those comments were deleted by a moderator, I would invite you to reconsider throwing everything else I said out the window.

            • chuckleslord@lemmy.world
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              8 months ago

              I mean, strategy in FPTP voting systems means that you aren’t voting for a candidate, but against the worst candidate. Is this not the correct understanding? Or does your state have RCV or another alternate voting system?

              Edit: I was downvoted, so maybe I misunderstood something. Could someone explain?

              • NoneOfUrBusiness@kbin.social
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                8 months ago

                The people who decided not to vote for Biden made that decision with this information in mind. The problem is: The enshittification of the Democratic Party relies on the idea that people will hold their noses and vote for the “lesser evil”. This nonsense is how we got Trump in 2016 and how we (or well you I’m not American) are going to get him in 2024. Even if everyone does hold their noses and vote for Trump we’ll get another Trump, then another, then another, until the Dems are putting children back in the mines and saying “but we’re better than the Republicans”.

                If people don’t put their foot down and demand change nothing will happen.

                Is this not the correct understanding?

                It is in very general terms, but when you get down to it it fails miserably, because when both candidates are bad people not all vote for the lesser evil; they just don’t vote. This depresses turnout for the Democrats (Republicans love Trump), when voter turnout is their lifeline. The people who voted for Biden in 2016 are extremely disillusioned with him for many reasons, not the least of which actively perpetuating genocide. This isn’t the recipe for high voter turnout. Essentially saying vote for the lesser evil works until the people you’re calling on say no thanks, and we’re way past that point.

                Edit: Grammar.

              • ghostdoggtv@lemmy.world
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                8 months ago

                FPTP implies you’re voting against all the other candidates, not just against the worst candidate. I don’t think that’s worthy of downvotes though lmao I think state propagandists tend to downvote discussion that actually leads anywhere productive. Sorry.

        • Cryophilia@lemmy.world
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          8 months ago

          I’ve been preaching that centrist stance for a while. You and I have tangled over it before.

          But public sentiment is definitely changing.

          I still think that taking a strong stance against Israel will harm Biden more than help.

          But that might not be true for much longer. If this trend continues, then what you’ve been wrong about before will become right.

          • NoneOfUrBusiness@kbin.social
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            8 months ago

            I still think that taking a strong stance against Israel will harm Biden more than help.

            I actually don’t understand this stance. Pro-Israel people tend to be one of these groups:

            1-People who simply grew up with the propaganda and are still believing it. These lost the majority of democratic voters recently, and they’re only decrease more, but more importantly to them this isn’t an election-deciding issue. I think we can agree that this group doesn’t care as much about Israel as they do about Trump not becoming president. There’s just not much for them at stake.

            2-Zionist Jews. This is usually pointed to as the demographic Biden will lose if he doesn’t support Israel, but the thing is: Jews are less likely to support Israel than the general population. If anything being tougher on Israel might win Biden Jewish votes.

            3-Evangelicals. These are the real deal here, but let’s face it: How many of these were voting democrat to begin with?

            Yes a very large number of people support Israel, but that’s not the number we need to worry about. The really important question is: How many people on either side will take it as an election-defining issue and how likely are those people to lose Biden the election? Given that losing Muslims alone is liable to make Biden lose, and he’s losing (mainly young) progressives on top of that, I think we can see the answer to that question.

            • Cryophilia@lemmy.world
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              8 months ago

              Given that losing Muslims alone is liable to make Biden lose

              How many Muslims do you think there are in the US??

              I think we can agree that this group doesn’t care as much about Israel as they do about Trump not becoming president. There’s just not much for them at stake.

              I don’t necessarily agree. As I said, that’s changing. But yes, the average, ill-informed, centrist voter until very recently would have very strong opinions about Biden not supporting Israel. Maybe not enough alone to sway a vote, but with such close sentiment already it would push a large number over the edge.

              • beardown@lemm.ee
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                8 months ago

                How many Muslims do you think there are in the US??

                Irrelevant question.

                A better question is - How many Muslims are in Michigan?

                And the answer to that is - Enough to flip the state, and therefore the election, to Trump.

                • Cryophilia@lemmy.world
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                  8 months ago

                  Possibly. Another relevant question - how many white centrists in Wisconsin, Nevada, and Arizona?

                  • NoneOfUrBusiness@kbin.social
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                    8 months ago

                    People who would vote for Trump because Biden chose not to support genocide? Probably not many. From what I understand real centrists are a dying breed.

            • frostmore@lemmy.world
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              8 months ago

              so as an asian who supports israel,which group do i belong to?

              bearing in mind i am not in any abrahamic religion and i support Israel military actions against hamas and their supporters but not palestinians.

              • NoneOfUrBusiness@kbin.social
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                8 months ago

                You’re number 1. “Military actions against Hamas and their supporters but not Palestinians” don’t exist in Gaza.

                • frostmore@lemmy.world
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                  8 months ago

                  sounds to me you are a hamas supporter that supports genocide and the oct 7th attack didn’t happen kinda people.

          • Ensign_Crab@lemmy.world
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            8 months ago

            Speak of the devil.

            You managed to go 6 whole sentences without screaming that I’m a Russian because I oppose the genocide you love. I didn’t know you had it in you.

              • Ensign_Crab@lemmy.world
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                8 months ago

                Thank you for illustrating exactly what I was talking about.

                My position has been consistent and clear: Biden should stop supporting genocide. I have never supported voting for Trump and never will. I will be voting for Biden in the general election. Your anger at me is exclusively due to my opposition to genocide. I’m glad that most Americans are better than you.

          • beardown@lemm.ee
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            8 months ago

            Why are you bragging about being wrong?

            Particularly about being wrong about genocide?

      • cerement@slrpnk.net
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        8 months ago

        it’s time for everyone’s favorite game: AIPAC bootlicker or chuuni edgelord?

    • spujb@lemmy.cafe
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      8 months ago

      this comment made me feel the breadth of human emotion in one bite sized sentence, good one sksksksks